Conservative Fantino's campaign in trouble over brewing scandal

[Rick]

So much for that promise of accountability and transparency eh Mr Harper?

Pork barrel politics rears its ugly head once more as Fantino gets his pay off.

Two Conservatives have quit their own riding association in Vaughan north of Toronto, accusing incumbent candidate Julian Fantino and the Conservative government of handing $10 million in public dollars to a private non-profit group involved in a major health-care development.

Richard Lorello, the local Conservative candidate in 2008, says he resigned because a federal grant, announced in March just before the election was called, is earmarked for the Vaughan Health Campus of Care (VHCC), which has two of Fantino's fundraisers as prime backers.

"The optics look really rather strange," said Lorello, "that the same people who helped Fantino are the same people [whose non-profit group is] receiving $10 million in government funds."

Developer Michael DeGasperis is chair and construction insurance man Sam Ciccolini is a director of the VHCC, which is a private, non-profit volunteer group that is involved in developing health-care facilities adjacent to a proposed new provincial hospital. The pair also served as fundraising co-chairs in Fantino's successful November 2010 byelection campaign.

"The VHCC is a private organization ... not for profit," Lorello told CBC. "I think that it's inappropriate that this money was given to a not-for-profit private organization which is primarily made up of prominent individuals who supported Fantino in his campaign."

Read the rest here

[guyser]

So much for that promise of accountability and transparency eh Mr Harper?

Pork barrel politics rears its ugly head once more as Fantino gets his pay off.

Knowing the three of them.....I normally count my fingers after shaking their hand.

Have to watch this one.

[Harry]

We had the AG's report issue yesterday just before the English debate.

Is this another bombshell just before the French debate?

[ToadBrother]

Knowing the three of them.....I normally count my fingers after shaking their hand.

Have to watch this one.

It's hard to know what to make of it yet. On the face of it, it doesn't seem quite right. It certainly isn't the right way for the Feds to be giving out money for building hospitals.

[Harry]

How does a not-for-profit work again?

Is it you pay the CEO and his/her cronies a few million in wages and bonus, etc, and oops, sorry no profits made again this year.

Edited April 13, 2011 by Harry

[ToadBrother]

How does a not-for-profit work again?

Is it you pay the CEO and his/her cronies a few million in wages and bonus, etc, and oops, sorry no profits made again this year.

Look, a certain amount of porkbarreling, whether we like it or not, is going to happen. But if you're going to do it, you should at least try to do it through the proper channels. If the Feds want to give money to build a hospital or a wing of a hospital or whatever, then it should be done via the province in question, which is ultimately responsible for the funding and maintaining of health care facilities.

Maybe this is all above board, but it certainly looks bad, and an election seems a very poor time to have candidates involved in questionable activities.

[TimG]

If the Feds want to give money to build a hospital or a wing of a hospital or whatever, then it should be done via the province in question, which is ultimately responsible for the funding and maintaining of health care facilities.

Why? If a private charity can raise funds to build a healthcare facility then why can't the feds?

[Evening Star]

Don't you think there's a difference between private charities raising private funds and the federal government using tax dollars?

[ToadBrother]

Why? If a private charity can raise funds to build a healthcare facility then why can't the feds?

Well, in large part because the Feds are not in the hospital building business. The provinces are responsible for health care, and the appropriate channel for any funds is via the provinces. The Feds do it all the time for joint provincial ventures.

I'm not necessarily saying there is anything wrong here. There could be other explanations for all of this, perhaps disgruntled members of the riding association looking to kick Fantino and/or his supporters in the rear at the worst possible time. Still, it raises questions, and that's not exactly a good thing.

[Bryan]

Conservatives support not-for-profit healthcare, and that's supposed to be a scandal?

[ToadBrother]

Conservatives support not-for-profit healthcare, and that's supposed to be a scandal?

I don't think where it's going is supposed to be the problem (if there is a problem), it's not directing this via the province. Like I said, I'm getting half suspicious that we may be seeing some ugly riding association politics.

[Harry]

I thought health care was a provincial matter, as that is what Harper keeps saying - what are the federales really up to here?

Edited April 13, 2011 by Harry

[Harry]

Privatizing health care in Vaughan - you think it might become an issue during the French debate tonite. Naw, not a chance.

Edited April 13, 2011 by Harry

[ToadBrother]

I thought health care was a provincial matter, as that is what Harper keeps saying - what are the federales really up to here?

Vote buying.

[M.Dancer]

Privatizing health care in Vaughan - you think it might become an issue during the French debate tonite. Naw, not a chance.

It would be if healthcare was being privatized....but it ain't.

[Battletoads]

CONservative con-men. Nothing here is that shocking if you've been paying attention to Canadian politics since the Cons came to power, or even before they came to power.

[TimG]

CONservative con-men. Nothing here is that shocking if you've been paying attention to Canadian politics since the Cons came to power, or even before they came to power.

You are deluding youself if you believe that any other party is any better.

[ToadBrother]

You are deluding youself if you believe that any other party is any better.

Which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for the Tories. Ever since the Afghan detainee debacle, the Tories have increasingly used the defence "Yeah well, the last guys did it!"

[Tilter]

HOW TO START EACH DAY WITH A POSITIVE OUTLOOK

1. Open a new file in your computer.

2. Name it "Jack Layton".

3. Send it to the Recycle Bin.

4. Empty the Recycle Bin.

5. Your PC will ask you: 'Do you really want to get rid of "Jack Layton?"

6. Firmly Click 'Yes.'

7. Feel better?

GOOD! ----- Tomorrow we'll do "Gilles Duceppe"!

In celebration of any coalition signing, KFC will be issuing a Coalition Bucket. No salad, no fries, just left wings and assholes.

[ToadBrother]

.

Edited April 14, 2011 by ToadBrother

[RNG]

HOW TO START EACH DAY WITH A POSITIVE OUTLOOK

1. Open a new file in your computer.

2. Name it "Jack Layton".

3. Send it to the Recycle Bin.

4. Empty the Recycle Bin.

5. Your PC will ask you: 'Do you really want to get rid of "Jack Layton?"

6. Firmly Click 'Yes.'

7. Feel better?

GOOD! ----- Tomorrow we'll do "Gilles Duceppe"!

In celebration of any coalition signing, KFC will be issuing a Coalition Bucket. No salad, no fries, just left wings and assholes.

Finally, I find a philosopher on this forum. Thank you.

[TimG]

Which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for the Tories. Ever since the Afghan detainee debacle, the Tories have increasingly used the defence "Yeah well, the last guys did it!"

I am not going to defend Tory shenanigans nor get into a debate about who is 'worse'. But people basing their vote on such things are going to be dissapointed no matter who gets in. The best way to deal with these things is a periodic house cleaning. I don't think the Tory shenanigans are at the level where a house cleaning is in order (yet). Edited April 14, 2011 by TimG

[M.Dancer]

HOW TO START EACH DAY WITH A POSITIVE OUTLOOK

1. Open a new file in your computer.

2. Name it "Jack Layton".

3. Send it to the Recycle Bin.

4. Empty the Recycle Bin.

5. Your PC will ask you: 'Do you really want to get rid of "Jack Layton?"

6. Firmly Click 'Yes.'

7. Feel better?

GOOD! ----- Tomorrow we'll do "Gilles Duceppe"!

In celebration of any coalition signing, KFC will be issuing a Coalition Bucket. No salad, no fries, just left wings and assholes.

Two thumbs up

[William Ashley]

How does a not-for-profit work again?

Is it you pay the CEO and his/her cronies a few million in wages and bonus, etc, and oops, sorry no profits made again this year.

The idea of a NFP is that they arn't trying to make money - just run some sort of mission. Like a corporation has goals a NFP is a corporation - but it doesn't try to earn money.

Basically VHCC is tasked with doing the provinces (Ontario's) job in Vaughan.

"The Vaughan Health Campus of Care is a not-for-profit organization established to ensure that new health services in the Vaughan community are coordinated, aimed at a common vision of integration, innovation and excellence in health services delivery and patient care. "

Its pretty much a knock at the Ontario Ministry of Health.

Moreso it is the federal government interfering in provincial constitutional context of the Health Profolio -- pretty big snub if you ask me.

Its not 10 million for health care, it is 10 million to lobby the provincial government for health care.

http://www.vaughanhealthcare.ca/site/about.htm

This is something intergovernmental affairs should be doing, not a private organization - if the federal government wanted to lobby ONtario for healthcare somewhere they could do it through government, it is more or less just an embezzlement of 10 million tax dollars to a private lobby.

WHY NOT JUST PAY 10 MILLION DOLLARS FOR A HEALTH CARE FACILITY DUMBWITS!!!

NOW YOU ARE PAYING 10 MILLION DOLLARS TO TALK ABOUT ONE?

10 MILLION DOLLARS IS ENOUGH TO BUILD THE DAMN THING! WHAT A WASTE OF TAX PAYER DOLLARS!!

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CCgQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arkleg.state.ar.us%2Fhealthcare%2FProviders%2FDocuments%2FFIP%2520Budget%2520Justification%25202010.doc&ei=9HCmTYeQKui40QGJoaXqCA&usg=AFQjCNHTyex3qFw2rrEwDT3fBpv8o83GlA&sig2=Ai7A_OQubuInuNAHz_toiw

For under 5 million dollars they could have built a health center.

Edited April 14, 2011 by William Ashley

[ToadBrother]

I am not going to defend Tory shenanigans nor get into a debate about who is 'worse'. But people basing their vote on such things are going to be dissapointed no matter who gets in. The best way to deal with these things is a periodic house cleaning. I don't think the Tory shenanigans are at the level where a house cleaning is in order (yet).

I think what's happened is that the Tories, constrained by their minority status, cannot get in that much trouble.

I'll say this, and it's a defense of Harper in a way. However honest or ethical he may be (and frankly, to my mind, his biggest problem is some substantial disrespect for Parliament, confusing it with Parliamentarians), he is bound to have at least some members of his caucus who are not nearly so honest, or in the case of Bev Oda, just not very bright. It's inevitable when you have that large a group of people that some are going to be on the shady side. The problem for Harper is in part his own creation. He committed to a more open government, and so every time one of his less honorable subordinates behaves according to their nature, the Opposition will throw it in his face. What's more, his management style in many ways mirrors Chretien's, so I think the complaints that other than a few powerful ministers, much of the government is run from the PMO, rings rather true.

That all being said, it's hard to make out what's happening with Fantino's riding. I'd say the Feds directly giving money to a non-profit to fund a provincial health project is, to say the least atypical. That's not to say anything untoward has been done, but general Federal-provincial etiquette is for the Federal government to pick up the phone and talk to the province in question, because health is, at the end of the day, a provincial area of jurisdiction. At the same time, I'm getting this funny feeling in the pit of my stomach that we're seeing an unusual public display of some internal riding association politics. I don't have any evidence to support it, and certainly no internal knowledge of that riding association, but having to members of a riding association for any party suddenly and publicly announce in the middle of an election campaign that the incumbent MP that they ostensibly back was doing something possibly unseemly with millions of Federal dollars popping into a non-profit hints at some unseen struggle. Unless a riding association is utterly dysfunctional, those internal battles hardly ever find their way to the surface.

I'm withholding judgment on this one, because there's something about this whole thing that just doesn't feel right.

Edited April 14, 2011 by ToadBrother