Four Israelis shot dead in West Bank in unprovoked terrorist attack

[naomiglover]

Maybe she's talking about the Palestinians who sell their land to Jews....and are given the death penalty for their stand.

Some have no shame in how far they will go in their dishonesty.

Tell me Dancer, of all the illegal settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem (considered illegal by International Court of Justice) how many were sold by Palestinians to Jews and how much of it was confiscated and stolen by Israel?

[DogOnPorch]

Some have no shame in how far they will go in their dishonesty.

Tell me Dancer, of all the illegal settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem (considered illegal by International Court of Justice) how many were sold by Palestinians to Jews and how much of it was confiscated and stolen by Israel?

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=295550

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/131090

http://www.slate.com/id/1059/

http://www.hvk.org/articles/0597/0210.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_land_laws

[M.Dancer]

Some have no shame in how far they will go in their dishonesty.

Are you okay with the death penalty for selling to jews or you don't believe they face the death penalty.

[naomiglover]

Are you okay with the death penalty for selling to jews or you don't believe they face the death penalty.

Any type of punishment, for selling property to anyone is wrong. I am not selective like you and will admit to any wrongs on any side.

There are many stupid things the Palestinians do, but this does not change the fact that their land is being stolen from them. Like mentioned before, you can't use the 'selling property' excuse, since it's only a small fraction of all the land that has been stolen from them by force.

Why do you defend these illegal settlements and occupation? I guess you're back-tracking and no longer care what the International Court (ICJ) has ruled, since you were taught that the ICJ finds the settlements in both the West Bank and East Jerusalem to be illegal.

[Oleg Bach]

Maybe she's talking about the Palestinians who sell their land to Jews....and are given the death penalty for their stand.

There really is no "stand" based in any principle other than real estate and cold hard cash - this problem has existed for two thousand years - Jesus Christ was the rightful owner of the royal lands seeing he was the rightful heir to the throne of Judea (king of the Jews) - all this stuff about being god or subverting the state was all hog wash - the stealing of land from the righful stewards and owners is now a tradtion - Pontius Pilate knew that he was the king - and he facilitated the murder of this grand uncrowned king - just to please and appease the interlopers who were not even Judeans - who wanted Jesus dead so they could take over the area.

"Those that call themselves Jews (Judeans) are not but of the synagog (gathering) of Satan (liar) - it seems the area has been cursed by a royal curse for over 2000 years now - YOU DO NOT KILL A GOOD KING AND STEAL HIS LAND...LOOKS LIKE NOBODY GETS TO HAVE THE LAND OR PEACE - PERHAPS THE ROMANS SHOULD SEND A FORMAL APOLOGY TO CHRIST?

[Guest American Woman]

Any type of punishment, for selling property to anyone is wrong. I am not selective like you and will admit to any wrongs on any side.

Yes, of course you will.

There are many stupid things the Palestinians do,

Yes, the Palestinians can be quite "stupid," unlike the "evil" Israelis. For example, Hamas, part of the Palestinian government, elected government, celebrating the premeditated, deliberate death of civilians, the targeting of civilians, calling such murders "heroic," is "stupid," right? And you, being oh-so-fair-minded will "admit" that.

I know it's not a laughing matter, but .... again .... because it's what the stupidity, the ignorance, of your view of yourself calls for. As you throw accusations ... names ... insults ... at everyone else.

[naomiglover]

Yes, of course you will.

Yes, the Palestinians can be quite "stupid," unlike the "evil" Israelis. For example, Hamas, part of the Palestinian government, elected government, celebrating the premeditated, deliberate death of civilians, the targeting of civilians, calling such murders "heroic," is "stupid," right? And you, being oh-so-fair-minded will "admit" that.

I know it's not a laughing matter, but .... again .... because it's what the stupidity, the ignorance, of your view of yourself calls for. As you throw accusations ... names ... insults ... at everyone else.

Settle down American Woman. Your over usage of emoticons and babbling is not going to win you any points. It only makes you look mentally unstable.

Killing civilians is wrong. Both Hamas and the IDF have done it. Both have purposely targeted civilians. Contrary to the picture you have tried to portray, it has been concluded through several different investigations, and by the IDF soliders' own admission that the IDF has targeted and killed Palestinian civilians. Many of them.

There has been cheering and celebrations on both sides for these killings.

I condemn both acts.

You, Bonam, Dancer and the rest of the hasbara-bots only condemn one of them. Why is that?

For some reason, the killing Palestinian civilians is nowhere in your moral and ethical radar and instead of condemning it, you try to justify it.

[Bonam]

There are many stupid things the Palestinians do, but this does not change the fact that their land is being stolen from them. Like mentioned before, you can't use the 'selling property' excuse, since it's only a small fraction of all the land that has been stolen from them by force.

Naomi, you really need to learn the difference between something being "stupid" and something being deeply morally "wrong". The videos you posted earlier were of people doing "stupid" things, whereas the shootings are an atrocity.

Now as for the settlements, they are a bad idea, they are a focal point of violence and hostility and will only cause greater problems if/when a final status agreement is ever reached. I have no qualms with stating that the majority of settlements are a mistake. But building something on some land and then living in it, even if the status of that land is in question, is still not even remotely comparable to the deliberate killing of innocent civilians, in this case including a pregnant women and a mother of six.

In regards to killings of civilians, when the IDF does this, it is as part of a military campaign, typically part of a retaliatory action for some violence committed by terrorist groups against Israel. Civilians die during military confrontations. Killings of civilians in war are tragic but cannot always be fully avoided. Those of us without a rabid focus on a crazy agenda understand this. Hamas, on the other hand, attacks out of the blue and sends its murderous goons to brutally gun down innocent civilians as a purely political move intended to derail peace negotiations. Negotiations, by the way, whose intent it is is to create a sovereign Palestinian state. Though the casualties may be lower, the level of "evil" inherent in these Hamas actions eclipses anything the IDF has ever done (that I am aware of).

Edited September 3, 2010 by Bonam

[Guest American Woman]

Settle down American Woman. Your over usage of emoticons and babbling is not going to win you any points. It only makes you look mentally unstable.

Yes. Of course. Mentally unstable. Because you said so.

:lol:

Killing civilians is wrong. Both Hamas and the IDF have done it. Both have purposely targeted civilians. Contrary to the picture you have tried to portray, it has been concluded through several different investigations, and by the IDF soliders' own admission that the IDF has targeted and killed Palestinian civilians. Many of them.

So show me a similar situation. It shouldn't be difficult in light of your claims. Show me where Israelis have purposely sought out and murdered Palestinians. And then show me where Israelis celebrated the civilian deaths. Show me where any part of the Israeli government has cheered it on. Called it "heroic."

There has been cheering and celebrations on both sides for these killings.

I condemn both acts.

Of course you do. "But" ..... eh?

You, Bonam, Dancer and the rest of the hasbara-bots only condemn one of them. Why is that?

Because you're an idiot? I really don't know. You'll have to tell me why you think the way you do, because I sure don't have a clue.

For some reason, the killing Palestinian civilians is nowhere in your moral and ethical radar and instead of condemning it, you try to justify it.

This is moronic/ignorant/dishonest beyond words. You have no ethics. No morals. That you would claim such an outright lie speaks volumes about you. And it ain't pretty. I will, however, waste no more time with you, refuting your lies. It's a waste of time and energy, and quite frankly, you're not worth it.

Edited September 3, 2010 by American Woman

[naomiglover]

...

Edited September 3, 2010 by naomiglover

[Bonam]

This is moronic/ignorant/dishonest beyond words. You have no ethics. No morals. That you would claim such an outright lie speaks volumes about you. And it ain't pretty. I will, however, waste no more time with you, refuting your lies. It's a waste of time and energy, and quite frankly, you're not worth it.

It might not be worth it in terms of the lack of effect on naomi's flawed position, but such discussion can nevertheless shed light on the situation and affect the opinions of other readers. In the example of this forum, I think fewer people than ever are on board with naomi's view of the Arab-Israeli conflict, largely as a result of the many threads that naomi started on the topic and the rational rebuttals presented by many posters.

[naomiglover]

Chapter 11 of the Goldstone Report

Deliberate Attacks against the Civilian Population

Link

[naomiglover]

Israeli soldiers admit to deliberate killing of Gaza civilians

The soldiers’ testimonies include accounts of an unarmed old woman being shot at a distance of 100 yards, a woman and her two children being killed after Israeli soldiers ordered them from their house into the line of fire of a sniper and soldiers clearing houses by shooting anyone they encountered on sight.

...

“That’s the beauty of Gaza. You see a man walking, he doesn’t have to have a weapon, and you can shoot him,” one soldier told Danny Zamir, the head of the Rabin pre-military academy, who asked him why a company commander ordered an elderly woman to be shot.

...

"When we entered a house, we were supposed to bust down the door and start shooting inside and just go up storey by storey… I call that murder. Each storey, if we identify a person, we shoot them. I asked myself – how is this reasonable?"

Link

[DogOnPorch]

It might not be worth it in terms of the lack of effect on naomi's flawed position, but such discussion can nevertheless shed light on the situation and affect the opinions of other readers. In the example of this forum, I think fewer people than ever are on board with naomi's view of the Arab-Israeli conflict, largely as a result of the many threads that naomi started on the topic and the rational rebuttals presented by many posters.

Yeah...like Hamas not evacuating Gaza City or bothering with wee things like civil defence...for those other than Hamas big-wigs, that is. Tends to play hell with civilians...using them as sand-bags. But most here know that Hamas enjoys a dead Palestinian civilian as long as Pallywood is there to film it.

Edited September 3, 2010 by DogOnPorch

[Guest American Woman]

It might not be worth it in terms of the lack of effect on naomi's flawed position, but such discussion can nevertheless shed light on the situation and affect the opinions of other readers. In the example of this forum, I think fewer people than ever are on board with naomi's view of the Arab-Israeli conflict, largely as a result of the many threads that naomi started on the topic and the rational rebuttals presented by many posters.

I have to agree with you. In fact, I've said as much myself regarding where I am coming from. If someone starts 60+ one-sided threads about any topic, I question their 'impartiality' regarding the topic and call them on it. Naomiglover is in a class all her own, though, since no one here has started anywhere near the number of threads about Palestine she has started about Israel; and in refuting her "babble" (to use her favorite word), I have, as previously stated, re-examined my views; and if this type of mentality is what Israel is up against, then I'm inclined to question the mentality of Israel's "critics," re-examine the issue, and see the criticism/condemnation as unjustified as a whole.

[dre]

In the example of this forum, I think fewer people than ever are on board with naomi's view of the Arab-Israeli conflict, largely as a result of the many threads that naomi started on the topic and the rational rebuttals presented by many posters.

I could count the number of rational informed posts on this topic on one hand. Really what we have here is a bunch of sports fans, that ignore everything that doesnt fit their preconcieved notions.

The quality of the Israel/Palestine threads around here is about as good as the quality of the NYC Mosque threads.

[DogOnPorch]

I could count the number of rational informed posts on this topic on one hand. Really what we have here is a bunch of sports fans, that ignore everything that doesnt fit their preconcieved notions.

The quality of the Israel/Palestine threads around here is about as good as the quality of the NYC Mosque threads.

Thank-you for allowing us to bask in your gentle glow, oh great one!

[Bonam]

I could count the number of rational informed posts on this topic on one hand. Really what we have here is a bunch of sports fans, that ignore everything that doesnt fit their preconcieved notions.

The quality of the Israel/Palestine threads around here is about as good as the quality of the NYC Mosque threads.

Oh, and just how are you able to determine who is "informed" and who is not? Is it because you are such a learned scholar on the subject yourself? By the way, many "sports fans" are very well informed about the sports they are enthusiastic about, for example, they often memorize vast lists of statistics on the subject.

[Guest American Woman]

Thank-you for allowing us to bask in your gentle glow, oh great one!

I think I have to agree about the quality of the threads in question, though, given his propensity to keep adding his two-cents worth. Any thread he can't tear himself away from does tend to deteriorate ..... rather quickly.

Edited September 3, 2010 by American Woman

[DogOnPorch]

I think I have to agree about the quality of the threads in question, though, given his propensity to keep adding his two-cents worth. Any thread he can't tear himself away from does tend to deteriorate ..... rather quickly.

That's what you get with folks whose history time-line begins on June 11th, 1967.

[dre]

Thank-you for allowing us to bask in your gentle glow, oh great one!

Yeah no sweat I guess.

[DogOnPorch]

Yeah no sweat I guess.

He replied to me! Thank-you. Thank-you. Thank-you. I'm never washing this keyboard again!

(the great one replied to ME!)

[Guest American Woman]

:lol:

Now if we could just figure out how to get him to NOT respond, we'd be on to something .....

[naomiglover]

Yes. There you go. Nothing to see here. Let us pretend that Israeli soldiers have not deliberately killed Palestinian civilians and that you are not a bunch of hypocrites with your crocodile tears over civilian deaths.

[DogOnPorch]

Yes. There you go. Nothing to see here. Let us pretend that Israeli soldiers have not deliberately killed Palestinian civilians and that you are not a bunch of hypocrites with your crocodile tears over civilian deaths.

Yes. There you go. Let's pretend the Palestinian cause isn't rooted in fascism and National Socialism.