G8

[nicky10013]

Well, think that if you wish. Their intentions and methods were all planned out, well in advance.

Yeah, but like I said, the goal was to get to the fence. The goal wouldn't have changed if it was moved to the ex.

[g_bambino]

Yeah, but like I said, the goal was to get to the fence. The goal wouldn't have changed if it was moved to the ex.

I never said it would've. I said smashing up downtown wouldn't have dropped off the agenda, either.

[nicky10013]

I never said it would've. I said smashing up downtown wouldn't have dropped off the agenda, either.

Well, if their main goal was the fence, and the fence is around the ex, then they can't be downtown to cause damage, can they? I don't disagree that they'd try to break stuff around the ex, but like I said, downtown has much more business and tourism potential. I'd also like to point out, that even though they were doing their job, the reason why they were running through downtown breaking stuff was because the cops were funneling them to certain points where they could've hoped to arrest some of them. Like I said, it's about the fence and it always has been at these types of things. I still remember seeing dumpsters flying down towards the fence in Pittsburgh.

Edited June 27, 2010 by nicky10013

[Wild Bill]

Well, if their main goal was the fence, and the fence is around the ex, then they can't be downtown to cause damage, can they? I don't disagree that they'd try to break stuff around the ex, but like I said, downtown has much more business and tourism potential. I'd also like to point out, that even though they were doing their job, the reason why they were running through downtown breaking stuff was because the cops were funneling them to certain points where they could've hoped to arrest some of them. Like I said, it's about the fence and it always has been at these types of things. I still remember seeing dumpsters flying down towards the fence in Pittsburgh.

Actually, I thought their goal was just to steal some guitars from Steve's Music!

Seriously, I agree that many of the protesters really haven't got a clue on how to actually get something changed. I think many are really just drama queens, looking for a parade to get out in front of, so they can feel they've done something. If they torch a cop car they think that makes them look even more dedicated!

To me, they just look like dillholes! I respect actual positive efforts and results. Any dimwit with hair in his ears can get ugly in a mob scene.

[Open Government]

Unfortunately, all the mainstream media seemed interested in covering this weekend was the melee in downtown Toronto. CBC was showing the same old tired video loop of someone climbing a tree with a video camera, someone smashing and kicking a store window and flames leaping from a police car after a demonstrator does a dance on the hood. We heard nothing about what (if anything) had been accomplished at the G8 meeting that was already over and the legitimate demonstrators got an absolute minimum of coverage.

The coverage this weekend says a lot about Canada's media establishment and their reportage.

http://viableopposition.blogspot.com/

[g_bambino]

Well, if their main goal was the fence, and the fence is around the ex, then they can't be downtown to cause damage, can they?

Yea, they could; there's more than one of them. Besides, you still never addressed the fact that all the leaders would be staying in hotels right in the downtown core, behind a fence of their own. The anarchists might be a little more spread out, but the damage would still have been done.

[nicky10013]

Yea, they could; there's more than one of them. Besides, you still never addressed the fact that all the leaders would be staying in hotels right in the downtown core, behind a fence of their own. The anarchists might be a little more spread out, but the damage would still have been done.

Ummm...not all the hotels are behind the fence. The Saudis are staying in Yorkville and they managed fine. Other delegations have rented people's condos for upwards of $8000 dollars for the weekend. There frankly wouldn't have to be a fence for hotels.

Edited June 27, 2010 by nicky10013

[g_bambino]

There frankly wouldn't have to be a fence for hotels.

Also doubtful. And irrelevant, anyway.

[nicky10013]

Also doubtful. And irrelevant, anyway.

Uhhh, no, not doubtful, I don't even think any hotels are protected by fences, just the convention centre, at least that's what I've seen from TV. How could you put up a fence for hotels anyways? It's not like they're all on one block. Furthermore, how is it irrelevant. If it is irrelevant then your entire argument becomes irrelevant as you state, "oh, well, there would be a fence for hotels so therefore the anarchists would attack that and downtown would be trashed anyways."

Edit: the Westin Harbour Castle has a fence however it's located directly behind the convention centre.

Edited June 27, 2010 by nicky10013

[capricorn]

Unfortunately, all the mainstream media seemed interested in covering this weekend was the melee in downtown Toronto.

I found that too. Some of the best coverage of the G8/G20 was on the Business News Network (BNN). Tons of reports on their website.

http://www.bnn.ca/

[capricorn]

I don't even think any hotels are protected by fences, just the convention centre, at least that's what I've seen from TV.

Security is not measured strictly by the presence or absence of fences. I can imagine the level of security in the hotels housing the leaders and their delegations.

[nicky10013]

Security is not measured strictly by the presence or absence of fences. I can imagine the level of security in the hotels housing the leaders and their delegations.

I couldn't agree more. However, my point was that the groups of these anarchists was to breach the fence to the convention centre and having it moved to the ex would mitigate the risk. All of a sudden it became about fences surrounding hotels. I was merely addressing that.

[Topaz]

Seeing all this reminds me of when Harper was first running for PMO. Someone in the press printed that under Harper, Canadians would see guns in the street. Well, we did see guns in the street, and they police shot the rubber bullets and the tear gas. Haven't seen anything like this since the FLQ.

[DFCaper]

What has Harper got to do with the lady in Windsor? The OPP officer reports to Dalton McGuinty. The wind turbines are a Dalton issue, not a Harper one.

Lord knows Harper has his faults but if you're going to blame someone you should really get it right! Why blame Harper for something Dalton did? Why should Dalton get a free pass?

The first I hear of police going to innocent peoples houses to harass them for not agreeing with the government is the G8 Harper harassment police.

Dalton, being what I consider the worst provincial politician ever, never had an original thought in his life. I believe he is just following suit. Harper made such behavior the norm in this country. And you know what happens when the president is set.

This is truly proof that libertarians and conservatives have very little in common.

At least 500 MILLION was wasted as the windows got broken anyway, and there was too little coverage of hippies having there heads bashed in....

[capricorn]

All of a sudden it became about fences surrounding hotels. I was merely addressing that.

O.K.

[Moonlight Graham]

And you are right , it gets headlines, but for what? Does it draw attention to the things that people are actually protesting about regarding these summits? Or is it there to simply cause trouble to make headlines. It seems self defeating.

Well, i've heard a heck of a lot more talk in the media lately using words like "anarchists", "anti-globalization", and "anti-capitalists" than words like "poverty" and "the environment". Seems to me the former groups got their messages out better. People still talk about the 1999 Seattle protests by "anti-globalization" folks for what i think was a WTO meeting. So unfortunately, i still believe violence and destruction are easier to get one's message across in the media. Whether media watchers actually are influenced by such destructive messages, i don't know. But can't deny they become more aware of the message.

For terrorist groups, it seems violence is effective in converting people to their cause.

But this is all why Gandhi was so awesome.

[capricorn]

So unfortunately, i still believe violence and destruction are easier to get one's message across in the media. Whether media watchers actually are influenced by such destructive messages, i don't know.

You know who else is influenced by destructive acts and messages? A good number of ordinary and usually peaceful onlookers. It was amazing and somewhat disconcerting to watch them applaud and cheer as cop cars were torched and sporadic explosions erupted from the flames. A throng of people in certain circumstances can turn pretty ugly very quickly.

[Moonlight Graham]

You know who else is influenced by destructive acts and messages? A good number of ordinary and usually peaceful onlookers. It was amazing and somewhat disconcerting to watch them applaud and cheer as cop cars were torched and sporadic explosions erupted from the flames. A throng of people in certain circumstances can turn pretty ugly very quickly.

Yup, the 'ol "mob mentality". The ones that clap from the distance are the true cowards, since they want to cause some havoc but haven't the balls to do it themselves.

[msdogfood]

I like to know where the protesters in black came from? Are they Canadians or are they from other countries? Harper made a BIG mistake hostessing this in To. and then having it downtown, what was he thinking or was he? The mayor of To. doesn't look he very happy with Harper or McGuinty. The BBP, better know as bad black protestors, have burned 3 cop cars and those aren't cheap.

Well The TOPD & The PMO now Have a very big PR problems on there hands now!!

The Media is out for blood!