Quebec Arenas & Toronto Summits

[Smallc]

just a coincidence that AB kicks in roughly $8 billion every year, Quiebec gets about $8 billion every year.

Alberta contributes more (we don't know how much Quebec contributes, but it's probably close to $8B) than $8B.....it's still a coincidence.

[capricorn]

I gave you the link from when Toews made the commitment to chip in to build a new stadium for the Bombers. Harper must have been onboard because he never indicated any disagreement with Toews' announcement. They have not reneged on that promise, and Toews showed up at the

earlier this summer. The project is a go, and it's public knowledge around these parts.

I'm sorry that doesn't fit in with your programmed talking points.

Good try, bubber. The money was not committed in order to chip in to build a new stadium for the CFL Bombers. The $15 million was committed for a totally different purpose.

The project includes a $115-million football stadium, while $22.5 million will be spent on fitness facilities for amateur athletics.

The stadium will be built on an eight-hectare site at Chancellor-Matheson Road and University Crescent on the U of M campus. An inflatable dome will cover the field in winter so university teams can use it during the CFL off-season.

In addition to the stadium, the site will feature a multiplex athletic facility for the university and its Bison sports teams.

It will include a refurbished university stadium and new fitness centre.

The proposal for the stadium and related facilities was first announced in April 2009 by Winnipeg business magnate David Asper, who agreed to pay $100 million towards the project and take ownership of the team.

In return, the federal government pledged $15 million — for the amateur sport component of the facility — and the Manitoba government offered up $20 million.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2010/03/31/mb-bomber-stadium-winnipeg.html

Signed agreements will provide for:

$35 million in joint support from the Government of Canada and Province of Manitoba.

Federal funding will be strictly limited to the amateur and community sport venues.

Acquisition of Winnipeg Blue Bombers with change in ownership slated for early 2010.

Multi-year land lease by UM, subject to final approval by its Board of Governors.

Sale of existing stadium site at fair market value, subject to final approval by City Council.

http://football.ballparks.com/CFL/Winnipeg/newindex.htm

Asper has committed $100 million in private money to building the new stadium, while the federal government has pledged $15 million and the Manitoba government is putting up $20 million.

The federal component of the funding will be used exclusively for the amateur sports facilities.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2009/04/02/mb-bombers-sold.html

What the feds are funding are venues that will be used for amateur sports exclusively, not the CFL. Do you want more links that explain that it is a large sports venue on a large expanse of land that will accommodate many types of activities, including amateur sports. Do you oppose investments to encourage amateur sports? I don't.

By the way bubber, I'm still waiting for that link where Harper said he supported federal funding for a new arena for the Bombers, as you implied.

And BTW, if I were a party-bot myself, I would support at least one party. I don't particularly care for any of them.

I hope this does not discourage you from voting.

Edited September 14, 2010 by capricorn

[capricorn]

People who slavishly devote their lives to the brand identity that is the party system should be branded as PartyBots...

You speak as if you've discovered a revolutionary concept.

[BubberMiley]

Do you oppose investments to encourage amateur sports? I don't.

Do you oppose blatant political manouevres to make a 30,000 seat CFL stadium seem like an "amateur sport facility"? I do.

[capricorn]

Do you oppose blatant political manouevres to make a 30,000 seat CFL stadium seem like an "amateur sport facility"? I do.

You clearly have a problem with facts. Oh well...

By the way bubber, I'm still waiting for that link where Harper said he supported federal funding for a new arena for the Bombers, as you implied.

[BubberMiley]

By the way bubber, I'm still waiting for that link where Harper said he supported federal funding for a new arena for the Bombers, as you implied.

They play football in stadiums, not arenas. I assumed Harper supported the money going to the stadium because his government provided it. Are you trying to imply he doesn't know what's going on in his government? That seems like a bizarre approach to the argument. Maybe your code is messed up. When was your last scheduled update?

[capricorn]

They play football in stadiums, not arenas.

Of course. How silly of me not to know the difference.

I assumed Harper supported the money going to the stadium because his government provided it.

So you finally admit that you have nothing to back up your assumption that Harper supported funding a CFL stadium. That's progress. The funding did not go to the stadium but to sporting facilities built on the same 8 hectares of land on which the stadium stands.

The stadium will be built on an eight-hectare site at Chancellor-Matheson Road and University Crescent.

In addition to the stadium, the site will feature a multiplex athletic facility for the university and its Bison sports teams.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2010/04/07/bomber-stadium.html

In case you don't know, bison sports teams are amateur sports, such as basketball, football, soccer, swimming, track and field, volleyball, etc, all played on the 8 hectare site designed to accommodate all those sports.

http://gobisons.ca/index.php?page=news&id=1239

[BubberMiley]

So you finally admit that you have nothing to back up your assumption that Harper supported funding a CFL stadium.

I have reality to back me up. You can take refuge in a shell game that makes a CFL stadium not look like a CFL stadium. You might try the same trick in Quebec. They can let amateur hockey teams use the arena during off hours too, and then you can pretend they aren't total hypocrites when they criticize the Liberals for funding the same sorts of projects.

[capricorn]

I have reality to back me up.

Your reality is not proof. You simply made it up thinking that no one would call you on it.

[BubberMiley]

Your reality is not proof. You simply made it up thinking that no one would call you on it.

Do you actually think Toews could commit money to a project and get it done if Harper disapproved of it?

[capricorn]

Do you actually think Toews could commit money to a project and get it done if Harper disapproved of it?

In post #34 you said that Harper made a commitment to fund a new stadium for the Bombers. I have repeatedly asked you for proof that Harper made this commitment. Here is what you said.

More accurately, when he feels the heat of negative media attention, he sends the message that the government does not intend to fund professional sports.

Meanwhile, his commitment to help build a new stadium for the Bombers is in place because there was no outcry and he thought it could win them votes.

It's a very simple question. Where is your proof that Harper made a commitment to help build a new stadium in Winnipeg for the CFL's Bombers?

Edited September 15, 2010 by capricorn

[BubberMiley]

It's a very simple question. Where is your proof that Harper made a commitment to help build a new stadium in Winnipeg for the CFL's Bombers?

Post #52 where you cited his government's commitment to help build a new stadium in Winnipeg for the CFL's Bombers.

Edited September 15, 2010 by BubberMiley

[capricorn]

Post #52 where you cited his government's commitment to help build a new stadium in Winnipeg for the CFL's Bombers.

Fail. That's not a commitment to build a new stadium in Winnipeg for the Bombers. Try again. Where is Harper's commitment to assign funds for a CFL stadium?

[capricorn]

Post #52 where you cited his government's commitment to help build a new stadium in Winnipeg for the CFL's Bombers.

The new stadium cost is 115 million. The province provides 105 million and Asper the balance.

PROVINCE TO PROVIDE FUNDS FOR CFL STADIUM

April 8, 2010

Copyright 2009 MediaVentures

Winnipeg, Manitoba - Manitoba officials have pledged a total of C$105 million toward a new 33,000-seat stadium for the CFL Blue Bombers in Winnipeg. The venue will cost a total of C$115 million with team owner David Asper funding the balance.

The Blue Bombers are now expected to move into the new stadium located at the University of Manitoba by 2012. Workers will then demolish Canad Inn Stadium and erect in its place an upscale retail mall called The Elms by 2014.

Under the deal, if Asper can leverage the new shopping complex to repay $90 million to the province by 2016, he wins total control of the team and the new facility.

If he can't meet the full loan within six years, a community organization would retain Bomber ownership. The province would then invoke contentious tax incremental financing (TIF) to make up the loan shortfall. Under TIF, the province would divert the tax bill for the Canad Inn site towards loan payments rather than general revenue.

Asper said between 50 and 60 retailers have already expressed interest in his 650,000-square-foot shopping center. Even so, he's had difficulty wringing hard commitments from potential storeowners - partly due to the economic climate and partly due to the deal's uncertain time frame.

"We got caught in kind of a Gordian Knot," said Asper. "I couldn't get commitments from the retailers because I couldn't give them a hard date for construction. That's when the premier came and offered bridge financing to unlock the retail part. That removed the logjam."

http://football.ballparks.com/CFL/Winnipeg/newindex.htm

Note: No federal money for the new stadium. No Harper commitment for the new Bombers stadium. Do you get it yet bubber?

[BubberMiley]

Note: No federal money for the new stadium. No Harper commitment for the new Bombers stadium. Do you get it yet bubber?

I never saw someone fall so wholeheartedly for a shell game before. I guess you have to be terribly naive to be a party-bot.

I'll ask again because you avoided the question the first time: If they let an amateur team play once in a while in the new Quebec arena, does that mean the federal government wouldn't be contributing towards an NHL arena?

Edited September 15, 2010 by BubberMiley

[capricorn]

I never saw someone fall so wholeheartedly for a shell game before. I guess you have to be terribly naive to be a party-bot.

I never saw someone work so hard to avoid dealing with the facts and to accept being proved wrong.

I'll ask again because you avoided the question the first time: If they let an amateur team play once in a while in the new Quebec arena, does that mean the federal government wouldn't be contributing towards an NHL arena?

Please direct me to the post where you asked that question the first time. As it is worded above, it makes no sense.