Accountability Now Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/library/MPB/carroll_2004_effects.pdf Thanks Squid. I appreciate your willingness for HONEST conversation. I do note that the article you posted is a 2004 paper from Allan Carroll. Here is an updated 2010 abstract discussing the same things but adding a little more information on the cause. http://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/gtr/gtr-nrs-p-75papers/01carroll-p-75.pdf For a mountain pine beetle outbreak to occur, there must be an abundance of large, mature pine trees (the beetle’s preferred resource) combined with several years of favorable weather for beetle survival. Due to fire suppression and selective harvesting (for species other than pine) during the latter half of the previous century, there was more than three times the amount of mature pine in western Canada at the start of the current outbreak than 100 years earlier. Furthermore, as a result of climate change, conditions relevant to mountain pine beetle survival have improved over much of its range during recent decades, allowing populations to invade formerly climatically unsuitable pine forests. Thus, both required conditions for an outbreak have coincided with sufficient magnitude to cause the largest outbreak in recorded history. Is it not fair to say that forest mangement and logging tehcniques may have been the main cause of this? Quote
Accountability Now Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 I've put forward many references from assorted authoritative groups; the IPCC is just one of those. Don't you recall how you wigged out, big time, over the WMO references provided - yes? Is there any authoritative body/organization you accept... other than right-wing stink-tanks? I will again note your most selective, self-serving usage of that IPCC authority. You affirm it in one regard, yet choose to ignore it when it pertains to your actual deep-seated denial. Why... that's self-serving, cherry-picking on your part - yes? as I said, take it to an appropriate thread... please proceed, Governor! you've now used the attempted insult reference "court jester" twice in this, your latest reply. Please harness your overt personalization and please attempt to contribute positively to this board - thanks in advance. but hey now, you were the guy who repeatedly attempted to chastise for "derailing, deflecting" this thread..... and you want to turn it into a discussion on extreme weather/climate change? You're not very consistent, are you? As I said, take it to an appropriate thread... and come prepared. You called me Governor. I called you court jester. That is your call...not mine. Quote
Accountability Now Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 you're adding nothing positive to the thread discussion here. You used the "theoretical" reference. Member 'eyeball' immediately called you out in regards ocean acidification... as did I with a reference to mountain pine beetle damage/destruction. Not quite so theoretical, hey? You started your claimed "derail" with your "theoretical" reference. You did that. again, if you would like to dispute either of those counters to your "theoretical" reference, please do... preferably in an appropriate thread since you're so concerned about derailing this one! PROVIODE YOUR BACK UP!!! How difficult is it to understand?????? Quote
waldo Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 Waldo, you get what you give. You aren't much nicer to me even though I have never made personally demeaning remarks. ??? I've not been... nice... to you? If you've taken exception to being challenged on your complete inability to substantiate any of your claims concerning AGW/CC, I sincerely apologize that you interpreted those challenges as "not nice". Quote
jbg Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 ??? I've not been... nice... to you? If you've taken exception to being challenged on your complete inability to substantiate any of your claims concerning AGW/CC, I sincerely apologize that you interpreted those challenges as "not nice". What I have done is try to make out an argument that human observations should have a role in determining the existence and severity of a warming problem. You suggest that all such observations are of weather, not climate. You and I disagree. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Accountability Now Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 Maybe not in and if itself but when it's been reflecting the consensus of the vast vast VAST majority of climate scientists and experts for years and years YEARS it's definitely who governments should be listening to. When these scientists can accurately showcase what is going to happen then the governments should listen. Look at the plateau and their inability to predict that. Look at all the theoretical extreme weather that they say is going to happen in theory but can't back it up in actuality. The problem is that government can't just go out on a limb and make drastic changes without proof that the results with be catastrophic. So far...they aren't. ' Quote
Accountability Now Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 Waldo, you get what you give. You aren't much nicer to me even though I have never made personally demeaning remarks. You aren't the only one! He has a repeated pattern of this where most people just put him on ignore. Quote
Accountability Now Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 ??? I've not been... nice... to you? If you've taken exception to being challenged on your complete inability to substantiate any of your claims concerning AGW/CC, I sincerely apologize that you interpreted those challenges as "not nice". Nice back-pedal! Quote
waldo Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 Is it not fair to say that forest mangement and logging tehcniques may have been the main cause of this? please sir, you have complained incessantly about thread derail! However, I will note you've taken liberty (based on a single study) to claim a "may' main cause. Does your single study purview also allow you to offer a qualitative assessment on the causal degree warming has on the pine-beetle life-cycle? Quote
waldo Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 Look at all the theoretical extreme weather that they say is going to happen in theory but can't back it up in actuality. they can't back up future predictions? Huh, say what? Quote
Accountability Now Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 please sir, you have complained incessantly about thread derail! However, I will note you've taken liberty (based on a single study) to claim a "may' main cause. Does your single study purview also allow you to offer a qualitative assessment on the causal degree warming has on the pine-beetle life-cycle? Run along waldo....the adults are talking now. Squid actually provided a link....something that evades you. Quote
waldo Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 What I have done is try to make out an argument that human observations should have a role in determining the existence and severity of a warming problem. You suggest that all such observations are of weather, not climate. You and I disagree. I'd suggest you first deal with your claim attributing warming to "the Earth coming out of the last ice age"... from there any effort you put forward to help you better understand the distinction between weather and climate may be helpful to your confusion. Quote
waldo Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 You called me Governor. I called you court jester. That is your call...not mine. I asked you to... please proceed, Governor. That is not an insult. I expect you are pretending not to know it's origination and/or meaning. Quote
waldo Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 Run along waldo....the adults are talking now. Squid actually provided a link....something that evades you. when I posted that pic reference, I also quoted you from nrcan - Natural Resources Canada. I'm not aware of any serious body of research that disputes the impact of warming on the mountain pine-beetle life-cycle. In spite of all your caterwauling, you've not put forward anything to counter this widely accepted understanding. You've been encouraged/asked to do so... several times now. But again, please do it in an appropriate thread; I'm sensitive to your repeated raised concerns over thread derail. Quote
Accountability Now Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 I asked you to... please proceed, Governor. That is not an insult. I expect you are pretending not to know it's origination and/or meaning. I'm not a Governor. Quote
waldo Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 I'm not a Governor. again... as the waldo is always willing to help, try this: I asked you to... please proceed, Governor. That is not an insult. I expect you are pretending not to know it's origination and/or meaning. Quote
Accountability Now Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 when I posted that pic reference, I also quoted you from nrcan - Natural Resources Canada. Here is your EXACT QUOTE!!!!! Tell me where in here you you say ANYTHING about Natrual Resources Canada. ANYTHING????? Another bold face lie from the most dishonest member on this forum. Like i said....run along waldo. Quote The current mountain pine beetle (MPB) outbreak started in British Columbia in the early 1990s. The insect has since killed about 50% of the total volume of commercial lodgepole pine in the province. While isolated records of MPB had been noted in Alberta before, it was the massive migration of beetles into that province from outbreaks in British Columbia during 2006 that fuelled the spread eastward. Today the MPB occurs well beyond its historic range, extending into northern British Columbia and eastward in the boreal forest of north-central Alberta. Not just limiting itself to lodgepole pine any longer, the beetle is also reproducing in jack pine, the dominant pine species of the boreal forest. Quote
Accountability Now Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 again... as the waldo is always willing to help, try this: Funny...you spend all that time with your Google reenactment but you can't supply one link for the pine beetle. Wow. PS...I'm still not a Governor. Quote
waldo Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 Here is your EXACT QUOTE!!!!! Tell me where in here you you say ANYTHING about Natrual Resources Canada. ANYTHING????? Another bold face lie from the most dishonest member on this forum. Like i said....run along waldo. would you like me to set you up a 'let me google that for you' link for this, as well? It's a quote from the nrcan - Natural Resources Canada site. Try a google on the quote! . Quote
Accountability Now Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 would you like me to set you up a 'let me google that for you' link for this, as well? It's a quote from the nrcan - Natural Resources Canada site. Try a google on the quote! . Not my job to back up your claims. Don't worry...I won't ask you to back it up anymore as I know you can't. I'll continue the conversation with the honest members in this forum. I trust the moderators of this thread don't deal too harshly with your bold face lie about your fake citation. Don't worry....I won't report you. Quote
waldo Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 Funny...you spend all that time with your Google reenactment but you can't supply one link for the pine beetle. Wow. PS...I'm still not a Governor. all that time? 20 secs? It's on me! again, I'm not aware of any serious body of research, any reputable publications, that dispute the impact of warming on the mountain pine-beetle life-cycle. I will encourage you, once again, to provide your counter to this widely accepted understanding. But again, please, given your considerable ongoing raised concerns over thread derail, do so in another appropriate thread. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 Guys ... perhaps a cool down on this one ? I see shouting and accusations... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
waldo Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 Not my job to back up your claims. Don't worry...I won't ask you to back it up anymore as I know you can't. I'll continue the conversation with the honest members in this forum. I trust the moderators of this thread don't deal too harshly with your bold face lie about your fake citation. Don't worry....I won't report you. no - there's no lie. Again, as repeated now, it's a quote from the nrcan - Natural Resources Canada site. Google it. Quote
waldo Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 Guys ... perhaps a cool down on this one ? I see shouting and accusations... certainly not from me. Respectively, I would suggest you target your concern appropriately. I'm not the one calling lie, speaking to dishonesty. Quote
Accountability Now Posted March 3, 2014 Report Posted March 3, 2014 Guys ... perhaps a cool down on this one ? I see shouting and accusations... No accusations Michael just truth on my end. waldo was asked to provide a link to back up his claim. He did not and then stated that he had. He's now saying that I needed to Google the quote to find it. Only bold face lies on his end. Quote
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