Health Care

[willy]

don't think there would be very many earning that 87,000 figure. As we are now paying any continuing medical education; why would any remain at that level unless they are inept?

They are not union workers or leveled managers. They get paid fee for service minus expenses.

The highest paid physicians are a hand full of very specialized surgeons. They can make up to $500 thousand a year. But we are talking 50 out of 7000 physicians.

The education you talk of is a couple a conferences with subsidized travel expenses. Not exactly the lottery. Many don't have time to even participate in the program.

ceasar you need to get a new premise, this one seem to be very flawed.

[Big Blue Machine]

Why should Ottawa tell the provinces where to put the new health care money? One shoe size fits all won't work. That's simple.

Paul Martin should put his money where his mouth is!

[caesar]

quote (fraser institute); " The problems in healthcare and education have little to do with how much the BC government spends but rather with how it spends those dollars.”

For example, Canada as a whole already ties with Iceland for having the highest level of healthcare spending of all industrialized countries that offer universal access. “In exchange for that largesse, we perform relatively poorly for access to doctors and technology, experience worsening waiting times, and have middle of the road health outcomes,” Clemens points out."

That is why we need federal government controlling where the money goes; Why give it to the provinces that will only fund their rich doctor friends; the money needs to go where it is needed by people the most; stop long wait times for treatment. This is costing us more money by allowing the disease or condition to worsen thereby requiring more expensive and prolonged treatment. Plus the costs in pain and suffering to the patient along with a poorer outcome for their health or survival.

Many people awaiting tratment for injuries are unable to work. That means they will not be contributing to out tax base and will probably need financial help be it EI or welfare.

[caesar]

Eureka; do not believe that any newspaper report will give you the full story. That does not really make one that well informed. Most of our newspapers, television stations, and newspapers are controlled by one group: Can-West that has strong right wing ties. They only publish articles and editorials that support their frame of mind. We, unfortunately, need to do a lot of searching and seeking to attempt to get a fair idea of what is going on. We are constantly being manipulated. It is propaganda running amouk.

We need to do something to stop the monopoly of our news sources if we wish to be well informed.

[Guest eureka]

Caesar:

I could not agree more. Media concentration has been a hobby horse of mine and, I think you will have noticed, I claim that there is no democracy without a free and diverse press.

In the case of the information I posted about healthcare, they were no pieces by columnists, but articles by health researchers. One was from an independent who provided the information to the Romanow commission.

I have not seen anything that contradicts either. The posting about "means tested " access is from a reading of the statement authored by Harper and was the official policy of the Reform party. It is also an indicator of the lack of access to the media in this country too. I tried, during the last election, to have this brought to public attention: none would touch it.

[caesar]

Yes, both of our local papers are Can-West and support our provincial government. We also lack an official opposition in this province. Campbell's brother is a columnist in one of the papers.

So much is being changed in this province and we get little or no information.

Besides refusing to allow any Canadian shipyard to bid on building 3 new ferries and sending jobs out of our province. (2000 jobs plus lost tax money from that employment and the shipyards. They are quietly contracting out data management of our health records and 6 other government records to foreign sources. (American) Now they must make laws to attempt to protect our private information from the Patriot Act. Just keep them in our own province; I do not want my personal information to be sent to any foreign country. I have absolutely nothing to hide but it just really goes against the grain. Why are we sending these jobs out of our province; let alone out of the country.

[willy]

Besides refusing to allow any Canadian shipyard to bid on building 3 new ferries and sending jobs out of our province. (2000 jobs plus lost tax money from that employment and the shipyards. They are quietly contracting out data management of our health records and 6 other government records to foreign sources. (American) Now they must make laws to attempt to protect our private information from the Patriot Act.

So where did you learn this information? The Sun or the Province? Yes that would be thier spin.

These outsourced jobs you talk of are the same HR outsourcers that many major corporations are using to manage their affairs. That is right paranoid business people trust them to keep their information private but you see some great conspiracy. Learn a little of the nature of these jobs. Here is one for you, these are the same outsourced jobs that BCHydro is using. Accenture is a world class company offering their services. Do you have a problem with highering the best?

The Washington Group was the local ship builder( and this has nothing to do with health care) and they did not have the resources. Until they admitted that they would have had to built the halls of the ships in China, BC Ferries could not comment. This did go to broad tender and they did not make the short list. The details are not public unless the bidders wish to make them so.

As a smaller bureaucracy has challenges managing health care the part that I see most affable is that you want to hand it over to an even bigger bureaucracy. The Feds couldn't even manage a gun registry let alone something as complex as health care.

Here is a little clue, the private clinics wouldn't survive if this very expensive system we have now was even a little bit timely.

Ceasar, I notice that if you can’t argue the facts you go off topic to muddy the discussion. How about focusing on improving the actual delivery of healthcare?

[caesar]

Willy go troll elsewhere; I have no interest in talking to you.

[Stoker]

caesar, do know what the word Debate means?

Main Entry: 1de·bate

Pronunciation: di-'bAt, dE-

Function: noun

: a contention by words or arguments: as a : the formal discussion of a motion before a deliberative body according to the rules of parliamentary procedure b : a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides

Willy has "matched" your "side" with facts to support his case (and deflate yours), now it's your turn to try and do likewise with facts........Put up or shut-up.....or we might just have to find a bridge for you to live under

[Guest eureka]

Revealing information to the American government seems to have crept in, and, I think, there is nothing more timely for discussion - not debate (according to "your" dictionary definition). Interesting, is it not, how amateur debaters turn to the dictionary and to schoolbook grammar terms to "bolster" their non-arguments.

The Patriot Act requires American firms to turn over information about employees and clients to the government. No legal process; just on demand. We have very great reason to be concerned about the "outsourcing" to American concerns: for that reason even for those who cannot grasp the economic and social impact.

We have reason, also, to question the extent of American ownership of the Canadian economy for the same reason and for those who cannot grasp the economic and social impact of this, too. Under NAFTA. we can do nothing about it.

This outsourcing also is a beachhead for the American Health industry to wreak further havoc on our health system.

[Big Blue Machine]

I think that we should get quality health care. But the people who are get better health care should get it.

[caesar]

Stoker;

what facts from

Willy; just a lot of unsubstantiated rambling claims that mean zilch.

[Stoker]

Willy; just a lot of unsubstantiated rambling claims that mean zilch

I don't know about all of Willy's posts, but it does sound as if you are describing alot of your own posts..........

[caesar]

And yours are always a stroke of genius eh. yeah right.

[willy]

I don't know Caesar, I didn't think I was mean but maybe I do make you feel inadequate.

The information I receive on health care comes from many years working in healthcare. I go to see people speek on health care. I have access to research on the structure and operations of healthcare and I have read Romeno, Kirby and Mazenkowski's reports. Everyone on this forums seems to be up on the media coverage as am I.

I have a fundamental belief that big government creates big government. I firmly believe we need to build into the system incentives to drive service and volume.

I want access to quality healthcare like any of my other right wing friends but I don't think nationalized systems of delivery will ever achieve this.

Why this makes me mean I don't know? But if I ask you to challenge your own premise this is only done because your arguments don't add up. I don't know you so I have no reason to be mean. Try and justify what you say as apposed to just using the old because I said so.