Jack Laytons' integrity

[punked]

Then why does he constantly criticize Harper for wanting more private-public partnerships like we already have?

Because he doesn't like the idea that if you are Rich you jump the line bumping poor people to the back.

[RNG]

Because he does not support Private health care. The problem isn't that the clinic exists, if it took only health cards like Layton gave them it would be just fine by Layton the problem is you can pay with a credit card and jump the line. That is it.

So if he paid like the common folk, how come he jumped the line like the articles say?

[Sandy MacNab]

Therapeutic massage? Are you certain about that?

When some men have "certain needs" sometimes they need a "therapist". I've never heard it called "therapeutic massage" before today.

[punked]

So if he paid like the common folk, how come he jumped the line like the articles say?

He paid with his health card look it up.

[CANADIEN]

And that's the Communist Broadcasting Corporation reporting it.

On a page that cannot be found... nor can the Communist Broadcasting Corporation

[Mr.Canada]

Because he doesn't like the idea that if you are Rich you jump the line bumping poor people to the back.

When has Harper said anything even remotely close to that situation since becoming PM?

We need to rejig our healthcare system no matter how much no one wants to admit it. The current rate of is currently unsustainable for very much longer. Currently Canada spends $500 Billion a year on health care. Canada GDP is $1.5 Trillion.

We need to find some alternate ways to fund it one way or another. Maybe User fees is a good option. All of your Dr. and hospital vists would be added up and added to your income tax or perhaps cash up front or you don't see a Dr.

I don't know what but something needs to be done if nothing is done we'll see more services cut from being covered by our healthcare.

[Hydraboss]

He paid with his health card look it up.

Which is exactly what has been proposed by groups in Alberta, but no....the Libs and NDP go on the news with "private healthcare! private healthcare! evil conservatives and their private healthcare!"

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

[Mr.Canada]

The Layton NDP is running out of integrity. Fish stinks from the head down.

[punked]

When has Harper said anything even remotely close to that situation since becoming PM?

We need to rejig our healthcare system no matter how much no one wants to admit it. The current rate of is currently unsustainable for very much longer. Currently Canada spends $500 Billion a year on health care. Canada GDP is $1.5 Trillion.

We need to find some alternate ways to fund it one way or another. Maybe User fees is a good option. All of your Dr. and hospital vists would be added up and added to your income tax or perhaps cash up front or you don't see a Dr.

I don't know what but something needs to be done if nothing is done we'll see more services cut from being covered by our healthcare.

You think we spend 33% of our GDP on Health care? Seriously people keep saying the NDP are bad with numbers but it seems like we are the only ones who know the numbers. We spend roughly 11-13% of our GDP on healthcare by 2031 it is projected to be around 19% then the Boomers die off and we go back to 12-13%.

The question is are Canadians ready to rid out the next 20 years and pay more so their parents and grand parents are taken care of. Cut back with out change so our system crumbles and we all suffer, or change to what you suggest. I believe those to be the choices we can have that discussion if you want. However lets not through around numbers that make no sense please.

[Hydraboss]

Mr. Canada,

If I'm not mistaken, Charles A posted in the other thread about Layton and the massage parlor that there were to be no other threads on this topic. Are you just too stupid to understand something so simple?

I am far, far from a socialist but even I'm getting sick of your childish fucking attacks on this "issue". Grow up. Why don't you contain it to the one thread that has been allowed to survive (and I don't know why at that)? There's partisan, and then there's juvenile. Guess which one this thread falls under?

[punked]

Which is exactly what has been proposed by groups in Alberta, but no....the Libs and NDP go on the news with "private healthcare! private healthcare! evil conservatives and their private healthcare!"

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

I agree if you are recommended to a private/public clinic by your doctor you wouldn't know the difference when you went in. However you would if we went that model and poor people were left in line while rich people jumped ahead.

[RNG]

On a page that cannot be found... nor can the Communist Broadcasting Corporation

This is the second time I have had a link copied from a secondary link not work on this site. So I will copy and past from the CBC article.

NDP Leader Jack Layton, who has campaigned as a defender of public health care, is answering questions regarding a hernia surgery he had at a private clinic in the 1990s.

Layton had the operation at the Shouldice Hospital in the Toronto suburb of Thornhill while he was a Toronto city councillor.

But Layton told the Canadian Press he wasn't aware the clinic was a private facility.

"It's just part of the system," Layton said in an interview. "The doctor says, 'Go there.' You pay with your (Ontario health) card. It never occurred to me (it was) anything other than medicare, which it is.

"I can tell you now, if my doctor ever refers me anywhere, I'll ask him that question. It never occurred to me at the time. It wasn't a controversy at the time. It wasn't something on one's mind."

Layton stressed that the Shouldice facility is a not-for-profit facility that has been part of the Ontario medical system for decades

He said the surgery was well publicized at the time and that he has not been trying to hide his operation at the clinic.

"This was no secret, believe me," he said. "Heck, [Toronto] Mayor [Mel] Lastman came to visit me there. Every family I knew, every middle-aged man that ever ran into a hernia, went to Shouldice. It's part of the system."

Earlier in the campaign, Layton said he would not go to a private clinic nor would he send a loved one to a private clinic, even if he could get faster treatment.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/story/canadavotes2006/national/2006/01/12/layton-surgery060112.html#ixzz1L3cHV4Kv

The link works this time.

Edited May 1, 2011 by RNG

[Smallc]

Currently Canada spends $500 Billion a year on health care. Canada GDP is $1.5 Trillion.

That's not true. Canada spends closer to $200B on healthcare, and over $50B of that comes out of pocket.

[Hydraboss]

I agree if you are recommended to a private/public clinic by your doctor you wouldn't know the difference when you went in. However you would if we went that model and poor people were left in line while rich people jumped ahead.

Got a news flash for you...I'm definitely not "poor" and when my wife nearly died last year, I would have walked over the bodies of "the poor" to get her in as soon as I could. And I did. She's a nurse and I pulled every string in book and called in favors that have taken me years to earn. She jumped so far over the queue that the poor bastards waiting in line couldn't even see her. We jumped every line for surgery. Every line for imaging and tests. Every line for surgical rounds and specialists. I don't fucking care about "the poor" or anyone else when it's my family at risk.

If you disagree, you've never had anyone you love in that condition.

[TTM]

We need to rejig our healthcare system no matter how much no one wants to admit it. The current rate of is currently unsustainable for very much longer. Currently Canada spends $500 Billion a year on health care. Canada GDP is $1.5 Trillion.

The unsustainability in our system, and in most systems around the world, is due to rising drug costs more than any other factor. Rejigging the private/public portions of the system isn't going to help that.

[Mr.Canada]

Mr. Canada,

If I'm not mistaken, Charles A posted in the other thread about Layton and the massage parlor that there were to be no other threads on this topic. Are you just too stupid to understand something so simple?

I am far, far from a socialist but even I'm getting sick of your childish fucking attacks on this "issue". Grow up. Why don't you contain it to the one thread that has been allowed to survive (and I don't know why at that)? There's partisan, and then there's juvenile. Guess which one this thread falls under?

I didn't read his post. I don't read every post in every thread. This thread is about Laytons integrity not about the parlor incident. He can delete it if he choses to.

Now you want MLW to censor the threads because you don't like the behavior of a politician?

If it's in the news we should discuss it.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Mr.Canada

[Smallc]

Which is exactly what has been proposed by groups in Alberta,

I don't see how that's correct. The system allows for that. What it doesn't allow for is out of pocket pay. Privatize whatever you want, just make sure everyone has equal access to it.

[Smallc]

If you disagree, you've never had anyone you love in that condition.

I have, but they got the treatment they needed when they needed it.

[punked]

Got a news flash for you...I'm definitely not "poor" and when my wife nearly died last year, I would have walked over the bodies of "the poor" to get her in as soon as I could. And I did. She's a nurse and I pulled every string in book and called in favors that have taken me years to earn. She jumped so far over the queue that the poor bastards waiting in line couldn't even see her. We jumped every line for surgery. Every line for imaging and tests. Every line for surgical rounds and specialists. I don't fucking care about "the poor" or anyone else when it's my family at risk.

If you disagree, you've never had anyone you love in that condition.

If your wife was dying she jumps to the very front of our lines. Please don't pretend this is not the situation in our great nation.

[CANADIEN]

This is the second time I have had a link copied from a secondary link not work on this site. So I will copy and past from the CBC article.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/story/canadavotes2006/national/2006/01/12/layton-surgery060112.html#ixzz1L3cHV4Kv

The link works this time.

And no evidence that he engaged in queue jumping.

[Mr.Canada]

If your wife was dying she jumps to the very front of our lines. Please don't pretend this is not the situation in our great nation.

I agree with you smallc. Anyone in great need of service should get it immediately regardless of ones queue position.

if that is in terms of private or public Doc's performing the operation. That Canadians life should be saved by any means necessary.

We need more Private - public partnerships to relieve the pressure and hardship on Canadians and their loved ones.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Mr.Canada

[Hydraboss]

I have, but they got the treatment they needed when they needed it.

Well, let me tell you this. If I hadn't done what I did, she'd be dead. The doctors told me in very clear words. I will NEVER trust a loved one's life to "the system" and "fairness". Ask a nurse that does what my wife does...people who do nothing but trust "the system" gather around a bed right before they turn everything off. Constantly.

[Guest American Woman]

[...] She's a nurse and I pulled every string in book and called in favors that have taken me years to earn. She jumped so far over the queue that the poor bastards waiting in line couldn't even see her. We jumped every line for surgery. Every line for imaging and tests. Every line for surgical rounds and specialists. [...]

I think anyone who doesn't believe this happens, that there's no line jumping and everyone is treated the same in Canada, is hopelessly naive.

[Smallc]

Well, let me tell you this. If I hadn't done what I did, she'd be dead. The doctors told me in very clear words.

That's unfortunate. Sometimes, the system slips. In this province though, emergency situations are generally handled quite well. I know that's something that Alberta and Quebec have problems with at times though.

[Hydraboss]

If your wife was dying she jumps to the very front of our lines. Please don't pretend this is not the situation in our great nation.

I'm not pretending shit. I've lived it for the last 14 months. Initial emergency surgery is a no-brainer, but all the expensive follow-up is metered out as the medical department sees fit. I had to bring an intensivist over from another hospital (friend of my wife's) to get certain tests and procedures done. Did you know that if someone were to attain a patient id number and accidentally send it to another medical professional in another hospital in Alberta, there would be the ability to have department heads in other facilities review the case asap (unofficially of course) instead of the attending doctors having to wait a month or two for a consult? Apparently it would also allow a surgical specialist to look at an entire case file, surgical notes and test imaging. So I've heard.

If my wife had waited for the first consult, she would have died in the process. Wonder how many of "the poor" can say the same thing?