Heathcare Reporting - Do It Yourself

[dre]

I think you missed the point about nurses at 10K/year. There may be room to cut costs but they will NEVER get that low because we don't have a massive pool of labour that will work for pennies a day. You also ignored the issue of lawsuits and regulations. The right to sue a doctor comes at a price. Are you willing to give that right up in order to get cheaper healthcare?

I think you missed the point about nurses at 10K/year. There may be room to cut costs but they will NEVER get that low because we don't have a massive pool of labour that will work for pennies a day.

I didnt miss that point at ALL, in fact its central to the point I was making in the first place. North America is an extremely expensive place to produce a product or services, and limiting ourselves to this market is making things EXTREMELY expensive.

You also ignored the issue of lawsuits and regulations. The right to sue a doctor comes at a price. Are you willing to give that right up in order to get cheaper healthcare?

Youre assuming that you have no right to sue in other countries. In most of them you do but the laws are different. In India Lakhsman Joshi v. Trimbak established the right of a patient to sue for negligance. The rewards are smaller though, and you have to show real negligence.

Are you willing to give that right up

Depends on the case... there has to be a cost benefit analysis. But millions of people have decided its worth doing, and like I said its growing very quickly. I would focus on patient outcomes primary if I was picking a foreign facility.

Thats why we need to strengthen the accreditation process so that we can build consumer confidence, and educate them about both the risks and rewards.

[TimG]

North America is an extremely expensive place to produce a product or services, and limiting ourselves to this market is making things EXTREMELY expensive.

In theory you are correct, however, there is no reason to stop at health care. Almost every job can be exported except for a few that are tied to physical assets like mining. But even then, why should we pay more to hire a Canadian for these jobs when it is cheaper to import cheap labour from India or China? In fact, if all we care about is getting the best price for services and goods then we should open the doors to immigration and create massive slums like they have in India in order to reduce the cost of labour to bargain basement prices. A wonderful strategy if you are some old fogey living on capital saved for retirement. Not so good for younger people.

In India Lakhsman Joshi v. Trimbak established the right of a patient to sue for negligence. The rewards are smaller though, and you have to show real negligence.

As I said, there is price to pay for the liability system we have here. If you want cheaper prices for healthcare here you would need to accept 'indian style' liability laws and damage awards. I take it you are ok with that?

Thats why we need to strengthen the accreditation process so that we can build consumer confidence, and educate them about both the risks and rewards.

I don't think we need to a damn thing. If people want to do it they are free to do so on their own dime. If you want to reduce costs here there are better ways to do it. Edited December 20, 2010 by TimG

[wyly]

Yes thats the convention wisdom, but its mostly wrong. A look at the data shows that patient outcomes would be comparable whether radiology scans were read by a doctor in a JCI accredited facility in India, or one in Vancouver. The main difference is cost. The indian radiologist makes 20 thousand per year, and the Canadian one makes 350 thousand.

sorry it's not wrong, it doesn't matter what India's standards of accreditation are they're not accepted here because they are not consistent...

People are starting get wise to this massive scam, and millions of people have fled North American and Western European markets to escape the massive pricegouging thats gone on. And the industry is growing at an astronomical rate,

how many canadians are fleeing this massive price gouging? oh wait we don't pay anything

and people are learning that the quality of care in accredited foreign hospitals is very close to ours, and the typical western view that if you leave the west for care youll be treated in a grass hut by a guy with a bone through his nose.

you have no idea if the MDs in foreign hospitals are accredited or not, and if they are where did they receive their accreditation? what was the standard set for that accreditation?

We should build on accreditation bodies like the JCI, so that consumers have real metrics on patient outcomes in foreign facilities, and then we should offer a 50% cash endowment to anyone that saves our system some money. If the Canadian government is going to pay 100 000 for a procedure, and Im willing to have that procedure done in a market where it costs 15 000 then I should be able to keep the money I saved our system. 42 000, and the system has still saved 42 000 and the pressure on it as been reduced.

As soon as this starts to happen on any scale prices will start to come down here at home as well.

[dre]

sorry it's not wrong, it doesn't matter what India's standards of accreditation are they're not accepted here because they are not consistent...

how many canadians are fleeing this massive price gouging? oh wait we don't pay anything

you have no idea if the MDs in foreign hospitals are accredited or not, and if they are where did they receive their accreditation? what was the standard set for that accreditation?

sorry it's not wrong, it doesn't matter what India's standards of accreditation are they're not accepted here because they are not consistent...

Well thats the whole point. You cant necessarily rely on other countries having the same standards as we do, or standards that are acceptable to you and I. Thats why most medical tourists use the JCI standards. The JCI is a US based private non-profit that studies health standards and facilities around the world and accredits facilities that are in compliance.

Having and independant accreditor that consumers trust is obviously of key importance.

how many canadians are fleeing this massive price gouging? oh wait we don't pay anything

Most Canadian medical tourists are trying to avoid waiting lists, or travelling abroad for dental care or cosmetic surgery, because the Government will not allow any portability in their policies. This is a gigantic problem when it comes to costs and its easy to see why. Imagine if the Canadian government provided "Universal Television" and they funded it with tax dollars. If they refused to purchase foreign made TV's they would wind up paying 5 times as much per TV set and need to take 5 times as much taxes.

you have no idea if the MDs in foreign hospitals are accredited or not, and if they are where did they receive their accreditation? what was the standard set for that accreditation?

Sure you do. You just need to read up on the accreditor whats its record is, and what its standards are. Theres numerous accreditors out there, so far the one that seems to be gaining the most recognition is the JCI.

[wyly]

Well thats the whole point. You cant necessarily rely on other countries having the same standards as we do, or standards that are acceptable to you and I. Thats why most medical tourists use the JCI standards. The JCI is a US based private non-profit that studies health standards and facilities around the world and accredits facilities that are in compliance.

Having and independant accreditor that consumers trust is obviously of key importance.

that only tells you the minimum standard which is not our minimum....the USA allows MDs who have not passed their medical exams to work, this doesn't happen in canada because our standards are higher...

Most Canadian medical tourists are trying to avoid waiting lists, or travelling abroad for dental care or cosmetic surgery, because the Government will not allow any portability in their policies.

bogus...dental care and cosmetic surgery are not covered by healthcare nor are they in the US...

Sure you do. You just need to read up on the accreditor whats its record is, and what its standards are. Theres numerous accreditors out there, so far the one that seems to be gaining the most recognition is the JCI.

and that's the issue there many standards and of course they'll all give canada accreditation because we're on the top if JCI approves of US care then it's obviously insufficient...

[bush_cheney2004]

...and that's the issue there many standards and of course they'll all give canada accreditation because we're on the top if JCI approves of US care then it's obviously insufficient...

...but US care is more than sufficient for Canadian Prime Ministers and MPs.