Tories

[Wild Bill]

It's all very well for us political junkies to be so appalled at the Tories but I wonder if anyone has seen any polls since the committee wars started to happen?

We can make all the moral judgements we want but in the final analysis the REAL question of value would be "How low can the Tories go IN THE POLLS?"!

[Shakeyhands]

It's quite the display really. This government will do just about anything to disrupt and turn the committees in to circuses. I feel for us, we put our trust in to these people to ensure that accountability is there, and the CPC is doing everything it can to obfuscate the public.

Why?

[margrace]

According to the actions of the Tories in the committee work, they really don't believe in free speech. Lets look back at some recent world history. HOw many countries in the world have had, over the last century, working democracys? Germany started out early in the century with one I believe. Italy was pretty close weren't they. And recently the US became pretty close to losing theirs.

We are only a thread away from losing our free speech. Stephen Harper does not believe in the common man, like the Randites, he has little use for mankind. The market place should control everything is their belief. If anyone trusts big business then they are pretty simple.

We could lose our hard won freedoms tomorrow. All we need is to keep turning a blind eye and valuing our mighty dollar over our freedoms.

[Moonbox]

We could lose our hard won freedoms tomorrow. All we need is to keep turning a blind eye and valuing our mighty dollar over our freedoms.

This is adolescent crazy talk. Take your tinfoil hat off, stop exaggerating and come back to reality.

Edited June 7, 2010 by Moonbox

[Molly]

Aye. I'm not fond of quite where that post strayed and how it was phrased, but I certainly share the sentiment.

What we are experiencing, and have been, is a major shift in what constitutes acceptable (normal) conduct. Those lines, once stretched so far, won't snap back to something we can be proud of. Baird's antidemocratic antics have become, and will remain, the new normal.

We can look forward to governments that will lie outright, ignore the will of parliament and even their own rules, misrepresent history, events, and their own intent, treat voters as though they are completely stupid, brazen their way through when caught dead-to-rights, obstruct, bully, shout down... because the precedent has been set.

[margrace]

This is adolescent crazy talk. Take your tinfoil hat off, stop exaggerating and come back to reality.

What people such as this need to do is talk to Germans who thought Hitler was their saviour. Then they paid a horrendous price for believing him didn't they? Who cares about the loss of a few freedoms if I can better my situation, who cares about what happens to other people? A german friend can tell you about roaming the streets of Berlin in 1945 literally starving. Just ask the Dutch people, who had to eat their tulip bulbs, and where Canadian soldies found bodies in the streets of people who had starved to death. Perhaps you should take off you tin Hat and do a little research.

[Wild Bill]

What we are experiencing, and have been, is a major shift in what constitutes acceptable (normal) conduct. Those lines, once stretched so far, won't snap back to something we can be proud of. Baird's antidemocratic antics have become, and will remain, the new normal.

We can look forward to governments that will lie outright, ignore the will of parliament and even their own rules, misrepresent history, events, and their own intent, treat voters as though they are completely stupid, brazen their way through when caught dead-to-rights, obstruct, bully, shout down... because the precedent has been set.

Sounds like the way some of the threads have been going on this board, these past few months!

It's like we're slowly being invaded by posters from "rubble.com". Rude, lewd and crude!

Perhaps Baird is a secret "Rubble.com" poster! I wonder what he uses for an alias...

[margrace]

Sounds like the way some of the threads have been going on this board, these past few months!

It's like we're slowly being invaded by posters from "rubble.com". Rude, lewd and crude!

Perhaps Baird is a secret "Rubble.com" poster! I wonder what he uses for an alias...

Well the conservative party is loading these forums with disruptive and party line people. They are on all forums and some good party people such as the ones who own CARP have even shut down political forums.

[ToadBrother]

And what do you have against free speech. I think she acted like a child.

Do that in front of a judge and you'll find out really quick that free speech isn't equal in all places.

Since Harper has basically decreed that staffers and other ministerial staff will not appear before Parliamentary committees, but rather Ministers will in their stead, a Minister cannot have it both ways. If he appears on behalf of one of his staff, he cannot enjoy the privileges that he would as an MP.

In other words, you can't have your cake and eat it too. He was off-base, rude, arrogant, and most importantly, the victim of his own Prime Minister's desire to avoid having to answer to the real boss of government; Parliament.

[Jack Weber]

Do that in front of a judge and you'll find out really quick that free speech isn't equal in all places.

Since Harper has basically decreed that staffers and other ministerial staff will not appear before Parliamentary committees, but rather Ministers will in their stead, a Minister cannot have it both ways. If he appears on behalf of one of his staff, he cannot enjoy the privileges that he would as an MP.

In other words, you can't have your cake and eat it too. He was off-base, rude, arrogant, and most importantly, the victim of his own Prime Minister's desire to avoid having to answer to the real boss of government; Parliament.

Correct!!!!!

[Topaz]

When is Harper and his Tories, going to follow the rules they preach so much about? Soudas, he won`t go the the Ethnics Committee, even if he is served with the summons, the Jaffers, refuse to attend, and I think anyone who doesn`t obey should be charge with contempt and heavy fine or jail time! First the committee asked for the Ministers and they refused , so then the committee called the staffers and then the Minister did a reversal and wanted to appear. Its not normal for the PM to appear but his this case, he should be sworn in and answer the questions..

[Shakeyhands]

Perhaps Baird is a secret "Rubble.com" poster! I wonder what he uses for an alias...

Jackass345 perhaps?

[margrace]

Two things against Ignatief, he is a professor much like his predicesor, and he knows that if he calls an election it would cost a lot and we probably would end up with the same type of gov't. Harper is banking on the inability of Canadians in realizing that he is getting his own agenda in by bits and pieces. As long as we sit back and let this happen we will get the gov't we deserve.

When, as the Germans learned, it is too late we will have a dictatorship. Things will be changed little by little and the freedoms and social programs that Canadian think are their right will be gone.

In talking to people around here the inability to realize what is going on is frightening.

[Wild Bill]

Well the conservative party is loading these forums with disruptive and party line people. They are on all forums and some good party people such as the ones who own CARP have even shut down political forums.

My personal observations show that with one or two exception it is the lefties who are the rudest and totally lack manners.

I enjoy someone having a different opinion but I have no time for a boor.

[Yesterday]

Two things against Ignatief, he is a professor much like his predicesor, and he knows that if he calls an election it would cost a lot and we probably would end up with the same type of gov't. Harper is banking on the inability of Canadians in realizing that he is getting his own agenda in by bits and pieces. As long as we sit back and let this happen we will get the gov't we deserve.

When, as the Germans learned, it is too late we will have a dictatorship. Things will be changed little by little and the freedoms and social programs that Canadian think are their right will be gone.

In talking to people around here the inability to realize what is going on is frightening.

I MOST WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You know, the best medicine for fear is knowledge yet somehow though in this instance the more I learn the stronger my fear gets. Perhaps because understanding it alone is not the same as already figuring out what to do about it. I wonder if the forums that are getting shut down go in depth about alternatives and counter measures.

[ToadBrother]

Well the conservative party is loading these forums with disruptive and party line people. They are on all forums and some good party people such as the ones who own CARP have even shut down political forums.

I first saw in 2008 during the coalition crisis. A whole lot of people on web boards I was contributing to suddenly appeared, and it was very clear they were simply tossing out pre-scripted talking points. It was kind of funny, because on one forum, a few days after the debate had quieted down, some idiot johnny-come-lately suddenly appeared and started spewing almost identical talking points.

It's called astroturfing. It was first really pioneered by lobbyists down in the States to give the appearance of widespread popular opinion for what they were trying to push on lawmakers.

[ToadBrother]

My personal observations show that with one or two exception it is the lefties who are the rudest and totally lack manners.

I enjoy someone having a different opinion but I have no time for a boor.

My personal observation that its political ideologues and fetishists, left or right, that are the problem. You're very statement, while not perhaps as inflammatory as some, demonstrates that very point.

[Yesterday]

I first saw in 2008 during the coalition crisis. A whole lot of people on web boards I was contributing to suddenly appeared, and it was very clear they were simply tossing out pre-scripted talking points. It was kind of funny, because on one forum, a few days after the debate had quieted down, some idiot johnny-come-lately suddenly appeared and started spewing almost identical talking points.

It's called astroturfing. It was first really pioneered by lobbyists down in the States to give the appearance of widespread popular opinion for what they were trying to push on lawmakers.

Sort of like stock manipulators on stock forums, bashers and the rest. This is my first foray into political forums, if I bring up redundancies please forgive me. I do make use of the forum search but it will take time to thoroughly navigate all the subjects on this forum for such. I must say, this is a most interesting place!

[Wild Bill]

My personal observation that its political ideologues and fetishists, left or right, that are the problem. You're very statement, while not perhaps as inflammatory as some, demonstrates that very point.

Actually TB, some of the most partisan people on this board are also the most polite! However, it seems to me that whenever we do get someone who has the manners of a pig he or she tends to be leftwing. There are some exceptions, as I had said. Still, the numbers seem to favour the left.

Perhaps this is because the left always appeals most strongly to the younger set, who have great wit but lack life experience and wisdom. Adolescents tend to rant and bray, as if the intensity of their passion somehow has a correlation with the validity of their arguement.

Whatever, JMHO! I'm just saying that we seem to have some new posters that frankly, strike me as rude.

[ToadBrother]

Actually TB, some of the most partisan people on this board are also the most polite! However, it seems to me that whenever we do get someone who has the manners of a pig he or she tends to be leftwing. There are some exceptions, as I had said. Still, the numbers seem to favour the left.

Do you actually have any numbers? It strikes me as the opposite. The left-wingers tend to be pretty delusional, but usually not too rude. The right-wing nutjobs tend to be exceedingly repetitive and rude. But I suspect both of us are being highly subjective.

Perhaps this is because the left always appeals most strongly to the younger set, who have great wit but lack life experience and wisdom. Adolescents tend to rant and bray, as if the intensity of their passion somehow has a correlation with the validity of their arguement.

Whatever, JMHO! I'm just saying that we seem to have some new posters that frankly, strike me as rude.

And again you demonstrate that being insulting (not to mention highly fallacious in argument) don't need rudeness.

Come on, you know what you wrote is ridiculous. Whether you choose to write it Mr. Canada style or Wild Bill style, at the end of the day, you think people on the left are morons.

I'm much less biased, I think die-hard politicos of either stripe are incredibly foolish, incapable of measuring arguments on their own merits, far too easily swayed by those they view as their leaders and incredibly psychologically inflexible.

That's why I'm so much better than the lot of you! This is an example of a non-aligned guy being insulting

[Yesterday]

I find this whole topic fascinating. This one single thing is exposing the flaws within our system that I have never dreamed being seen and understood by the public at large.

I so totally agree. Not just fascinated but thrilled. Got'a LOVE transparency!!!!! Like toddlers learning to speak who never shut up, let us never shut up!