israel criticizes aregentina and brazil for recognizing palestinian st

[bud]

some may ask why would they criticize it? obviously because the extreme right wing zionist government has never wanted a palestinian state to be created.

that's over 100 countries who now recognize the palestinian state, within the internationally recognized 1967 border.

Israel has reacted angrily to Argentina's recognition of a Palestinian state within 1967 borders.

Monday's move by Argentina comes days after a similar step by South American neighbour Brazil.

The Argentinian foreign ministry said recognition was in line with the Palestinians' right to build an independent state.

More than 100 states around the world recognise Palestine, their mission at the United Nations says.

"The time has come to recognise Palestine as a free and independent state," Foreign Minister Hector Timerman said, adding that Argentina was "frustrated" that peace talks had stalled.

BBC

[Guest TrueMetis]

For all Israel's talk about the right to self determination they sure don't seem to want to give that right to Palestine.

[M.Dancer]

For all Israel's talk about the right to self determination they sure don't seem to want to give that right to Palestine.

And until the palestinians unequivically recognise Israel, dismantle the terrorist networks and conclude a peace treaty, why would they? Why would anyone want to give that terrorist incubator any legitiomacy at all?

[dre]

Why would anyone want to give that terrorist incubator any legitiomacy at all?

Because keeping them in a perpetual state of statelessness is one of the main reasons for terrorism there.

[Jack Weber]

Because keeping them in a perpetual state of statelessness is one of the main reasons for terrorism there.

It might one of the reasons...

It's not the only one and certainly NOT the biggest reason...

[dre]

It might one of the reasons...

It's not the only one and certainly NOT the biggest reason...

We disagree on that. In any case the current situation gives you about the worst chance of stabilizing the place and reigning in militants. The only reason its stayed in place is so that Israel can keep plundering the occupied territories.

It would be way EASIER to deal with the problem if we just recognized a palestinian state and set up a somewhat normal government there. Especially from an Israeli standpoint. They have a way easier time dealing with the surrounding nation states than they do dealing with an occupied territory.

[Jack Weber]

We disagree on that. In any case the current situation gives you about the worst chance of stabilizing the place and reigning in militants. The only reason its stayed in place is so that Israel can keep plundering the occupied territories.

It would be way EASIER to deal with the problem if we just recognized a palestinian state and set up a somewhat normal government there. Especially from an Israeli standpoint. They have a way easier time dealing with the surrounding nation states than they do dealing with an occupied territory.

And after Israel allowed this to happen,and the surrounding Muslim countries continued their proxy war with their many terrorist aparatchik's,(which they are certain to do as the Palestinian question is a smal part of the Arab/Muslim disgust of Israel),what then?

[M.Dancer]

Because keeping them in a perpetual state of statelessness is one of the main reasons for terrorism there.

Really?

How many terrorist attacks were there on Egypt and Jordan between 1948-1967?

[Guest TrueMetis]

And until the palestinians unequivically recognise Israel, dismantle the terrorist networks and conclude a peace treaty, why would they? Why would anyone want to give that terrorist incubator any legitiomacy at all?

Because the current system is working so well. /sarcasm

Someones got to start somewhere and I expect that first compromise to come from the nation that want's to be treated like a 1st world country, not from the non-country hellhole.

[dre]

And after Israel allowed this to happen,and the surrounding Muslim countries continued their proxy war with their many terrorist aparatchik's,(which they are certain to do as the Palestinian question is a smal part of the Arab/Muslim disgust of Israel),what then?

You make it sound like Israel is under seige and they really arent. In any case that situation is STILL easier for Israel. When a nation state attacks you, you can bomb its capital, and for once Israel would have the world community on their side. The new state would probably need to be propped up by the west for a couple of decades and that funding could come with strings attached. Thats essentially how Israel and Egypt made peace, and that probably would have happened a long time ago if Isreal didnt have such an urgent need to maintain control of the resources in the west bank and golan heights.

[Bonam]

You make it sound like Israel is under seige and they really arent. In any case that situation is STILL easier for Israel. When a nation state attacks you, you can bomb its capital, and for once Israel would have the world community on their side. The new state would probably need to be propped up by the west for a couple of decades and that funding could come with strings attached. Thats essentially how Israel and Egypt made peace, and that probably would have happened a long time ago if Isreal didnt have such an urgent need to maintain control of the resources in the west bank and golan heights.

And the Golan Heights have what exactly to do with a Palestinian state?

[dre]

And the Golan Heights have what exactly to do with a Palestinian state?

Theyre both territories that are very tough for Israel to give up, because they arent just occupying them for security reasons they are plundering the the resources in each and depend on them quite heavily.

[Bonam]

Theyre both territories that are very tough for Israel to give up, because they arent just occupying them for security reasons they are plundering the the resources in each and depend on them quite heavily.

There is a major difference, however. While the West Bank and Gaza have large Arab populations that wish to form a separate and independent state of Palestine, there is no such presence in the Golan Heights. Additionally, Israel has pretty much annexed the Golan Heights, whereas it has no intention of doing so in the West Bank or Gaza.

While a wise Israeli leader should be trying to find ways to come to a peace settlement that involves a Palestinian state being formed in the West Bank and Gaza, any Israeli leader who gives away the Golan would be a complete fool.

[dre]

There is a major difference, however. While the West Bank and Gaza have large Arab populations that wish to form a separate and independent state of Palestine, there is no such presence in the Golan Heights. Additionally, Israel has pretty much annexed the Golan Heights, whereas it has no intention of doing so in the West Bank or Gaza.

While a wise Israeli leader should be trying to find ways to come to a peace settlement that involves a Palestinian state being formed in the West Bank and Gaza, any Israeli leader who gives away the Golan would be a complete fool.

Golan has their only ski slope too!.

[Bonam]

Golan has their only ski slope too!.

Yep. If I was an Israeli skier I sure would be mad if my government gave away our one slope. Hell, even if I wasn't a skier, not having a mountain with snow in the whole country would suck. I couldn't live in such a place.

[dre]

Yep. If I was an Israeli skier I sure would be mad if my government gave away our one slope. Hell, even if I wasn't a skier, not having a mountain with snow in the whole country would suck. I couldn't live in such a place.

Well... you cant give away something that isnt yours.

Id rather live inside a dead goats ass-hole than anywhere in the middle east, ski slope or not.

[Bonam]

Well... you cant give away something that isnt yours.

Not sure I see the relevance of this statement.

Id rather live inside a dead goats ass-hole than anywhere in the middle east, ski slope or not.

I think your life expectancy in Israel would be longer than it would be inside a dead goat's ass-hole.

[dre]

Not sure I see the relevance of this statement.

I think your life expectancy in Israel would be longer than it would be inside a dead goat's ass-hole.

I dunno. I hear of a lot more people dying in the middle east than I do while living inside dead goats ass-holes.

[Bonam]

I dunno. I hear of a lot more people dying in the middle east than I do while living inside dead goats ass-holes.

It is not an accurate comparison since the number of people living in the middle-east substantially exceeds the number of people living inside the rectal regions of deceased bovids. To properly compare death rates, you would need to study a group of an equal number of test subjects living in each situation. Perhaps you'd like to volunteer for the goat group?

[dre]

It is not an accurate comparison since the number of people living in the middle-east substantially exceeds the number of people living inside the rectal regions of deceased bovids. To properly compare death rates, you would need to study a group of an equal number of test subjects living in each situation. Perhaps you'd like to volunteer for the goat group?

I come on! Anecdotal evidence is good enough for everything ELSE around here!

Zero reported goat-ass deaths clearly means theyre a pretty safe place to chill.

[Bonam]

I come on! Anecdotal evidence is good enough for everything ELSE around here!

This issue is clearly much more grave and thus requires careful analysis and painstaking experimentation.

Zero reported goat-ass deaths clearly means theyre a pretty safe place to chill.

Well, you have formulated your hypothesis. Now on to the next step of the scientific method...

[dre]

This issue is clearly much more grave and thus requires careful analysis and painstaking experimentation.

Well, you have formulated your hypothesis. Now on to the next step of the scientific method...

Nope! The scientific method is a vast left wing conspiracy. Fuck peer reviewed journals, an editorial paper with some assumptions and a conclusion should do just fine.

[Bonam]

Nope! The scientific method is a vast left wing conspiracy. Fuck peer reviewed journals, an editorial paper with some assumptions and a conclusion should do just fine.

I hereby assume and conclude that I am right and you are wrong.

[dre]

I hereby assume and conclude that I am right and you are wrong.

Nope. I claim victory by timezone... Im PST. Theres a good chance its already 2 or 3 in the morning for you. Pretty sure Ill get the last piece of abject nonsense in.

[bloodyminded]

And until the palestinians unequivically recognise Israel, dismantle the terrorist networks and conclude a peace treaty, why would they? Why would anyone want to give that terrorist incubator any legitiomacy at all?

The late, great Edward Said:

...it is only a slight overstatement to say that Moslems and Arabs are essentially seen as either oil suppliers or potential terrorists. Very little of the detail, the human density, the passion of Arab-Moslem life has entered the awareness of even those people whose profession it is to report the Arab world. What we have instead is a series of crude, essentialized caricatures of the Islamic world presented in such a way as to make that world vulnerable to military aggression.

Edited December 9, 2010 by bloodyminded