Will the Harper Government Survive This Week?

[Jack Weber]

I'm not being thin-skinned. I'm pointing out what the rules say. I realize it can be used as short-hand without intending insult, but it has also been used in a very obviously pejorative manner and so it is against the rules. Simple as that. Calling Ignatieff 'iggy' is similarly against the rules. So is misspelling Liberals as 'lieberals'.

The use of 'separatist' or 'socialist' on the other hand, is perfectly valid. As is Tories, if your fingers are lazy.

Stop hiding behind rules and regulations because you're offended at the term "Con's" when describing the Conservative Party of Canada...

It's just lame....

[BornAlbertan]

Then do us a favour and move...

Is that the best you can do? You don't agree so you say "go away"...

What a childish attitude.

[ToadBrother]

Is that the best you can do? You don't agree so you say "go away"...

What a childish attitude.

Childish indeed, probably slightly more than demanding we winnow everything down to two amorphous political parties because all these voices give the poster a headache.

[Jack Weber]

You're right, we should use a politer and more appropriate description, like Right Wing Despisers of Parliamentary Democracy and the Westminster System.

Please add "Contemptuous"!!!

[ToadBrother]

You're right, we should use a politer and more appropriate description, like Right Wing Despisers of Parliamentary Democracy and the Westminster System.

Please add "Contemptuous"!!!

Quite right. I should have said the Right Wing Contemptious Despisers of Parliamentary Democracy and the Westminster System. That's RWCDPDWS for short!

[Jack Weber]

Is that the best you can do? You don't agree so you say "go away"...

What a childish attitude.

I find alot of Albertan's who look longingly to our neighbours to the South kinda...Y'know..Simplistic??

So ya' get what ya' put out...

Usually I simply tell them to zip it,pump the oil,and,make us some money...

So think of it as getting off easy?

[Scotty]

I'm back from my Mr.C assisted vacation...

I'm not in disagreement with Scotty over the seperatist element of any coalition.I did'nt support the idea in '08 because of that.But I don't see how the demands from the Bloc would be any different with Harper leading that coalition than Stephan Dion.They would play thier cards with Harper just like they would have with Dion..

And to think otherwise smacks of pie in the sky partisanship....

Do you really think Dion and the BQ would have the same dynamics as Harper and the BQ?

[Jack Weber]

Quite right. I should have said the Right Wing Contemptious Despisers of Parliamentary Democracy and the Westminster System. That's RWCDPDWS for short!

"Standing Up For Canada!!"

[ToadBrother]

Do you really think Dion and the BQ would have the same dynamics as Harper and the BQ?

So your only defense of the doing business with the Bloc in some formalized fashion is that it be done by a sufficiently tough leader? That seems a strange sort of backing down from "Doing business with Separatists is bad!!!!!"

[Scotty]

Stop hiding behind rules and regulations because you're offended at the term "Con's" when describing the Conservative Party of Canada...

It's just lame....

Well then call me lame. But I don't want the place degenerating into insults, and inflammatory language doesn't help.

YOU might well just be using it as shorthand but clearly, others are not. And with an election in the offing I think you can expect a closer policing of this site by the moderators...

[Jack Weber]

Do you really think Dion and the BQ would have the same dynamics as Harper and the BQ?

I think Mr.Duceppe would have made the same type of demands of Harper to keep his coalitojn together as he would have dion...

And seeing as it has become painfully obvious from the evidence presented by Mr.Harper himself over the last 2 years that he's quite prepared to do whatever it takes to maintain power,I'm quite certain he would inevitably acquiece to almost any demands Duceppe would have made of him...

I also think the idea of coalition governments,in what seems to be the increasing probability of minority governments,is something that should'nt really scare people.

It certainly did'nt scare Mr.Harper in 2004...

[Scotty]

So your only defense of the doing business with the Bloc in some formalized fashion is that it be done by a sufficiently tough leader? That seems a strange sort of backing down from "Doing business with Separatists is bad!!!!!"

Except I didn't say doing business with them was bad. You did, actually.

I said that people were offended by the idea of a troika which consisted of a strong separatist, a strong socialist, and a weak, inept Liberal - or words to that effect.

As you (I believe) pointed out, you can't ignore them since the Quebec people continue to send them to Ottawa, so you have to deal with them on some level.

But I deal with my dog on some level, too. That doesn't mean the dog sleeps in my bed while I sleep on the floor, however.

There's dealing and then there's dealing.

[Jack Weber]

Well then call me lame. But I don't want the place degenerating into insults, and inflammatory language doesn't help.

YOU might well just be using it as shorthand but clearly, others are not. And with an election in the offing I think you can expect a closer policing of this site by the moderators...

OK...

You're lame...

Can I expect you are going to complain about this to said moderators??

I've been told that you do that alot...

[Evening Star]

Reform all but worshipped process. It was a nerdy wonk party through and through.

Ha, while I'm closer to the other end of Canada's ideological spectrum, I did kind of love the idea of a party led by a systems analyst.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Evening Star

[Hydraboss]

OK...

You're lame...

Can I expect you are going to complain about this to said moderators??

I've been told that you do that alot...

This "complaining to the mods" is so fucking juvenile. If someone can't take a little language, they need to go back to pbskids.org. This is an "adult" forum; some of the members need to grow a little thicker skin.

[Scotty]

OK...

You're lame...

Can I expect you are going to complain about this to said moderators??

I've been told that you do that alot...

I think I was the one who told you. Hey, at least I don't hide it.

[Jack Weber]

This "complaining to the mods" is so fucking juvenile. If someone can't take a little language, they need to go back to pbskids.org. This is an "adult" forum; some of the members need to grow a little thicker skin.

Well said...

And this is from an admitted traitor!!!

Note the "Albertan Seperatist" thing...

[Scotty]

I think Mr.Duceppe would have made the same type of demands of Harper to keep his coalitojn together as he would have dion...

And seeing as it has become painfully obvious from the evidence presented by Mr.Harper himself over the last 2 years that he's quite prepared to do whatever it takes to maintain power,I'm quite certain he would inevitably acquiece to almost any demands Duceppe would have made of him...

I also think the idea of coalition governments,in what seems to be the increasing probability of minority governments,is something that should'nt really scare people.

It certainly did'nt scare Mr.Harper in 2004...

I have to admit that Harper has become a lot more of a pragmatist than I'm comfortable with. I am not, in case you're wondering, comfortable with a Conservative-BQ coalition either. But I still think Harper would fare better than Dion. Harper is more of a brinksman, and his rank and file are fare less forgiving of special accommodations for Quebec.

[Jack Weber]

I think I was the one who told you. Hey, at least I don't hide it.

Uh...I can vouch for the fact that you were'nt...

Let's just say I've been forewarned about your complaining...And it was'nt from any moderator...

[Scotty]

This "complaining to the mods" is so fucking juvenile. If someone can't take a little language, they need to go back to pbskids.org. This is an "adult" forum; some of the members need to grow a little thicker skin.

Different posters evidently have different desires of how this site will function. That's perfectly normal, of course. My own desire is for discussion on a somewhat adult basis without snide, petty, stupid, childish insults thrown back and forth. To that end, I do report violations of the site rules. And will continue to do so.

"Adult" to me doesn't involve calling people names.

[ToadBrother]

Except I didn't say doing business with them was bad. You did, actually.

I said that people were offended by the idea of a troika which consisted of a strong separatist, a strong socialist, and a weak, inept Liberal - or words to that effect.

As you (I believe) pointed out, you can't ignore them since the Quebec people continue to send them to Ottawa, so you have to deal with them on some level.

But I deal with my dog on some level, too. That doesn't mean the dog sleeps in my bed while I sleep on the floor, however.

There's dealing and then there's dealing.

At the end of the day any leader of a Coalition is going to have to play mediator between two or more conflicting groups (sometimes in the same party). I agree that, in general, Dion was far too weak, or more to the point, hamstrung by the fact that he had lost the support of his own party, to carry on the role. I also think that Harper would be an ill-suited leader of such a coalition, simply because he's too much the other way, too lacking in a conciliatory tone, too quick to jump to partisan solutions (which is how, I think, he has caused his government so many problems with privilege breaches).

Quite frankly, judging by past behavior, I think Iggy is in fact much better suited to the very difficult role of Prime Minister in a formal coalition. He's not as aggressive as Harper (which is a bad thing in many ways, but very key if one contemplates having to unite multiple parties of very different temperaments and ideologies), and tends in general to be more moderate.

[Jack Weber]

I have to admit that Harper has become a lot more of a pragmatist than I'm comfortable with. I am not, in case you're wondering, comfortable with a Conservative-BQ coalition either. But I still think Harper would fare better than Dion. Harper is more of a brinksman, and his rank and file are fare less forgiving of special accommodations for Quebec.

It called political survival...

If he stuck to being a hardcore NCC Reformist,they'd still be in opposition...And Harper would be back at the NCC blathering about "firewalls"...

Scotty...An honest question...

You seem to line up on the side of organized labour...How do you reconcile the fact that if the NCC types in the Con(servative) party got thier way,labour wise,we would see RTW legislation in this country just like the hardcore Republican states in the US???

The WRAP party has RTW in their platform...That is basically a provincial Reformesque type of party...

Edited March 23, 2011 by Jack Weber

[ToadBrother]

I have to admit that Harper has become a lot more of a pragmatist than I'm comfortable with. I am not, in case you're wondering, comfortable with a Conservative-BQ coalition either. But I still think Harper would fare better than Dion. Harper is more of a brinksman, and his rank and file are fare less forgiving of special accommodations for Quebec.

In which case there would likely not be much chance of a Tory-BQ coalition actually working. The first thing you have to do as the leader of any kind of coalition government is sell your soul for stability. And believe me, there's nothing quite as ugly as having the members of your own party shouting at you at caucus meetings because you gave in to the other coalition partners and shelved key policy points you had made commitments to in the election. A careful analysis of what's going on in the UK should tell both opponents and supporters of formal coalitions all they need to know on that score.

[Scotty]

Uh...I can vouch for the fact that you were'nt...

Let's just say I've been forewarned about your complaining...And it was'nt from any moderator...

Whatever, Jack. I'm pretty sure I've made myself clear in my public posts that I will report infractions of the rules.

[Jack Weber]

At the end of the day any leader of a Coalition is going to have to play mediator between two or more conflicting groups (sometimes in the same party). I agree that, in general, Dion was far too weak, or more to the point, hamstrung by the fact that he had lost the support of his own party, to carry on the role. I also think that Harper would be an ill-suited leader of such a coalition, simply because he's too much the other way, too lacking in a conciliatory tone, too quick to jump to partisan solutions (which is how, I think, he has caused his government so many problems with privilege breaches).

Quite frankly, judging by past behavior, I think Iggy is in fact much better suited to the very difficult role of Prime Minister in a formal coalition. He's not as aggressive as Harper (which is a bad thing in many ways, but very key if one contemplates having to unite multiple parties of very different temperaments and ideologies), and tends in general to be more moderate.

Good point about Iggy...

I never thought of it that way because he seemed so anti-coalition after he was "coronated"...