wyly Posted February 7, 2011 Report Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) What does that have to do with anything. At any rate, some nights I thought I was. you were claiming to playing as well those you listed...for all I know you may be better ..."as good as" If you want technical proficiency, see Yngwie Malmsteen a youtube link would've been nice...here he is in direct comparison with classical style, the 2nd version is technically more dificult the swede is very quick but it's an electric plus he's only plucking away at one string at a time the acoustical is 5 finger plucking,( as well as drumming on some tunes)...However, once the 5 year old can write something equal to Voodoo Chile, then we'll talk.Hendrix wrote that at 5 did he?...plus writing and playing are two completely different talents...When a classical guitar player can write something like Voodoo Chile, then we'll talk... no wait, not fair. Jimmie Page played some classical, Eddie Van Halen plays some classical, Kirk Hammett... and a number of rock stars have had classical training over the years but none can sing with Andrea Bocelli...having done something doesn't mean that they were any good a it...being a star in one genre doesn't make you a star in another...superstar Mary J. Blige looked like an amateur in a duet with Andrea Bocelli at the grammies... Edited February 7, 2011 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted February 7, 2011 Report Posted February 7, 2011 Like I said, music is art, not science! I know everyone is supposed to put Hendrix at the top of the heap, but I never liked his sound -- maybe it was way too self-indulgent and discordant for my tastes. he may have been great but as I stated before I don't know enough to make that call...I didn't care for his music/sound... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
WIP Posted February 7, 2011 Report Posted February 7, 2011 he may have been great but as I stated before I don't know enough to make that call...I didn't care for his music/sound... Let's also keep in mind that we are ranking the best among the pop stars that sold lots of albums. Every so often my son shows me a youtube video of some amazing guitarist or drummer that never made it to stardom or is currently playing in some bar band somewhere, and has to resign himself (or herself in some cases....there are some girls who do some amazing work also) to toiling away in obscurity and having music as a hobby rather than an occupation. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
wyly Posted February 7, 2011 Report Posted February 7, 2011 Let's also keep in mind that we are ranking the best among the pop stars that sold lots of albums. Every so often my son shows me a youtube video of some amazing guitarist or drummer that never made it to stardom or is currently playing in some bar band somewhere, and has to resign himself (or herself in some cases....there are some girls who do some amazing work also) to toiling away in obscurity and having music as a hobby rather than an occupation. agreed, over the years I've seen a few great performers in bars that never made it to stardom despite enormous amounts of talent...some of the best musicians toil away in obscurity as studio musicians... sometimes "greatest ever" really means "best known" or "best marketed" or "most sales"...Taylor Swift has lots of sales and awards but she can't sing a lick...autotune the saviour of crappy talent... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Sir Bandelot Posted February 7, 2011 Report Posted February 7, 2011 agreed, over the years I've seen a few great performers in bars that never made it to stardom despite enormous amounts of talent...some of the best musicians toil away in obscurity as studio musicians... sometimes "greatest ever" really means "best known" or "best marketed" or "most sales"...Taylor Swift has lots of sales and awards but she can't sing a lick...autotune the saviour of crappy talent... Generally the "greatest ever" just means, the one I like the most. me, I've been playin the ol' guitar for over 30 years now. Yeah I strummed a few G chords in my day. Led Zep set the standard template for rock bands with the dazzling dark haired but shy guitarist, and the oh so cute blonde guy who was the frontman. But for me it was Jimmy Page who was the important member of the band. I also liked Pink Floyd. Dave Gilmour was mentor to me. Those bluesy bends, and the big tone. Now I still play guitar, but am more into jazz, like the bebop stylings of Wes Montgomery. I love classical guitar too. When I look back and think about all the styles and guitarists I have enjoyed listening to over the years, I still love all those guys. So "best" is a relative term. There really is no "best". Quote
BubberMiley Posted February 7, 2011 Report Posted February 7, 2011 Pink Floyd went downhill after Piper at the Gates of Dawn. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
Shwa Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 you were claiming to playing as well those you listed...for all I know you may be better ... Oh gawd, no. I could play their songs and some of the lead breaks, but 'as well?" Nooooo. the swede is very quick but it's an electric plus he's only plucking away at one string at a time the acoustical is 5 finger plucking,( as well as drumming on some tunes)... Well, let's see the acoustical play one string at a time as well as Malmsteen! Or the acoustical play an electric. (however, in fairness, if I have heard one Malmsteen tune, I have heard them all) Where's Adrian Belew when you need him? Hendrix wrote that at 5 did he?...plus writing and playing are two completely different talents... When the 5 year old grows up, when they have written something as amazing as Voodoo Chile, write it then play it. Or even jam on some groove that is even close. It will never happen. Jimi Hendrix, Guitar Hero. 5 year old on YouTube, temporary meme. and a number of rock stars have had classical training over the years but none can sing with Andrea Bocelli...having done something doesn't mean that they were any good a it... LOL, I meant Rik Emmett- you know, the Triumph guitarist? But I am sure Kirk Hammett plays classical guitar in his spare time. being a star in one genre doesn't make you a star in another...superstar Mary J. Blige looked like an amateur in a duet with Andrea Bocelli at the grammies... Who is Andrea Bocelli and why does no one care? Quote
Shwa Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 Generally the "greatest ever" just means, the one I like the most. me, I've been playin the ol' guitar for over 30 years now. Yeah I strummed a few G chords in my day. Led Zep set the standard template for rock bands with the dazzling dark haired but shy guitarist, and the oh so cute blonde guy who was the frontman. But for me it was Jimmy Page who was the important member of the band. I also liked Pink Floyd. Dave Gilmour was mentor to me. Those bluesy bends, and the big tone. Now I still play guitar, but am more into jazz, like the bebop stylings of Wes Montgomery. I love classical guitar too. When I look back and think about all the styles and guitarists I have enjoyed listening to over the years, I still love all those guys. So "best" is a relative term. There really is no "best". It is all about taste of course. But then I can ask you, since I have never done any research on it - David Gilmour on some of the solos on Dark Side of the Moon and Wish You Were Here - does it sound like he is using a slide? Quote
Jack Weber Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 Pink Floyd went downhill after Piper at the Gates of Dawn. That's a great album,but your statement is patently ridiculous!!! Consider this.... If Syd Barrett had kept it together(who was an underrated guitar player),there would have been no reason for David Gilmour.Gilmour came on board during the Saucerful of Secrets album (1968) because Barrett was starting to go over the edge.Frankly,it was'nt until the 1972 Meddle album that the band began to get out from under the shadow of Barrett. The reason,at least to me,that Pink Floyd was such a powerful band is not the terrible complexity of the music.It's the melding of Roger Waters lyrics and David Gilmours ability to captur the feelings of those lyrics through his guitar playing.That's why Dark Side of the Moon,Wish You Were Here,Animals,The Wall,and,The Final Cut are such gripping albums.And they're all different,dealing with different subject matter and requiring different styles in songwriting and musicianship.... To something Shwa said earlier...I agree that musically Yes is a very god band.I think my dislike of them is based on 2 things... 1.I cannot stand John Anderson's voice.It's like listening to fingernails on a chalk board to me.It's one of the main reasons I dislike Led Zeppelin,as well... 2.Of all the Prog Rock bands of the '70's,I find Yes the most self indulgent.If I'm not mistaken,did'nt Yes have a double album album in the early '70's that contained 4 songs? Thus is coming from someone who has every Pink Floyd album.Every Genesis album up to Duke.Several ELP albums nd King Crimson albums.One of my favourite Genesis songs is the 11th Earl of Mar,which gets almost zero airplay...I'm the kind of person who sits down and listens to Atom Heart Mother and Ummagumma in their entirety... Yes,to me,is like Miles Davis...Supremely talented but just a little to far out there for my taste.. Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
wyly Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 1.I cannot stand John Anderson's voice.It's like listening to fingernails on a chalk board to me.It's one of the main reasons I dislike Led Zeppelin,as well... finger nails on on a chalkboard?...GETTY LEE and rush!!!...gawd I hated that band... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 Who is Andrea Bocelli and why does no one care? I was never a fan of opera but bocelli is an a league of his own when it comes to vocals... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Jack Weber Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) finger nails on on a chalkboard?...GETTY LEE and rush!!!...gawd I hated that band... I'm not a fan of GEDDY Lee,however,I like Rush... Edited February 8, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Jack Weber Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 What does that have to do with anything. At any rate, some nights I thought I was. "as good as" If you want technical proficiency, see Yngwie Malmsteen However, once the 5 year old can write something equal to Voodoo Chile, then we'll talk. When a classical guitar player can write something like Voodoo Chile, then we'll talk... no wait, not fair. Jimmie Page played some classical, Eddie Van Halen plays some classical, Kirk Hammett... I see your Yngwie Malmsteen and raise you: 1.George Benson 2.Joan Armatrading Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Sir Bandelot Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 But then I can ask you, since I have never done any research on it - David Gilmour on some of the solos on Dark Side of the Moon and Wish You Were Here - does it sound like he is using a slide? Yeah he does use a slide, no question about it. On the tune "Breathe" (Dark side of the moon) you can hear it. In the video "Live at Pompeii" you can see him using a slide on such classics as "Syncopated Pandemonium" and "Set the controls for the heart of the Sun". Quote
Shwa Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 I see your Yngwie Malmsteen and raise you: 1.George Benson 2.Joan Armatrading Oh. George Benson. Good one. Hmmmm... Ok, I see your Benson and Armatrading and toss in: 1. Steve Vai and (wait for it) 2. Pat Metheny Quote
WIP Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 agreed, over the years I've seen a few great performers in bars that never made it to stardom despite enormous amounts of talent...some of the best musicians toil away in obscurity as studio musicians... sometimes "greatest ever" really means "best known" or "best marketed" or "most sales"...Taylor Swift has lots of sales and awards but she can't sing a lick...autotune the saviour of crappy talent... Here Here! I heard the name "Taylor Swift" kicked around in the media, and gave her a listen to see what all the hubub was about and I'm still baffled why she is a star, when many with a lot more significant talent go unnoticed. Same goes for this Lady GAGA crap and whatever the hype machine is serving up lately. I noticed when first, music video started in the 80's, and then manufacturing pop stars returned with American Idol, that pop music had returned to what it was before the Beatles -- a business dominated by the suits rather than the musicians. There was that brief 20 year period from about the mid 60's to the mid 80's when the record companies lost control of managing the product. But now with entertainment business all in the hands of a handful of media conglomerates, what's popular today is all about finding someone who can be packaged as a product for market, to aim at a particular target audience. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
WIP Posted February 8, 2011 Report Posted February 8, 2011 That's a great album,but your statement is patently ridiculous!!! Consider this.... If Syd Barrett had kept it together(who was an underrated guitar player),there would have been no reason for David Gilmour.Gilmour came on board during the Saucerful of Secrets album (1968) because Barrett was starting to go over the edge.Frankly,it was'nt until the 1972 Meddle album that the band began to get out from under the shadow of Barrett. The reason,at least to me,that Pink Floyd was such a powerful band is not the terrible complexity of the music.It's the melding of Roger Waters lyrics and David Gilmours ability to captur the feelings of those lyrics through his guitar playing.That's why Dark Side of the Moon,Wish You Were Here,Animals,The Wall,and,The Final Cut are such gripping albums.And they're all different,dealing with different subject matter and requiring different styles in songwriting and musicianship.... I couldn't agree more! I think when some Floyd fans start pushing this crap that the band died when Syd Barrett went insane, that most of us did not really care for the early Floyd albums. I agree that Barrett was important for moving the band from being just another blues band to prog rock pioneers, but those early albums just do not carry the same weight as Dark Side Of The Moon. And regardless who's better, no David Gilmour and it's not Pink Floyd. To something Shwa said earlier...I agree that musically Yes is a very god band.I think my dislike of them is based on 2 things...1.I cannot stand John Anderson's voice.It's like listening to fingernails on a chalk board to me.It's one of the main reasons I dislike Led Zeppelin,as well... 2.Of all the Prog Rock bands of the '70's,I find Yes the most self indulgent.If I'm not mistaken,did'nt Yes have a double album album in the early '70's that contained 4 songs? Yeah, alright, that was "Tales From Topographic Oceans," and even they would agree that they couldn't make it work. They made that album around the time they thought their Eastern Religion stuff could solve the world's problems, and it came out soon after "Close To The Edge," which I think they were able to pull it off. But, I'd rather see an artist make an epic fail trying to aspire to greater things, than to play it save and sell records....like this band that's big now "Black Keys" if I got the name right. Every song they make is being hocked for advertising some crap out there! No one needs to buy their records, they can hear the songs whenever they hear an ad for selling shoes, cell phones, cars etc. Thus is coming from someone who has every Pink Floyd album.Every Genesis album up to Duke.Several ELP albums nd King Crimson albums.One of my favourite Genesis songs is the 11th Earl of Mar,which gets almost zero airplay...I'm the kind of person who sits down and listens to Atom Heart Mother and Ummagumma in their entirety...Yes,to me,is like Miles Davis...Supremely talented but just a little to far out there for my taste.. If you don't find Emerson Lake & Palmer or King Crimson bloated, I'm surprised you draw the line at YES. My personal favourite Genesis song would be "Watcher Of The Skies," favourite album - "Selling England By The Pound." Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
Wild Bill Posted February 9, 2011 Report Posted February 9, 2011 Generally the "greatest ever" just means, the one I like the most. me, I've been playin the ol' guitar for over 30 years now. Yeah I strummed a few G chords in my day. Led Zep set the standard template for rock bands with the dazzling dark haired but shy guitarist, and the oh so cute blonde guy who was the frontman. But for me it was Jimmy Page who was the important member of the band. I also liked Pink Floyd. Dave Gilmour was mentor to me. Those bluesy bends, and the big tone. Now I still play guitar, but am more into jazz, like the bebop stylings of Wes Montgomery. I love classical guitar too. When I look back and think about all the styles and guitarists I have enjoyed listening to over the years, I still love all those guys. So "best" is a relative term. There really is no "best". One thing I've learned, if I can play it then it must be crap! But if you want your amp modded to give you Eddie Van Halen's "brown sound" then I'm your man! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
BubberMiley Posted February 9, 2011 Report Posted February 9, 2011 Yes,to me,is like Miles Davis...Supremely talented but just a little to far out there for my taste.. What's "out there" about Miles Davis? I always thought he was one of the more conservative guys of his era. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
jbg Posted February 9, 2011 Report Posted February 9, 2011 What's "out there" about Miles Davis? I always thought he was one of the more conservative guys of his era. His music was complex, esoteric and sophisticated. Not for every taste. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Sir Bandelot Posted February 9, 2011 Report Posted February 9, 2011 His music was complex, esoteric and sophisticated. Not for every taste. Miles entered the scene during the bebop era, but soon he and a few others realized that they too were becoming a "cliche" in the use of certain musical phrases. Miles and people like John Coltrane sought to take jazz music to the next level. His innovations include the birth of "cool jazz", and he's a major influence on many successive generations of jazz musician, including Pat Metheney and John Scofield. As Miles would say, "never finish a phrase". Well we've gone a long way from The Who in this one. Now back to flying cartwheel-like strumming, of eternal A chords... Quote
BubberMiley Posted February 9, 2011 Report Posted February 9, 2011 His music was complex, esoteric and sophisticated. Sure, but it was also very accessible. His clear, simple, straightforward style is actually very easy to listen to. Now, Coltrane, shortly before he died, was " ." Miles never went in the Ornette Coleman Free Jazz direction. Instead he strived for more accessibility by trying to be a . Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
jbg Posted February 9, 2011 Report Posted February 9, 2011 Sure, but it was also very accessible. His clear, simple, straightforward style is actually very easy to listen to. Now, Coltrane, shortly before he died, was " ." Miles never went in the Ornette Coleman Free Jazz direction. Instead he strived for more accessibility by trying to be a . I agree but for the "Sugar Sugar" set he's too complex. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
wyly Posted February 9, 2011 Report Posted February 9, 2011 in the end it's all opinion, there is likely no greatest it's just the one or group we prefer...usually the music we hear in our formative puberty years into our 20's is what sticks with us...mrs wyly grew up with country music, GAWD! I hate twangy country music, long road trips are hell... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
WIP Posted February 9, 2011 Report Posted February 9, 2011 in the end it's all opinion, there is likely no greatest it's just the one or group we prefer...usually the music we hear in our formative puberty years into our 20's is what sticks with us...mrs wyly grew up with country music, GAWD! I hate twangy country music, long road trips are hell... Not everyone can enjoy the same kind of music. When I was kid, back in the 60's, we had to listen to dad's old timey country music on the radio every time we were on a long trip. I always wondered why that crap all sounded the same....and then I discovered years later, that Nashville impresario - Roy Acuff produced all of the country music played on those country stations, and when a new country singer was going to make a record, they sang in front of the same band, with the same drummer, piano player, pedal steel guitar player etc. that the last guy had! Even after Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson and the rest of the so called "outlaws" busted down the doors of the Nashville music factory, I still could never warm up to country music again. When it comes to jazz...I get bored after 20 or 30 seconds, I just don't get it. And new stuff has to sound like the music that I grew up with before I like it. For example, my son showed me a video from this southern rock band - My Morning Jacket last year, and I started buying their music on Itunes. I came across an article written by a psychologist who says that, as we reach adulthood, our curiosity and willingness to try new things starts to come to a halt. When it comes to music, if we didn't like it by our early 20's, we're not going to buy it in our 40's and 50's. Music marketers are aware of this, and the Time-life people have already figured out that 20 years after some big pop trend it's time to re-market it for the nostalgia crowd. Quote Anybody who believers exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth Boulding, 1973
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