Australia to dump British monarchy - we should do the same!

[Smallc]

What exactly would Canada gain?

[maple_leafs182]

Highly unlikely: The Crown is too deeply embedded in our constitution and is too central to the way our federation is set up. Removing it will require nation-wide reorganisation that will see the provinces lose their equal status with the federal sphere. Good luck getting all ten to agree to that, especially for no good reason.

We got time, we really aren't doing anything else right now.

And as I just said, the queen owns the Bank of Canada, that isn't a small thing. The BoC controls our currency and our economy.

[Wild Bill]

Thank you. With the help of millions of new immigrants that have the same ideas about monarchy as I do, we'll shape it to fit the described image.

You know, when I was a boy most folks in my neighbourhood were long time Canadians. My mother's side goes back to the 1690's, when the good ship Hector landed in Pictou, Nova Scotia. My grandfather had come to Canada around the turn of the century.

We had a few immigrant neighbours, mostly from war torn Europe. They were good people and in the main blended into our core culture rather quickly. Of course, they had some customs of their own they practiced at home and among themselves but as far as the public view went they were glad to become loyal Canadians and adopt our culture.

We were proud of our British Heritage and cheerfully sang God Save the Queen.

In the late 60's and early 70's the "powers that be" decided to open wide the immigration gates. We welcomed them in! Then came the idea of official multiculturalism, where the government encouraged immigrants to preserve their old culture and downgraded the importance of our incumbent one.

Now someone like you openly cries for all the new immigrants to forever change our country into a republic, dumping our Queen and with her all traces of our British heritage.

You know something? Attitudes like that are the cause of much of the anti-immigrant resentment growing today! I'll bet a lot of racist extremists are cheering folks like you on! They love to see you stir the pot!

I've never been a strong monarchist but enough is enough. Maybe you can get enough immigrants involved to achieve your goal, I don't know. I DO know that it will be a cold day in Hell before you'd ever get MY vote!

Edited August 17, 2010 by Wild Bill

[PoliticalCitizen]

Ah, I see, so the quick solution to the obvious problem that most First Nations are in fact Monarchists is to say most of 'em are dead, so who cares. What an auspicious start to the new Republic, by a little Indian stomping.

Huh?

That's certainly not the way their ancestors felt. I have no idea how the Quebecois feel about that. Neither, I suspect, do you.

Well your suspicion is wrong, my friend. Have you ever been to Quebec city?

They're swearing loyalty to the Canadian Queen. There is a pretty substantial difference.

As I said before - unless she was born in Canada, of Canadian ancestry and lives here she's not Canadian.

I don't recall the Queen demanding me lick Her boots. And, by definition, heads of state are hardly equal with average citizens, no matter how much we may pretend otherwise.

So subservience is in your blood... I think I begin to understand the royalists...

Can you name one solid structural reason to move away from the Monarchy. I'm not talking about the pretensions and hyperbole you put forward, but pure political mechanics. I want to know why we should open the Constitution, put at risk our national unity, just to name someone else head of state. Are you proposing a different kind of republic; presidential, semi-presidential, otherwise?

National unity???

You've never even spoken to a Quebequois, have you?

Give me something other than anti-monarchist platitudes.

A Canadian President should be the head of state. Power should be shared between the President and the PM.

[g_bambino]

We got time, we really aren't doing anything else right now.

You missed the point entirely: with no good - Hell, even logical - reason to change, you're going to convince nobody to make the necessary sacrifices to achieve what you suggest.

[PoliticalCitizen]

You know, when I was a boy most folks in my neighbourhood were long time Canadians. My mother's side goes back to the 1690's, when the good ship Hector landed in Pictou, Nova Scotia. My grandfather had come to Canada around the turn of the century.

We had a few immigrant neighbours, mostly from war torn Europe. They were good people and in the main blended into our core culture rather quickly. Of course, they had some customs of their own they practiced at home and among themselves but as far as the public view went they were glad to become loyal Canadians and adopt our culture.

We were proud of our British Heritage and cheerfully sang God Save the Queen.

In the late 60's and early 70's the "powers that be" decided to open wide the immigration gates. We welcomed them in! Then came the idea of official multiculturalism, where the government encouraged immigrants to preserve their old culture and downgraded the importance of our incumbent one.

Now someone like you openly cries for all the new immigrants to forever change our country into a republic, dumping our Queen and with her all traces of our British heritage.

You know something? Attitudes like that are the cause of much of the anti-immigrant resentment growing today! I'll bet a lot of racist extremists are cheering folks like you on! They love to see you stir the pot!

I've never been a strong monarchist but enough is enough. Maybe you can get enough immigrants involved to achieve your goal, I don't know. I DO know that it will be a cold day in Hell before you'd ever get MY vote!

Don't take it too close to the heart, Wild Bill. At least I speak (and read and write) English; some neighborhoods around here are all-Mandarin.

[g_bambino]

As I said before - unless she was born in Canada, of Canadian ancestry and lives here she's not Canadian.

Ah, so you're the one who gets to say who's Canadian and who's not. I never knew that.

[maple_leafs182]

You missed the point entirely: with no good - Hell, even logical - reason to change, you're going to convince nobody to make the necessary sacrifices to achieve what you suggest.

I don't think we would need to make any sacrifices. I don't see how things could possibly get worse or why we would try to make a republic system that makes us less equal.

I'm going to say this again, the Queen owns the Bank of Canada. Do you not understand the significance of that.

[M.Dancer]

I'm going to say this again, the Queen owns the Bank of Canada. Do you not understand the significance of that.

Yes. It means you are a fruitcake.

[PoliticalCitizen]

I'm pretty sure a Commonwealth country knew before now that it wasn't a colony anymore. In fact, Canada did just that quite some time ago.

Given such facts: if we're not a colony and don't bow to foreign masters, why are you slobbering on about the monarchy being foreign and us living in servitude?

Your queen doesn't live here. Her empire, now crumbling, colonized this land.

To be completely free we need to get rid of the shackles, as token as they may be.

[PoliticalCitizen]

Ah, so you're the one who gets to say who's Canadian and who's not. I never knew that.

I'm not your king, and she's not a citizen of any country.

[PoliticalCitizen]

What exactly would Canada gain?

Complete independence. True identity.

[M.Dancer]

Complete independence. True identity.

Oz didn't give anything to the tinman, nothing that he didn't, didn't already have.

[Smallc]

Complete independence. True identity.

We already have both of those things. What would Canada gain?

[maple_leafs182]

Yes. It means you are a fruitcake.

As of 1993 our Federal debt was around 350 billion Dollars, only 37 billion was actually spent on goods and services, the other 300 + billion comes from compounded interest. The Country is being robbed of its wealth.

You should really learn the monetary policies of the world, it will change your perspective of things.

[M.Dancer]

As of 1993 our Federal debt was around 350 billion Dollars, only 37 billion was actually spent on goods and services, the other 300 + billion comes from compounded interest. The Country is being robbed of its wealth.

You should really learn the monetary policies of the world, it will change your perspective of things.

That has zero to do with your ridiculous claim. You should really try catching and staying on the train of thought...

[PoliticalCitizen]

We already have both of those things. What would Canada gain?

A slave branded by his master is forced to bear the brand even after gaining freedom. His children do not have to bear the brand.

[Smallc]

A slave branded by his master is forced to bear the brand even after gaining freedom. His children do not have to bear the brand.

[maple_leafs182]

That has zero to do with your ridiculous claim. You should really try catching and staying on the train of thought...

The Bank of Canada is owned by the Queen, her institution is directly robbing us of our wealth. Why would we want ties to a monarch that would impose an institution like the Bank of Canada on its people. Get it?

[PoliticalCitizen]

It may be hard to understand without perspective.

[M.Dancer]

The Bank of Canada is owned by the Queen..... Get it?

Yes, I already noted you are a fruitcake....nothing will convince you short of a UFO disgourging former governors of the bank to set you straight....not even facts

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/bank-canada

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/faq/faq_bank_roles.html#3

[maple_leafs182]

17. (1) The capital of the Bank shall be five million dollars but may be increased from time to time pursuant to a resolution passed by the Board of Directors and approved by the Governor in Council and by Parliament.

Shares

(2) The capital shall be divided into one hundred thousand shares of the par value of fifty dollars each, which shall be issued to the Minister to be held by the Minister on behalf of Her Majesty in right of Canada.

That is straight from the Bank of Canada Act.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/B-2/page-5.html#anchorbo-ga:s_17

The Queen does own the bank.

We do over over 300 billion in compounded interest, we are being robbed.

[g_bambino]

I don't think we would need to make any sacrifices. I don't see how things could possibly get worse or why we would try to make a republic system that makes us less equal.

See, you're not reading what I write. I didn't say a republic would make "us" less equal, I said the provinces would lose their equal status vis-a-vis Ottawa; a president as the head of state would be an agent solely of Ottawa and thus unable to preside in each jurisdiction equally as the Queen reigns in them now.

[F]ederalism in Canada is very much about the Crown. Elsewhere, I have described the Canadian federation as one of compound monarchies. From being perceived as an institution amenable to enforcing Sir John A. Macdonald's highly centralized federal ambitions, the Crown came to underwrite the autonomy of the provinces and thus lay the foundation for the federative principle in Canada. This is the explanation for the strength of executive federalism in Canada and why Canada differs so markedly from its neighbour, the United States...

The Crown and the Constitution: Sustaining Democracy?; Smith, David E.

Since the Queen transcends and encompasses both the central and provincial governments, the Canadian headship of state is not a creature of either jurisdiction. Through the offices of the Governor General and the Lieutenant Governor, the Queen reigns impartially over Confederation as a whole.

The Canadian Monarchy in Saskatchewan; Jackson, Michael D.

In Australia, hesitations associated with the adoption of a republican form of government revolve in part around a perceived threat to federalism. David E. Smith quotes a former Chief Justice of the High Court, who contended that "the legal complexities associated with a change to a republic involve difficult questions that go to the very heart of the federation." In Canada, "whether or not tension between republicanism and federalism is endemic is not the point," says Dr. Smith. "For a country like Canada, where federalism is the bedrock of national existence, the possibility that the two systems are incompatible is enough to prompt unease" (Smith, D. E., 1999, 220-221).

The Crown in the Provinces: Canada's Compound Monarchy; Jackson, Michael D., Haverstock, Lynda

No federal republic in the world grants its constituent parts as much autonomy as our provinces have now. So, again, without good reason for change, you're going to fail to convince anyone to even bother trying to alter the present arrangements.

I'm going to say this again, the Queen owns the Bank of Canada. Do you not understand the significance of that.

Not to this discussion, no.

[g_bambino]

To be completely free we need to get rid of the shackles, as token as they may be.

A country is either free or it isn't. You've admitted Canada is, so, again: if we're not a colony and don't bow to foreign masters, why are you slobbering on about the monarchy being foreign and us living in servitude?

I'm not your king, and she's not a citizen of any country.

I know and I know. So what? You still seem to have counselled yourself and decided you're the granter of Canadian designation. And I still find that interesting.

[+]

Edited August 17, 2010 by g_bambino

[g_bambino]

Is that the foreign queen peering out from the vaults of the Bank of Canada?