Young Jews Disrupt Netanyahu at Jewish General Assembly

[ToadBrother]

I won't continue this exchange with you, as this is the third or fourth time you've misrepresented my position and attacked things I never even implied. I agree with you: there isn't uniformity among Jews with respect to our feelings and perspectives about the actions of the Israeli government. I contended the opposing view, though, which is what you're continually attacking.

Jewish unity with respect to Israel goes far beyond this country simply being the Jewish homeland. There are natural extensions to that fundamental component upon which there is widespread Jewish support. This is the country through which we manifest our independence, self-determination, as well as our cultural preservation and continued development.

End of story. Have a nice day.

Uh huh.

You remind me of a Mormon lady from Utah I once talked to who insisted the US Constitution was inspired by God, and further insisted that all Americans thought so.

Edited November 20, 2010 by ToadBrother

[Jack Weber]

So, you attempt to wrap up a personal attack against me in a statement drawing moral equivalence between Israel and its enemies? I support a few basic things: Jewish independence and self-determination, and Jewish cultural preservation and continued development. I guess that makes me an extremist in your moral-relativist view.

It's not a personal attack..

It's simply lumping intransigent buffoons in with one another..I have a dislike of extremists on both sides of this arguement,and you represent one side of the buffoonery...

Could you explain my moral relativism to me???

[Bob]

All I have said in this thread is that I am unapologetic about supporting Israel's purpose: to exist as the homeland of the Jewish people. Israel is the vehicle through which the Jewish people actualize independence and self-determination, and preserve and continually develop our culture. The vast majority of the worldwide Jewish population are supportive of these fundamentals. That's the truth. If you don't want to believe it, that's fine with me.

How that makes me a bigot... well, who knows?

[Sir Bandelot]

I don't think the OP is a bigot. Israel is just another country, and like any other deserves criticism for its flaws. These people are trying to do that in a non-violent way, so I think it's ok.

Israelis who are protesting certain actions taken by their own government are trying to make Israel a better and more fair country. That's part of how it should be done, and they have the right to do it. More than that, they are obliged to do it, and so are we. Any citizen gets the country they deserve.

[DogOnPorch]

It looked like Bibi let the water run off the duck's back. I like how the crowd started leaping on the protesters like jack rabbits...lol.

[Jack Weber]

All I have said in this thread is that I am unapologetic about supporting Israel's purpose: to exist as the homeland of the Jewish people. Israel is the vehicle through which the Jewish people actualize independence and self-determination, and preserve and continually develop our culture. The vast majority of the worldwide Jewish population are supportive of these fundamentals. That's the truth. If you don't want to believe it, that's fine with me.

How that makes me a bigot... well, who knows?

Super...

I'll note you cannot support your claim of my "moral relativism"...

Edited November 20, 2010 by Jack Weber

[DogOnPorch]

Super...

I'll note you cannot support your claim of my "moral realtivism"...

I imagine after a few brews the topic would switch to football.

[Jack Weber]

I imagine after a few brews the topic would switch to football.

The brews would come after I forcibly removed his front teeth...

Then you and I can talk football while the paramedics assist Bobby...

[DogOnPorch]

The brews would come after I forcibly removed his front teeth...

Then you and I can talk football while the paramedics assist Bobby...

Meh...he's just new to this livin' in Jerusalem stuff. Let's drink, padrooga!

[Jack Weber]

Meh...he's just new to this livin' in Jerusalem stuff. Let's drink, padrooga!

Waht'll it be??

Bourbon/Scotch or beer??

Or one Bourbon,One Scotch,and,one beer?

"How dry I am...How dli Ima...No bodilloy knowz...How dry I'm"...

[KeyStone]

Once he started calling them Jewish Uncle Tom's. He had pretty much lost his claim to not be a bigot.

Looks like he would like to narrow Jew's into two categories.

1) "Real Jews" - who support Israel, increased settlements, and have no sympathy for Palestinians 'because they are evil Ay-Rabs"

and

2) "Uncle Tom Jews" - clearly if they don't agree with the aims of Israel, they aren't real Jews.

[Jack Weber]

Once he started calling them Jewish Uncle Tom's. He had pretty much lost his claim to not be a bigot.

Looks like he would like to narrow Jew's into two categories.

1) "Real Jews" - who support Israel, increased settlements, and have no sympathy for Palestinians 'because they are evil Ay-Rabs"

and

2) "Uncle Tom Jews" - clearly if they don't agree with the aims of Israel, they aren't real Jews.

Well...To be fair,the election of Hamas as it's spokespeople leaves little choice for comprimise...

However,essentially,you've nailed the "Israel Uber Alles" crowd,of which Bob is a card carrying member...

[Bob]

Super...

I'll note you cannot support your claim of my "moral relativism"...

The moral relativism comes into play when you equate my unapologetic support for Israel's existence as our eternal Jewish homeland with anti-Israel extremists who support terrorism and oppose Jewish self-determination in Israel. All I've said is that I am unwavering and uncompromising on the basic fundamentals of Israel: Jewish independence and self-determination, as well as Jewish cultural preservation and ongoing development. After making such statements, you labelled me as an extremist. That is, in a word: ridiculous.

[Jack Weber]

The moral relativism comes into play when you equate my unapologetic support for Israel's existence as our eternal Jewish homeland with anti-Israel extremists who support terrorism and oppose Jewish self-determination in Israel. All I've said is that I am unwavering and uncompromising on the basic fundamentals of Israel: Jewish independence and self-determination, as well as Jewish cultural preservation and ongoing development. After making such statements, you labelled me as an extremist. That is, in a word: ridiculous.

Wrong Bobby...

The only ridiculous person here,other than Naomi,is you...

You are both the extreme ends of the same cluelessly unreconcilable(sp) coin...And are both equally more part of the problem than any solution...

You are simply a fearful little Israel Uber Alles nationalist...Judaism is'nt going anywhere soon and you use your ethnic insecurities and fear to justify your Uber Alles attitude..

It's weakminded...

As an aside,you are doing your very best in leaving this country to take up your insecure nationalistic cause on your Mediterranean pile of rocks,though...

And you still have'nt properly explained my moral relativism,Bob...

Edited November 20, 2010 by Jack Weber

[bud]

The moral relativism comes into play when you equate my unapologetic support for Israel's existence as our eternal Jewish homeland with anti-Israel extremists who support terrorism and oppose Jewish self-determination in Israel. All I've said is that I am unwavering and uncompromising on the basic fundamentals of Israel: Jewish independence and self-determination, as well as Jewish cultural preservation and ongoing development. After making such statements, you labelled me as an extremist. That is, in a word: ridiculous.

you've made this so black and white for yourself.

hey, i'm unapologetic for my support israel's right to exist as well. however, i don't support their expansionism and most of their policies towards the palestinians. just like i don't support illegal policies by israel, i also don't support illegal policies and activities by any other organizations or groups, like hamas.

jewish independence and self-determination should not come at the cost of violating international law and human rights.

[bud]

these young people have a lot of balls. kudos to them and anyone else who does not allow nationalism cloud their judgement.

[Rue]

Our Young, Jewish, and Proud leaders made headlines around the world when they disrupted Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's speech at the country's largest gathering of Jewish leaders in New Orleans.

We have struck a nerve among Jews everywhere and among people who care about human rights.

I just finished a post going off on a poster I resent because he makes a point of telling everyone he is Jewish and then spends most of his threads engaging in negative generalizations about all Muslims.

Now I am going to spend this response going off on you for the exact same reason.

Where do you get off telling this Jew the phrase "OUR Young Jewish...leaders

leaders.."

Who the f..ck said they were MY leaders?

Don't come on this forum and engage in stereotypes about Jews

thinking because you are one you can pull that stunt.

You don't speak for me or any other Jew and neither did those youth.

They spoke for their own opinions thank you very much and no I do not

give a sh..t what they think but yes you get on my nerves because

of your Jew baiting.

JBG may be to the right and you the left but you both exploit the Jewish identity to promote your own version of politics and try give yourselves credibility for what you say by tying it to your identity of being a Jew and I call you both out on it.

They are not my leaders. They are not my anything. Neither are you. You don't speak for me or any Jew other then yourself as do they.

Some of us are anti Israel, some us like me are Zionist. Some of us have JBG's views some of them have your views, and some of them have mine. Stop lumping me in a Jew stereotype.

Your being a Jew does not give your opinions any more added importance then it does anyone else.

If someone wants to be anti-Israeli and they are not Jewish their opinions are no less valid than yours simply because you are a Jew who is anti Israeli.

That is a crock.

Likewise JBG by continually referring to himself as a Jew in his posts does not gain some brownie point when he criticizes Muslims by tying it to terrorist Muslims who attack Israel.

Terrorist Muslims no more represent all Muslims then either of you do we Jews. Your religion is not germaine to the issues you spout.

You chose to blur the Jew/Israel line not I. You brought up their religion not I and that is a crock.

Don;t engage in crass tokenism with Jews because that is what you do.

You have something to say Naomi say it but don't toss in the jew like you did. Don't use my identity when it is irrelevant. In fact what you said is down right patronizing and insulting to Jews let alone anyone with any intelligence.

Now you want this Jew's opinion? This Jew is a Zionist. This Jew says I have no problem if somneone wants to criticize Israel state policies. This Jew says I will challenge such criticism if it brings in negative generalizations about all Jews or blurs the criticism against Israel state policies with criticisms directed at any or all Jews.

I criticize you the exact same way I would a gentile for doing the same thing. Take your leftist stereotypes and try put them in some other Jew's face.

I am a Zionist. I believe Jews have a right to universal sufferage and no I do not agree with everything Netanyahu stands for. My bias is well known to readers on this forum. I am a proud Canadian jew and proud to be Canadian and am loyal to Canada first. Then my political sympathies are with Labour Zionism and Kadima not Likud. No I do not go in public and scream at Netanyahu.

No I do not make the ridiculous comments these youths made. I expect them to lose their temper and have tantrums. I expect them to do that because that is what some of our people do. They are afraid to be Zionists and admit they have a distinct identity and they believe if they scream about how bad Zionism is, they will suddenly no longer be seen as Jews and be assimilated and accepted.

All you have done is show the exact opposite. You have shown by parading about your need to point out to everyone you are a Jew and I am a Jew and the baboons having a tantrum that they were Jews, that you need

to compensate for feeling insecure about being a Jew by screaming about it.

I don't need to shove it down anyone's throat nor will I. It is what I am. It is simply who I am. Don't ever presume to tell me who I am again.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Rue

[Jack Weber]

I just finished a post going off on a poster I resent because he makes a point of telling everyone he is Jewish and then spends most of his threads engaging in negative generalizations about all Muslims.

Now I am going to spend this response going off on you for the exact same reason.

Where do you get off telling this Jew the phrase "OUR Young Jewish...leaders

leaders.."

Who the f..ck said they were MY leaders?

Don't come on this forum and engage in stereotypes about Jews

thinking because you are one you can pull that stunt.

You don't speak for me or any other Jew and neither did those youth.

They spoke for their own opinions thank you very much and no I do not

give a sh..t what they think but yes you get on my nerves because

of your Jew baiting.

JBG may be to the right and you the left but you both exploit the Jewish identity to promote your own version of politics and try give yourselves credibility for what you say by tying it to your identity of being a Jew and I call you both out on it.

They are not my leaders. They are not my anything. Neither are you. You don't speak for me or any Jew other then yourself as do they.

Some of us are anti Israel, some us like me are Zionist. Some of us have JBG's views some of them have your views, and some of them have mine. Stop lumping me in a Jew stereotype.

Your being a Jew does not give your opinions any more added importance then it does anyone else.

if someone wants to be anti-Israeli and they are not Jewish their opinions are no less valid than yours simply because you are a Jew who is anti Israeli.

That is a crock.

Likewise JBG by continually referring to himself as a Jew in his posts does not gain some brownie point when he criticizes Muslims by tying it to terrorist Muslims who attack Israel.

Terrorist Muslims no more represent all Muslims then either of you do. Your religion is not germaine to the issues you spout.

You chose to blur the Jew/Israel line not I. You brought up their religion not I and that is a crock.

Don;t engage in crass tokenism with Jews because that is what you do.

You have something to say Naomi say it but don't toss in the jew like you did. Don't use my identity when it is irrelevant. In fact what you said is down right patronizing and insulting to Jews let alone anyone with any intelligence.

Now you want this Jew's opinion? This Jew is a Zionist. This Jew says I have no problem if somneone wants to criticize Israel state policies. This Jew says I will challenge such criticism if it brings in negative generalizations about all Jews or blurs the criticism against Israel state policies with criticisms directed at any or all Jews.

I criticize you the exact same way I would a gentile for doing the same thing. Take your leftist stereotypes and try put them in some other Jew's face.

I am a Zionist. I believe Jews have a right to universal sufferage and no I do not agree with everything Netanyahu stands for. My bias is well known to readers on this forum. I am a proud Canadian jew and proud to be Canadian and am loyal to Canada first. Then my political sympathies are with Labour Zionism and Kadima not Likud. No I do not go in public and scream at Netanyahu.

No I do not make the ridiculous comments these youths made. I expect them to lose their temper and have tantrums. I expect them to do that because that is what some of our people do. They are afraid to be Zionists and admit they have a distinct identity and they believe if they scream about how bad Zionism is, they will suddenly no longer be seen as Jews and be assimilated and accepted.

All you have done is show the exact opposite. You have shown by parading about your need to point out to everyone you are a Jew and I am a Jew and the baboons having a tantrum that they were Jews, that you need

to compensate for feeling insecure about being a Jew by screaming about it.

I don't need to shove it down anyone's throat nor will I. It is what I am. It is simply who I am. Don't ever presume to tell me who I am again.

Could you please line Bobby out???

I tried to but he just hides behind his invective....

[Guest TrueMetis]

I've gotta say Rue, I like you.

[bud]

i'm sure she will respond when or if she sees this. i do know that she is away right now. but after reading your rant, i want to respond to some of your comments.

you ended the rant with:

I don't need to shove it down anyone's throat nor will I. It is what I am. It is simply who I am. Don't ever presume to tell me who I am again.

but just before that you wrote:

No I do not make the ridiculous comments these youths made. I expect them to lose their temper and have tantrums. I expect them to do that because that is what some of our people do. They are afraid to be Zionists and admit they have a distinct identity and they believe if they scream about how bad Zionism is, they will suddenly no longer be seen as Jews and be assimilated and accepted.

heh. seriously. you are a walking contradiction.

you also wrote this about naomi:

You have shown by parading about your need to point out to everyone you are a Jew and I am a Jew and the baboons having a tantrum that they were Jews, that you need to compensate for feeling insecure about being a Jew by screaming about it.

every time i have seen your long-winded posts, you've managed to not only be incoherent, but you've also ended up looking like a total hypocrite.

i know that naomi is part of a group called jewish voice for peace. when she mentions, young leaders, i am certain she is talking about these brave people who are setting an example by standing up against a system that violates human rights, instead of soaking themselves with nationalism and tribalism.

it's okay to be jewish and not excuse and try to justify violations of human rights. some of the biggest leaders in this fight against modern zionism happen to be jewish. people like noam chomsky and norman finkelstein are not insecure about being jewish. rather, they prefer to apply and expect justice and fairness across the board and not only on non-jews.

[M.Dancer]

Schizophrenia strikes everyone..even arab terrorist sympathizers pretending to be jews

[Bob]

Assuming the agitators who disrupted Netanyahu's speech have Jewish heritage, I'd bet that they have very little connection to our faith, culture, and history. You think they have even a basic familiarity with the Tanakh? They more than likely don't know what the Torah, Nevi'im, or Ktoovim are. It's more than likely that they have little to no Jewish education, and that there connection with Judaism begins and ends with their surnames. Just because your last name is Goldman doesn't give you extra credibility when criticizing Israel. Do you really think these agitators are connected to the Jewish community? You think they volunteer or take parts on Jewish cultural outreach? Perhaps some do, but there is a strong correlation between being detached from our people and being opposed to our basic rights. In other words, those Jews who are very out-of-touch with Judaism (faith, culture, and history) are more likely to be anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic. They don't see themselves as different from anyone else, and in fact they're right. Since they're completely disconnected from their identities, and have taken on other identities, they fail to appreciate our distinction and our fundamental national rights. If they don't even see themselves as Jewish (naomiglover her was, at least until recently, very reluctant to reveal her own Jewish heritage), why are we surprised that they don't care one iota about Jewish cultural preservation, ongoing development, independence, and self-determination? These basic rights of the Jewish people don't matter to them because they don't identify with the Jewish people, and they are unconcerned about Jewish survival. They see themselves are Goyim. It's sad, but that's how it is. Even worse is that people like noamiglover often use their Jewish heritage in a malicious way, by implying that they indeed are part of the Jewish people in a meaningful way and that their anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism is rooted in "inside knowledge" about who we are and what we want. Without explicitly saying it, they are implying that they have a unique insight into the Jewish people and Zionism by virtue of their connection to the Jewish community, when in reality they are much closer to the Goyim than to us. Again, just because you have a Jewish last name doesn't mean that you can't be wholly ignorant of Judaism, Zionism, or our history and culture. Many Goyim, though, will assume that these anti-Zionistic Jews are actually in touch with the Jewish community, and that their anti-Zionism is well-informed, when in fact it is as superficial and ignorant as the anti-Zionism of all others.

Please excuse the length of this post and its poor organization.

[Bob]

I hope this doesn't seem unfair, as I do not want to portray myself as the judge of who is or isn't Jewish (I can share with you popular Halaha on this issue, though), but let's venture in, anyways. For those who claim to be Jewish, when's the last time you said tefilla? When's the last time you lit the Shabbat candles? When's the last time you donated to a legitimate Jewish charity? When's the last time you attended a Jewish class (history, religion, food, Kabbalah, or anything) or read a Jewish book? I love my fellow Jews, secular and religious, but for those anti-Zionist Jews who try to leverage their last names as a way to increase their credibility on issues relating to Israel, I wonder if I could distinguish you from the Goyim without knowing your last names. More than likely, these anti-Zionists are indistinguishable from the Goyim. It's sad, but true.

[Peter F]

I hope this doesn't seem unfair, as I do not want to portray myself as the judge of who is or isn't Jewish (I can share with you popular Halaha on this issue, though), but let's venture in, anyways. For those who claim to be Jewish, when's the last time you said tefilla? When's the last time you lit the Shabbat candles? When's the last time you donated to a legitimate Jewish charity? When's the last time you attended a Jewish class (history, religion, food, Kabbalah, or anything) or read a Jewish book? I love my fellow Jews, secular and religious, but for those anti-Zionist Jews who try to leverage their last names as a way to increase their credibility on issues relating to Israel, I wonder if I could distinguish you from the Goyim without knowing your last names. More than likely, these anti-Zionists are indistinguishable from the Goyim. It's sad, but true.

I understand. A persond is a true jew if they agree with Bob. If not then they aren't true jews. If they are not True Jews they are Goyim and the Goyim can be discounted.

[M.Dancer]

30% off Goyim all day at Crazy Eddy's Discount Super Store!