Developer charged in razing of 118 moraine trees

[grainfedprairieboy]

It appears that it is cheaper and easier to destroy than develop within the public trust and this destruction was done deliberately. If so, they should get a 100k fine per tree.

Yup, that's the way the law should work. Established fines, sentences and penalties should exist only for those who don't break the law willingly or who may be innocent but for those who willingly and knowingly commit an offence, well by golly to Hell with Canadian jurisprudence and 800 years of British Common Law and legal tradition, we'll all just invent illegitimate penalties that reflect our manufactured outrage like some provincial Human Rights Commission would.

While the actions of the company may be deemed inappropriate, they operated within the boundary of the law accepting that the penalty for early excavation was less then the penalty imposed by the delay inherent in bureaucratic red tape. The natural Canadian response of course, is to increase the pain of penalties to exceed the red tape when what we should be endeavouring is to minimise red tape with clear and concise development criteria prior to any application for a development permit.

[charter.rights]

While the actions of the company may be deemed inappropriate, they operated within the boundary of the law accepting that the penalty for early excavation was less then the penalty imposed by the delay inherent in bureaucratic red tape.

Right. It is okay to break the law if it is going to save you some money. That's what's wrong in Canada. It is real easy to justify corruption and illegal actions when it doesn't cost the corporation that much.

Richmond Hill has been identified as the Oak Ridges Moraine and Ontario's Greenbelt area which is a legal recognition that the area recharges most of southern Ontario's water supply. Unless action is taken to prevent the destruction of this valuable habitat and to prosecute the offenders to the full extent of the law (including jail time for corporate Directors and Officers) we are doomed. We might just as well go back to Europe where we contaminated our drinking water so badly from pissing and crapping in it, that beer was the only thing drinkable. I guess 'better drunk than wise' is a typical Albertan line of thinking.

[grainfedprairieboy]

Right. It is okay to break the law if it is going to save you some money. That's what's wrong in Canada. It is real easy to justify corruption and illegal actions when it doesn't cost the corporation that much.

And somehow this skulduggery magically disappears when judges and bureaucrats are afforded the ability to establish their own penalties based on their personal outrage? Give your head a shake.

Richmond Hill has been identified as the Oak Ridges Moraine and Ontario's Greenbelt area which is a legal recognition that the area recharges most of southern Ontario's water supply. Unless action is taken to prevent the destruction of this valuable habitat and to prosecute the offenders to the full extent of the law (including jail time for corporate Directors and Officers) we are doomed. We might just as well go back to Europe where we contaminated our drinking water so badly from pissing and crapping in it, that beer was the only thing drinkable.

Then I suggest you take a hard look at what sort of urban environment you desire. If all taxpayers in Ontario did not subsidise the production of electricity and water and users ultimately payed the actual rate consumption would be reduced dramatically. If immigration was curtailed where individual global carbon footprints from Africa are transferred to Toronto at rate of a 600X increase per new arrival then perhaps the strain of development wouldn't be such a problem.

More-so, perhaps making Toronto itself an adult only community for well heeled 20-55 year old DINKS such as Vancouver or Whistler, and relegating the drones and breeders to distant suburbs only to transit to your community to fix your roads, cook your food or collect your garbage is a more acceptable solution............again, based on the Van/Whistler model.

I guess 'better drunk than wise' is a typical Albertan line of thinking.

We officially prefer the 3S's: "shoot, shovel, shut up".

Edited October 13, 2010 by grainfedprairieboy

[Shwa]

The natural Canadian response of course, is to increase the pain of penalties to exceed the red tape when what we should be endeavouring is to minimise red tape with clear and concise development criteria prior to any application for a development permit.

No, the natural Canadian response "of course" is to protect sensitive lands which is why there are laws on the books about it.

Of course, had you not been fed the prairie grain after it had fermented, you might have realized this.

[grainfedprairieboy]

No, the natural Canadian response "of course" is to protect sensitive lands which is why there are laws on the books about it.

Of course, had you not been fed the prairie grain after it had fermented, you might have realized this.

Obviously the aliens neglected to remove your anal probe otherwise you'd clearly see I am not opposed to the protection of sensitive areas but rather opposed to asinine bureaucratic nonsense that leads developers into that direction.

Edited October 13, 2010 by grainfedprairieboy

[Shwa]

Obviously the aliens neglected to remove your anal probe otherwise you'd clearly see I am not opposed to the protection of sensitive areas but rather opposed to asinine bureaucratic nonsense that leads developers into that direction.

Riiiight. It is the "asinine bureaucratic nonsense" that is to blame for developer's poor ethical behaviour because they made it easy for them to harm the environment.

The only anal probe in this discussion is the one sticking out from your face.

[grainfedprairieboy]

Riiiight. It is the "asinine bureaucratic nonsense" that is to blame for developer's poor ethical behaviour because they made it easy for them to harm the environment.

The only anal probe in this discussion is the one sticking out from your face.

You're a Liberal so I'll try and type slower with smaller words so you can hopefully manage to understand.

In Canada we have many laws, some are perceived as good and others are not but all are ostensibly designed to steer behaviour within a boundary most accepted by society. Within those laws there are provisions for penalties should someone choose to violate their spirit or intent whether that is deliberate or accidental. These penalties again range from nothing to a life time incarceration and any varying amounts of financial penalties.

In order to respect our own judiciary, we cannot arbitrarily assign wholly new penalties after the fact simply because you feel that is the right thing to do and it helps to assuage your anger. So in even simpler terms, you cannot in good practice fine someone several hundred dollars for accidentally driving 20KM over the speed limit and several thousand dollars for someone else who does so deliberately.

While I agree the developer acted unethically, I draw the line at demanding extraordinary punishment. Justice must be blind and administered equally to all. The true culprits are the government wonks who put in place insufficient penalties to deter the developer.

[Shwa]

You're a Liberal so I'll try and type slower with smaller words so you can hopefully manage to understand.

In Canada we have many laws, some are perceived as good and others are not but all are ostensibly designed to steer behaviour within a boundary most accepted by society. Within those laws there are provisions for penalties should someone choose to violate their spirit or intent whether that is deliberate or accidental. These penalties again range from nothing to a life time incarceration and any varying amounts of financial penalties.

In order to respect our own judiciary, we cannot arbitrarily assign wholly new penalties after the fact simply because you feel that is the right thing to do and it helps to assuage your anger. So in even simpler terms, you cannot in good practice fine someone several hundred dollars for accidentally driving 20KM over the speed limit and several thousand dollars for someone else who does so deliberately.

While I agree the developer acted unethically, I draw the line at demanding extraordinary punishment. Justice must be blind and administered equally to all. The true culprits are the government wonks who put in place insufficient penalties to deter the developer.

Right I get it. It's the government's fault for not making legislation that treats everybody equally because that will make otherwise ethical people act unethically.

Damn you Charter of Rights and Freedoms, damn you to hell.

Gotchya.

So... start any militias lately?

[grainfedprairieboy]

Right I get it. It's the government's fault for not making legislation that treats everybody equally because that will make otherwise ethical people act unethically.

You can always tell a Liberal, ya just can't ever tell him much.

The point here is: if the area in question is as important as you assert, then it's disturbance and subsequent penalty should reflect the seriousness of the crime. These penalties are established by bureaucrats. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Are you just especially dense?

Damn you Charter of Rights and Freedoms, damn you to hell.

Agreed.

So... start any militias lately?

As a good ole boy it would be irresponsible of me not to be prepared for whichever revolution comes. I'll leave the culture of living in your parents basement well into adulthood, playing video games and jacking yourself to internet porn for you folks out East.

Edited October 13, 2010 by grainfedprairieboy

[Michael Hardner]

[quote name='grainfedprairieboy' date='13 October 2010 - 06:23 PM' timestamp='1287008607'

As a good ole boy it would be irresponsible of me not to be prepared for whichever revolution comes. I'll leave the culture of living in your parents basement well into adulthood, playing video games and jacking yourself to internet porn for you folks out East.

I had no idea that these were Eastern things, but it kind of figures. The first one makes sense - what with the lack of space and high rent, and the other two follow from the first.

It's sad. We need Alberta to pay more money to subsidize these things for the basement dwellers of Eastern Canada.

[Shwa]

You can always tell a Liberal, ya just can't ever tell him much.

Conversely, you can always tell an good old reformatory boy by yesterday's drool stains on their shirt.

The point here is: if the area in question is as important as you assert, then it's disturbance and subsequent penalty should reflect the seriousness of the crime. These penalties are established by bureaucrats. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Are you just especially dense?

Riiiight. It is the government's fault for not having fines high enough to deter such action and force people to comply with the law. Or did you miss that in the OP?

As a good ole boy it would be irresponsible of me not to be prepared for whichever revolution comes. I'll leave the culture of living in your parents basement well into adulthood, playing video games and jacking yourself to internet porn for you folks out East.

Said like a true cowpoke.

[bloodyminded]

As a good ole boy it would be irresponsible of me not to be prepared for whichever revolution comes. I'll leave the culture of living in your parents basement well into adulthood, playing video games and jacking yourself to internet porn for you folks out East.

Sasha Grey, pornstar:

Though more women, and generally with liberal sensibilities, have risen to positions of prominence, the industry is still run mostly by wealthy, hardcore Republican men who are conservative in every way aside from sexual issues. It stands to reason: to succeed in a business as big and lucrative as this one, a certain amount of hypocrisy is the best ally.

Edited October 14, 2010 by bloodyminded

[grainfedprairieboy]

Conversely, you can always tell an good old reformatory boy by yesterday's drool stains on their shirt.

You're cute when you attempt to be both witty and polite.

Riiiight. It is the government's fault for not having fines high enough to deter such action and force people to comply with the law. Or did you miss that in the OP?

What you missed genius, is that my sole objection is to your statement which I highlighted in post #26 I believe it was. You're so focused on trying to be an indignant liberal you're oblivious to the substance of what you are even debating.

I'm just new here but I'll bet dollars to donuts this is your normal method of operandi when it comes to political discourse.

Said like a true cowpoke.

A true cowpoke would've said: 'You'd think there was a moraine tree shortage the way this makes some of you Eastern bastards hotter then Svend Robinson's ass in a pepper batch.

[Shwa]

You're cute when you attempt to be both witty and polite.

Well lookie thar, more of yasterday's drool on yer shirt there cowpoke.

What you missed genius, is that my sole objection is to your statement which I highlighted in post #26 I believe it was. You're so focused on trying to be an indignant liberal you're oblivious to the substance of what you are even debating.

Changing tunes are ya now? See the drool comment above.

I'm just new here but I'll bet dollars to donuts this is your normal method of operandi when it comes to political discourse.

Oh gosh no, I usually don't give your type of dimwittery much time, but seeing your new here, I figured I'd be nice about it this once.

A true cowpoke would've said: 'You'd think there was a moraine tree shortage the way this makes some of you Eastern bastards hotter then Svend Robinson's ass in a pepper batch.

Knowing what a true cowpoke would say is a natural ability of yours of course seeing how you easily bring your preoccupation with Svend Robinson's ass into the discussion. Still hiding out in your closet er... 'militia' are you?

[grainfedprairieboy]

Well lookie thar, more of yasterday's drool on yer shirt there cowpoke.

Don't quit your pogey or whatever it is you do for a living.

Changing tunes are ya now? See the drool comment above.

Incapable of the simplest of research are we? I anticipated that before I even knew you and highlighted the sentence in advance and gave you the number.

I admit though, you're denser then I originally gave you credit for being.

h gosh no, I usually don't give your type of dimwittery much time, but seeing your new here, I figured I'd be nice about it this once.

Why that's mighty sporting of you. As they say, it's thought and not the gift that counts.

Knowing what a true cowpoke would say is a natural ability of yours of course seeing how you easily bring your preoccupation with Svend Robinson's ass into the discussion. Still hiding out in your closet er... 'militia' are you?

Just trying to use parables you can relate to. And as for the Militia, by golly Canada invented the concept of the citizen soldier more then 400 years ago and we have a proud history of such regardless of what some new age eastern apologist thinks.

So I'd rather eat shit with the Airborne then dine with a Liberal any day.

Edited October 14, 2010 by grainfedprairieboy

[Shwa]

Don't quit your pogey or whatever it is you do for a living.

Figures the first thing you would refer to is pogey seeing how cow-pokin' is a seasonal occupation. Or are you one of those "dude" rancher types?

Incapable of the simplest of research are we? I anticipated that before I even knew you and highlighted the sentence in advance and gave you the number.

Still dealing with yesterday's drool I see. Or, since you appear to have a fixation for men's asses, maybe it isn't a drool stain afterall.

I admit though, you're denser then I originally gave you credit for being.

An Albertan with credit? Yeah, that is about all there is to give out there isn't that right?

Why that's mighty sporting of you. As they say, it's thought and not the gift that counts.

Good thing for you eh?

Just trying to use parables you can relate to. And as for the Militia, by golly Canada invented the concept of the citizen soldier more then 400 years ago and we have a proud history of such regardless of what some new age eastern apologist thinks.

Aw, a sentimental cowpoke by golly, trying to tug on those patriotic heartstrings with a military heritage moment. Now you got something to share at your hillbilly boys club show and tell. Don't forget to bring your GI Joe for dramatic effect!

So I'd rather eat shit with the Airborne then dine with a Liberal any day.

Well that would explain your breath problem, but, as they say, you are what you eat. I am betting you eat it right from the source too. It would also explain why you are dick.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Shwa

[Michael Hardner]

redacted

Edited October 14, 2010 by Michael Hardner

[grainfedprairieboy]

Figures the first thing you would refer to is pogey seeing how cow-pokin' is a seasonal occupation. Or are you one of those "dude" rancher types?

Prayer: And Lordy we all know if it ain't Alberta it ain't beef and I'll kill any corn fed son of a bitch who says otherwise.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-339085478429445601#

I actually raise bugs on my ranch. If it ain't Alberta it ain't honey and goddamn the corn holed eastern bastard who might say otherwise. I also have a business that employees 18 layabout immigrants from east of the 100th meridian and am still a reservist (though I may pull pole this year).

Still dealing with yesterday's drool I see. Or, since you appear to have a fixation for men's asses, maybe it isn't a drool stain afterall.

An Albertan with credit? Yeah, that is about all there is to give out there isn't that right?

Good thing for you eh?

Aw, a sentimental cowpoke by golly, trying to tug on those patriotic heartstrings with a military heritage moment. Now you got something to share at your hillbilly boys club show and tell. Don't forget to bring your GI Joe for dramatic effect!

Well that would explain your breath problem, but, as they say, you are what you eat. I am betting you eat it right from the source too. It would also explain why you are dick.

Christ your insults are lame and unimaginative. This isn't your marriage.....try putting a little effort into it.

[Shwa]

Christ your insults are lame and unimaginative. This isn't your marriage.....try putting a little effort into it.

Are you kidding me? I was thinking the same thing of you... yesterday. I was wondering if someone had just showed you how to this brand new fangled internet thingy in the library with the rest of your therapy group from skid row.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Shwa

[grainfedprairieboy]

Are you kidding me? I was thinking the same thing of you... yesterday. I was wondering if someone had just showed you how to this brand new fangled internet thingy in the library with the rest of your therapy group from skid row.

Oooh.....the classic 'I know you are but what am I?" retort followed by another lame quip.

Seriously lady, I'd appreciate it if you put some effort into this instead of simply proving that swimming in the river in my community has had no ill side effects on me.

[charter.rights]

Figures the first thing you would refer to is pogey seeing how cow-pokin' is a seasonal occupation. Or are you one of those "dude" rancher types?

Given that he has a fixation on Svend Robinson's ass, I would say that makes him a Broke Back Mountain man...or woman depending on whether or not he is the husband or the wife.

Edited October 15, 2010 by charter.rights

[grainfedprairieboy]

Given that he has a fixation on Svend Robinson's ass, I would say that makes him a Broke Back Mountain man...or woman depending on whether or not he is the husband or the wife.

I am confident that in your mind my singular mention equates to a complete "fixation". Conversely, I am equally confident that your three references to that single comment plus your escalating references to homosexuality in your mind is completely unintentional.

When Will Forbes wrote: the idea that to be alive is to be constantly beleaguered by annoying idiots, poorly designed products and the unapologetic ferocity of fate. Competence and intelligence are not rewarded in life but punished." He obviously had you in mind while he drove a Chevette listening on the radio that the Liberals formed a majority government with less then 40% of the popular vote.

[political sun]

to add a slightly similar tidbit to the main topic,

think i recall a few years back in Italy that a developer wanted to build on a piece of land that was protected by the Italian government for environmental or endangered species reasons. The news segment said that the developer went in and set fire to all the land when nobody was looking, if i recall it ended up being quite a large fire too.

.