Scotty Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 Seat counts doesn't give you your count either. But if all you have to do is eliminate regions to prove your point, why not just count Alberta and proclaim that 97% of English Canada supports the Tories. The Tories have 143 out of 308 seats. Or 143 of 261 seats if you exclude the separatist areas. That's a majority by my math. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Smallc Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 The Tories have 143 out of 308 seats. Or 143 of 261 seats if you exclude the separatist areas. That's a majority by my math. When a riding votes for the Bloc, that doesn't make them a separatist area. Quote
Scotty Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 When a riding votes for the Bloc, that doesn't make them a separatist area. It does as far as I'm concerned. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Smallc Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) It does as far as I'm concerned. And your concern doesn't make something so. The Bloc, in 2000, got a far lower vote than the Liberals, but got a few more seats. The only reason that we have such a strong Bloc presence is because of the Sponsorship Scandal. It has nothing to do with separatism, it has to do with weakness in the Liberal party. Edited April 19, 2011 by Smallc Quote
Harry Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 Seat counts doesn't give you your count either. But if all you have to do is eliminate regions to prove your point, why not just count Alberta and proclaim that 97% of English Canada supports the Tories. Quote
ToadBrother Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 The Tories have 143 out of 308 seats. Or 143 of 261 seats if you exclude the separatist areas. That's a majority by my math. I love your mathematics. "Well you see, if we just ignore a bunch of seats, it works!" You're point is so strained as to be ludicrous. Quote
Dave_ON Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 The Tories have 143 out of 308 seats. Or 143 of 261 seats if you exclude the separatist areas. That's a majority by my math. So let's keep tally here, we can't count "separatist" Quebec, The French (unless they voted for the CPC) or Toronto, who does actually matter in your opinion? Just those west of Ontario? Quote Follow the man who seeks the truth; run from the man who has found it. -Vaclav Haval-
ToadBrother Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 So let's keep tally here, we can't count "separatist" Quebec, The French (unless they voted for the CPC) or Toronto, who does actually matter in your opinion? Just those west of Ontario? Whatever it takes, it seems, to make his point true. He'll just keep eliminating ridings and provinces until he can say "Look, most Canadians support the Tories!" In an election filled with really stupid talking points, Scotty may just have supplied the stupidest one yet. Quote
Dave_ON Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 Whatever it takes, it seems, to make his point true. He'll just keep eliminating ridings and provinces until he can say "Look, most Canadians support the Tories!" In an election filled with really stupid talking points, Scotty may just have supplied the stupidest one yet. yep, "If we exclude the majority of Canada, the majority of those that remain are Tory supporters" It's all so clear now. Quote Follow the man who seeks the truth; run from the man who has found it. -Vaclav Haval-
Scotty Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) And your concern doesn't make something so. The Bloc, in 2000, got a far lower vote than the Liberals, but got a few more seats. The only reason that we have such a strong Bloc presence is because of the Sponsorship Scandal. It has nothing to do with separatism, it has to do with weakness in the Liberal party. They had a strong presence before the sponsorship scandal. Just as the PQ has a strong presence now. As far as I'm concerned, if you vote separatist you're not Canadian in any meaningful way. You don't consider yourself Canadian. You don't want to be Canadian, and so I'm granting their wish. Edited April 19, 2011 by Scotty Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Smallc Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 They had a strong presence before the sponsorship scandal. Just as the PQ has a strong presence now. They had a dying presence before the sponsorship scandal. In fact, right now, they have about 1/3 Quebecers supporting them, a historic low...and not all of those are separatists. At its core, separatism is at about 1/4 support in Quebec. That's the lowest poll numbers have ever shown it, and that was before the Sponsorship Scandal. The PQ is just a party which happens to advocate for separatism, just like the BQ. People don't only vote for the parties because of that. The PQ has been able to do so well because until yesterday, they hadn't talked about separatism in a long time. Quote
Scotty Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 So let's keep tally here, we can't count "separatist" Quebec, The French (unless they voted for the CPC) or Toronto, who does actually matter in your opinion? Just those west of Ontario? Your smarmy dismissal notwithstanding, it remains true that the Tories own a majority of English Canada's seats. Even if you include the French ridings who consider themselves Canadians the Tories still have a majority. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
ToadBrother Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 Your smarmy dismissal notwithstanding, it remains true that the Tories own a majority of English Canada's seats. Even if you include the French ridings who consider themselves Canadians the Tories still have a majority. The only majority that means a damned thing is the majority of seats in the House. Even if you had some sort of point, well, you wouldn't have a point. It's just some sort of pathetic regional bashing, doubtless to make you feel better about the Tories' incapacity to get a majority government. Blame Quebec... blame Toronto... you're like an Anglo Jacques Parizeau. Quote
cybercoma Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 They had a strong presence before the sponsorship scandal. Just as the PQ has a strong presence now. As far as I'm concerned, if you vote separatist you're not Canadian in any meaningful way. You don't consider yourself Canadian. You don't want to be Canadian, and so I'm granting their wish. You're aware that even the ridings that elect BQ are not separatist. With the FPTP system, you don't need a majority of votes to win the seat, so the majority of voters very well could be federalists. Also, there are many English-speaking Canadians in Quebec, so you can't eliminate all of their ridings. Your point has been thoroughly torn apart in this thread. Just concede that the Conservatives do not have the support of the majority of Canadians. Even if 80% of the votes cast in an election were for the Conservatives, if only 60% of Canadians show up to the polls, you still couldn't say the majority of Canadians support the Tories. Quote
Scotty Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 The only majority that means a damned thing is the majority of seats in the House. Even if you had some sort of point, well, you wouldn't have a point. It's just some sort of pathetic regional bashing, doubtless to make you feel better about the Tories' incapacity to get a majority government. Blame Quebec... blame Toronto... you're like an Anglo Jacques Parizeau. Its been readily acknowledged by a lot of people that it's going to be almost impossible for any party to gain a majority as long as the French continue to vote in their little regional separatist party election after election. Have you somehow MISSED that? So why shouldn't I bash people who vote separatist election after election? Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
ToadBrother Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 Its been readily acknowledged by a lot of people that it's going to be almost impossible for any party to gain a majority as long as the French continue to vote in their little regional separatist party election after election. Have you somehow MISSED that? So why shouldn't I bash people who vote separatist election after election? Maybe you should send some money to the NDP. They seem to be doing a better job of taking on the Bloc than the Liberals or the Tories. Quote
Scotty Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 You're aware that even the ridings that elect BQ are not separatist. With the FPTP system, you don't need a majority of votes to win the seat, so the majority of voters very well could be federalists. Also, there are many English-speaking Canadians in Quebec, so you can't eliminate all of their ridings. Oh bullshit. Many of those ridings, in fact, the majority, vote BQ by a landslide. More than 30 of their 47 seats were won with over 10,000 vote majorities. And there is rarely any kind of vote splitting allowing them in. The tories are too weak for that except around Quebec city and the Liberals too weak outside Montreal. So I'm choosing not to consider those people Canadian. So go cry in a corner cuz I'm so mean. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
ToadBrother Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 So I'm choosing not to consider those people Canadian. So go cry in a corner cuz I'm so mean. It's more along the lines of your opinion being rather irrelevant. Quote
Smallc Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 So I'm choosing not to consider those people Canadian. So go cry in a corner cuz I'm so mean. You don't get to decide that, so your point is absolutely...well...BS. Quote
ToadBrother Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 You don't get to decide that, so your point is absolutely...well...BS. Well, he can decide they aren't Canadians. But it's on the same level as him declaring his feces taste like honey. Quote
Scotty Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 It's more along the lines of your opinion being rather irrelevant. Everyone's opinion here is irrelevant on every subject we talk about. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 You don't get to decide that, so your point is absolutely...well...BS. I do get to decide that. I'm in full control of what I think of people, their beliefs, their behaviour, and how I act towards them. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Smallc Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 I do get to decide that. I'm in full control of what I think of people, their beliefs, their behaviour, and how I act towards them. That's fine for you to decide that for yourself, but A ) it doesn't make it correct (because it isn't) and B ) your point is completely irrelevant. Quote
cybercoma Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 (edited) Its been readily acknowledged by a lot of people that it's going to be almost impossible for any party to gain a majority as long as the French continue to vote in their little regional separatist party election after election. Have you somehow MISSED that? So why shouldn't I bash people who vote separatist election after election? Because we have a parliamentary democracy. Majority governments are not a good thing. It amounts to tyranny in our system. Edited April 19, 2011 by cybercoma Quote
ToadBrother Posted April 19, 2011 Report Posted April 19, 2011 Everyone's opinion here is irrelevant on every subject we talk about. If that makes you feel better about spouting rubbish... Quote
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