StatsCan eyes francophone conspiracy on bilingualism questionnaire

[Leafless]

Thousands of francophones across Canada are believed to have lied about their ability to speak English in a seemingly co-ordinated attempt to manipulate the 2006 Census in order to guarantee federal funding of programs for francophones.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/StatsCan+eyes+francophone+conspiracy/3091164/story.html

I always thought Trudeau's 'just society' relating to Francophones and Quebec was about respect.

But then again how can you respect a fascist state like Quebec and this group of cheating, lying Francophones who are trying to manipulate the census for their own benefit in order to guarantee federal funding of programs for Francophones.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Leafless

[kimmy]

Not very surprising. Canada's francophones have to be the most privileged "oppressed minority" in the history of the world, and pretending that they're hard-done-by is crucial to the whole deal.

-k

[CANADIEN]

The one thing that is certainly not surprising at all is that some people would actually believe there was a big conspiracy in French-speaking communities to lie about how many people among them are able to speak English as well as French.

"it was done for the money" goes the claim. Thge only problem with this is that the provision of services or funding to minority-language organization is based on the mother-tongue spoken

"it's because they want to be viewed as being hard-done-by"... Funny, having lesws people who are also able to speak English would contradict the image, not enhence it.

Now, to some facts... Some moron send an anonymous message full of disinformation ("lie, we'll get more money") to a few thousand e-mail addresses shortly before the census. And said e-mail was most likely just ignored by about everybody who received it. Not what i call a "big consporacy to lie".

Equally interesting is the fact that StatsCan denies using the words "lie" or "conspiracy" when talking to the Ottawa Citizen. In fac, all that they say is hat an anonymous e-mail may have influenced some responses, but that they cannot say why the results are SLIGHTLY different from the past two censuses

Now, excuse me while I yawn at the whole thing.

[kimmy]

The one thing that is certainly not surprising at all is that some people would actually believe there was a big conspiracy in French-speaking communities to lie about how many people among them are able to speak English as well as French.

It appears to be a historical fact that such a conspiracy occurred. The only question is how successful it was.

"it was done for the money" goes the claim. Thge only problem with this is that the provision of services or funding to minority-language organization is based on the mother-tongue spoken

Whether it would have achieved the results intended does not in the least disprove that it was attempted.

Also, the article disputes your claim:

The unreliability of data concerning bilingual francophones in Ontario comes on the heels of a controversial decision last year by Madeleine Meilleur, Ontario's minister responsible for francophone affairs, to change the provincial definition. Previously, a francophone was someone whose mother tongue was French. Now, it can be anyone whose mother tongue is neither English nor French, but who at least understands French. Statistics Canada says this will artificially increase the number of French speakers in the province, likely by about 50,000, and include some people who may not be able to speak French.

"it's because they want to be viewed as being hard-done-by"... Funny, having lesws people who are also able to speak English would contradict the image, not enhence it.

The rationale for pretending to not speak english was to dupe the government into believing that thousands of francophones outside Quebec would face hardship if funding was reduced for french language services outside Quebec. As the article says of the email that was circulated: "It said doing so would ensure the federal government would not cut services to francophones."

Now, to some facts... Some moron send an anonymous message full of disinformation ("lie, we'll get more money") to a few thousand e-mail addresses shortly before the census. And said e-mail was most likely just ignored by about everybody who received it. Not what i call a "big consporacy to lie".

That the email may have contained disinformation isn't relevant. The number of people who received the email is pure supposition by you, as is whether people read it or ignored it.

Equally interesting is the fact that StatsCan denies using the words "lie" or "conspiracy" when talking to the Ottawa Citizen.

Sure. All they say is that there was a coordinated attempt to provide inaccurate information.

In fac, all that they say is hat an anonymous e-mail may have influenced some responses, but that they cannot say why the results are SLIGHTLY different from the past two censuses

Actually they're very specific about why they believe the results are different:

Jean Pierre Corbeil, a chief specialist in the language statistics section, said they have studied the trend reversal and the e-mail appears to be the only factor that may have produced this aberration.

"How can you explain people living in a minority situation, even in really strong minority situations, that they would become less bilingual? This is almost impossible," said Corbeil.

-k

[CANADIEN]

It appears to be a historical fact that such a conspiracy occurred.

Not according to statsCan, whose representatives have denied that they used words such as conspiracy, or lie when approached by the Ottawa Citizen,

http://www.radio-canada.ca/regions/atlantique/2010/05/31/005-article-recensement.shtml

When StatsCan says that they did not use the words the Ottawa Citizen, well-known for its francophobic stance, attribute them. I'll trust StatsCan. Especially when their Website notice does not include the words conspiracy, and lie.

As I said before, a moron writing an e-mail and some people actually acting on it does not make a conspiracy. Barely a reason for a yawn.

[CANADIEN]

The unreliability of data concerning bilingual francophones in Ontario comes on the heels of a controversial decision last year by Madeleine Meilleur, Ontario's minister responsible for francophone affairs, to change the provincial definition. Previously, a francophone was someone whose mother tongue was French. Now, it can be anyone whose mother tongue is neither English nor French, but who at least understands French. Statistics Canada says this will artificially increase the number of French speakers in the province, likely by about 50,000, and include some people who may not be able to speak French.

StatsCan says that there was a conspiracy - or mmore exactly the Ottawa Citizen claims that StatsCan says there was a conspiracy, because StatsCan's spokepersons says that they never used that word. And the Ontario Government adopts a new definition of Francophones*. so, there WAS a conspiracy and at least part of the Ontario government was in it, right?

Not only it is laughable, but the Citizen did not even bother to get its facts straight.

From the Ontario Office of Francophone Affairs.

{The new definition will include] people whose mother tongue is not French, who have some knowledge of French and who speak it at home.

However, it excludes people who speak French when they have identified English as their mother tongue.

Different from "it can be anyone whose mother tongue is neither English nor French, but who at least understands French" and "it will include some people who may not be able to speak French."

As for the claim that StasCan opposes the new definition, let's compare that with:

At the technical level, the OFA has benefited from the support of specialists from Statistics Canada

http://www.ofa.gov.on.ca/en/news-090604-faq.html

I would be tempted to use the word conspiracy here, but the innacuracies peddled (either on purpose or not) by the Citizen does not amount to that. Barely bad journalism, possibly fuelled by well-kown francophobia.

Back to yawning.

*I do not agree with the new definition, on tehnical grounds. That being said, knowing the number of people whose mother tongue is neither English or French but speaks French (if outside Quebec) or English (in Quebec) at home is important when determining when and how services in the minority language are to be delivered.

Edited June 3, 2010 by CANADIEN

[kimmy]

Not according to statsCan, whose representatives have denied that they used words such as conspiracy, or lie when approached by the Ottawa Citizen,

http://www.radio-canada.ca/regions/atlantique/2010/05/31/005-article-recensement.shtml

When StatsCan says that they did not use the words the Ottawa Citizen, well-known for its francophobic stance, attribute them. I'll trust StatsCan. Especially when their Website notice does not include the words conspiracy, and lie.

As I said before, a moron writing an e-mail and some people actually acting on it does not make a conspiracy. Barely a reason for a yawn.

StatsCan is clearly claiming that an organized effort to provide misleading answers to the census resulted in an inaccurate result. Whether they use the word "conspiracy" to describe this is completely irrelevant.

And the specifics of Ontario's legal definition of a francophone are completely irrelevant as well. Francophones thought they could protect french-language services by lying on their census forms. Whether they were right or wrong doesn't matter in the least.

-k

[CANADIEN]

StatsCan is clearly claiming that an organized effort to provide misleading answers to the census resulted in an inaccurate result. Whether they use the word "conspiracy" to describe this is completely irrelevant.

Claim to show me where and how they are clearly making that claim, in the following?

Un article publié lundi par le Ottawa Citizen au sujet du nombre de francophones au Canada qui se sont dits bilingues lors du recensement de 2006 suscite de vives réactions.

Selon le journal, des francophones n'ont pas coché la case signifiant qu'ils sont bilingues dans le formulaire de recensement parce qu'ils voulaient assurer le maintien de programmes fédéraux pour les minorités francophones.

« On est surpris du ton de l'article qui parle de complot, d'efforts concertés », indique la présidente de la Fédération des communautés francophones et acadiennes, Marie France Kenny.

Selon le journal, les francophones auraient suivi une suggestion contenue dans un courriel anonyme, ce qui expliquerait la diminution du nombre de francophones bilingues observée lors du recensement.

Statistiques Canada nie qu'elle ait utilisé les mots « complot » et « mensonge » en parlant au Ottawa Citizen. « Statistiques Canada n'a pas utilisé ce langage-là », affirme la porte-parole Rose Marie Bender.

Quant à la diminution du taux de francophones bilingues, Statistiques Canada n'a pas d'explication. « On ne pouvait pas dire les raisons pour lesquelles il y a eu cette baisse-là, mais on a quand même informé les Canadiens qu'il y a eu possiblement une influence de ce courriel anonyme », ajoute Mme Bender.

Marie-France Kenny croit que cette histoire ressurgit aujourd'hui parce que le bilinguisme est le sujet de l'heure à Ottawa. « Il y a un grand débat sur le bilinguisme des juges à la Cour suprême », dit-elle.

Unless I am losing my French (LOL), the fartest the spokesperson for StsCan goes is talking a possible influence of an anonymous e-mail. Not the same as an organized effot.

And whether or not StatsCan uses the wor conspiracy is clearly not irrelevant when the Ottawa Citizens claims they did.

And the specifics of Ontario's legal definition of a francophone are completely irrelevant

Guess what, I knew that from the start. But hey, YOU brought that change in definition in the thread. Not me.

**************

The issue is not whether or not some idiot sent an e-mail suggesting that people lie on the census. It was done. It is not whether or not some people did lie on the census (a POSSIBILITY, according to StatsCan) = all kinds of people provide all kind of innacurate information for all kind of reasons. The issue is that some will resurect an old non-story (the warning by StatsCan about a POSSIBLE innacuracy dates from 2007, and did not raise any eyebrow that I can recall), put in the mouth of StatsCan's spokespersons words they did not use, say StatsCan is making claims it is not making. This playing loose with what other people are saying in what looks like an effort to stir the linguistic pot is the issue, not the alleged (and most likely non-existant) conspiracy.

Edited June 3, 2010 by CANADIEN

[Leafless]

StatsCan says that there was a conspiracy - or mmore exactly the Ottawa Citizen claims that StatsCan says there was a conspiracy, because StatsCan's spokepersons says that they never used that word. And the Ontario Government adopts a new definition of Francophones*. so, there WAS a conspiracy and at least part of the Ontario government was in it, right?

Whether StatsCan denies using the word conspiracy is irrelevant.

A plot to carry out an illegal act IS A CONSPRIACY. In this case the plot was carried out by an e-mail. The Ottawa Citizen was using correct terminology.

Not only it is laughable, but the Citizen did not even bother to get its facts straight.

From the Ontario Office of Francophone Affairs.

"The new definition will include people whose mother tongue is not French, who have some knowledge of French and who speak it at home."

However, it excludes people who speak French when they have identified English as their mother tongue."

Different from "it can be anyone whose mother tongue is neither English nor French, but who at least understands French" and "it will include some people who may not be able to speak French."

What the new definiton is referring to about are Allophones or foreign immigrants whose mother tongue is neither of the federal governments official languages, English or French, but is the mother tongue of some other foreign language.

In this case Madeline Meilleur, minister for francophone affairs is trying to capitilize on with her new definition, are those foreign immigrants whose spoken or understood languages includes the French language.

It seem the Ottawa Citizen was correct outlining Meilleur's new francophone definition.

This new definiton is not only stupid but is ludicrious as Ontario's major language is de facto English and not French which only represents 4.8% of Ontario's population.

Premier of Ontario is 'sleeping at the wheel to allow Meiller' to do this as it could be counter productive to Ontario's economy if a foreign immigrants are encouraged to communicate in French rather than English and could severley hamper foreign immigrants ability to obtain employment which is almost exclusively in the English language, especially in the Toronto area.

It also seems 'mother tounge' has no meaning when when minority francophones communicate in English in the public sphere and in the workplace and therefore for all practical purposes they have been assimilated.

I wish Madeline Meilleur minister of francophone affairs in Ontario and premier Dalton Mc.Guinty would understand what 'assimilate' means and admit that keeping the French language artifically alive serves no purpose and is a total waste of tax payers dollars.

[CANADIEN]

Whether StatsCan denies using the word conspiracy is irrelevant.

Except when the Ottawa Citizen is misleading people by leading them to believe StatsCan used that type of language.

What the new definiton is referring to about are Allophones or foreign immigrants whose mother tongue is neither of the federal governments official languages, English or French, but is the mother tongue of some other foreign language.

In this case Madeline Meilleur, minister for francophone affairs is trying to capitilize on with her new definition, are those foreign immigrants whose spoken or understood languages includes the French language.

It seem the Ottawa Citizen was correct outlining Meilleur's new francophone definition.

Except to those who get what they read, which as usual excludes you. The new definition is NOT what the Citizen allege it is.

This new definiton is not only stupid but is ludicrious as Ontario's major language is de facto English and not French which only represents 4.8% of Ontario's population.

The only thing here that is stupid and ludicrous is the contention that we don't need to define what a Francophone is on the ground that the majority of the poplation in Ontario is Anglophone. What's next, we do not need to define what an Anglophone is in Quebec?

It also seems 'mother tounge' has no meaning

except when you make a fool of yourself because some Canadians have a CANADIAN mother tongue different than yours and KNOW they do need to lose it to be Canadians.

(...)when when minority francophones communicate in English in the public sphere and in the workplace and therefore for all practical purposes they have been assimilated.

So assimilated significant numbers continue to exercise their RIGHT as CANADIAN to communicate with the government in their CANADIAN language and to send their kids to French language school. The one who needs to lear the definition of "assimilate" and understand it is YOU. Don't worry, like everything you talk about,most people do not expect that to happen anytime soon. Edited June 3, 2010 by CANADIEN

[kimmy]

Claim to show me where and how they are clearly making that claim, in the following?

Who cares if Stats Canada deny using the words "conspiracy" and "lie"?

What they're describing can reasonably be described as a conspiracy, and providing inaccurate information can certainly be described as lying.

Unless I am losing my French (LOL), the fartest the spokesperson for StsCan goes is talking a possible influence of an anonymous e-mail. Not the same as an organized effot.

An anonymous email that was widely circulated. If thousands of people receive something and forward it on to their friends, well, "organized" might not be the right word, but it's certainly a group effort.

And whether or not StatsCan uses the wor conspiracy is clearly not irrelevant when the Ottawa Citizens claims they did.

And it's a reasonable description of what Stats Canada says happened.

Guess what, I knew that from the start. But hey, YOU brought that change in definition in the thread. Not me.

You're the one who raised the subject, when you made the inaccurate claim that "the provision of services or funding to minority-language organization is based on the mother-tongue spoken."

Your claim was (first off) wrong, in light of Ontario's revised definition, and secondly, misses the objective of those who lied on their census:

"As a government, we need to know where these people live to better plan for the provision of French-language services, especially in the larger metropolitan areas that attract a significant number of newcomers."

-Madeleine Meilleur, Ontario Minister of Language Police

Or, to paraphrase: "if we can trick Stats Canada into thinking that there's a whole bunch of Francophones here in Stittsville, we can get a French post-master at the post office!"

-k

[CANADIEN]

Who cares if Stats Canada deny using the words "conspiracy" and "lie"?

Apparently, Stats Can itself. And people who do not appreciate the bad journalism and borderline lying job by the Ottawa citizen.

Interesting, by the way, how "StatsCan said it clearly! StatsCan said it clearly!" becomes "Who cares what StatsCan said". Interesting as in laughable that is.

To paraphrase what I said before, the real issue is not the fact that some people lied on the census form. It is not whether or not an e-mail being sent then redistributed constitutes a group effort, or a conspiracy, a plot or whatever. It is the fact that people are putting words in other people's mouth and misrepresenting facts, likely in order to further a francophobic agenda.

You're the one who raised the subject, when you made the inaccurate claim that "the provision of services or funding to minority-language organization is based on the mother-tongue spoken."

Your claim was (first off) wrong, in light of Ontario's revised definition, and secondly, misses the objective of those who lied on their census:

Indeed, the new definition of Francophone adopteD by the Ontario government in 2009 goes beyond mother-tongue, so I stand corrected. That being said,the point I was making was the fact that funding or provision of service is dependant on the number of Francophones (no matter how they are defined, I would add), rather that the number of people Francophones unable to speak English (the point some people were lying about) . Was not mentioning the new Ontario definition, was not not linking the new definition to the "Census-Gate" (nice ring to it, eh?), was not saying anything on whether or not it was linked.

(btw, neither the federal government nor any other provincial government has adopted the Ontario definition)

So, YOU are the one who first mentioned the new Ontario definition. And you are the one who insists on trying to establish a link between that new definition and the infamous e-mail.

Unfortunately (for you that is), the link does not exist, because of these FACTS:

- the new definition was adopted in 2009, THREE YEARS after the 2006 census

- most importantly, the new definitions includes people whose first language is neither English or french but use French at home. On the other hand, the infamous e-mail was NOT suggesting that people lie on whether or not they understand French, but on whether or not they can speak English as well as French.

The general census form (the abridged version we all get) asks people what is the language they learned first and they still speak at home; clearly, the e-mail was not suggesting that people whose first languageis French lie about it. On the longer form, people are also asked what official language(s) they can speak; THAT'S the question the e-mail suggested people answer to falsely.

To paraphrase, the e-mail was not saying "If your first language is Spanish or Mandarin and you don't understand a word of what I am wiritng because it's in French, please indicate on the census form that you use French at home" but "Even if you understand and speak English fluently, say you don't".

Or, to correct your paraphrase: "if we can trick Stats Canada into thinking that Francophones here here in Stittsville cannot understand a word of English, we can keep our French-speaking post-master at the post office!"

Edited June 4, 2010 by CANADIEN

[kimmy]

Apparently, Stats Can itself. And people who do not appreciate the bad journalism and borderline lying job by the Ottawa citizen.

Interesting, by the way, how "StatsCan said it clearly! StatsCan said it clearly!" becomes "Who cares what StatsCan said". Interesting as in laughable that is.

What Statistics Canada clearly said is that there was a campaign to provide inaccurate information.

What's laughable is that you're somehow attempting to argue otherwise because they didn't use the words "conspiracy" and "lie".

To paraphrase what I said before, the real issue is not the fact that some people lied on the census form.

Why isn't that a real issue?

It is not whether or not an e-mail being sent then redistributed constitutes a group effort, or a conspiracy, a plot or whatever. It is the fact that people are putting words in other people's mouth and misrepresenting facts, likely in order to further a francophobic agenda.

No facts have been misrepresented. That the Ottawa Citizen chose to use more controversial language in describing this campaign to provide inaccurate responses to the census does not change that. Statistics Canada has chosen to avoid controversy as much as possible. A newspaper is under no obligation to do the same.

Unfortunately (for you that is), the link does not exist, because of these FACTS:

- the new definition was adopted in 2009, THREE YEARS after the 2006 census

- most importantly, the new definitions includes people whose first language is neither English or french but use French at home. On the other hand, the infamous e-mail was NOT suggesting that people lie on whether or not they understand French, but on whether or not they can speak English as well as French.

Whether the liars did their homework before the campaign is beside the point. They obviously wanted to create a false impression that there was a greater need for french language services than really exists.

And the quote from Ms Meilleur that I provided above explains the problem. She wants to know where french language services are needed.

To paraphrase, the e-mail was not saying "If your first language is Spanish or Mandarin and you don't understand a word of what I am wiritng because it's in French, please indicate on the census form that you use French at home" but "Even if you understand and speak English fluently, say you don't".

I've never said anything other.

Or, to correct your paraphrase: "if we can trick Stats Canada into thinking that Francophones here here in Stittsville cannot understand a word of English, we can keep our French-speaking post-master at the post office!"

I mentioned "postmaster" because I'd just recently read about an Ontario postmaster who lost her job because her little anglophone town somehow got defined as a bilingual community; a bilingual postmaster was required to serve the fictional francophone community. The liars who responded to this census were no doubt hoping to create more fictional francophone communities to create a fictional need for more bilingual services.

-k

[GostHacked]

It is not illegal to lie or give misleading information on a census?

[CANADIEN]

What Statistics Canada clearly said is that there was a campaign to provide inaccurate information.(...)

No facts have been misrepresented. That the Ottawa Citizen chose to use more controversial language in describing this campaign to provide inaccurate responses to the census does not change that. Statistics Canada has chosen to avoid controversy as much as possible. A newspaper is under no obligation to do the same.

What StatsCan says on its Website and what it said to the Ottawa Citizen was misrepresented. And a newspaper as a esposponsibility not to misrepresent what people say. Period.

Whether the liars did their homework before the campaign is beside the point. They obviously wanted to create a false impression that there was a greater need for french language services than really exists.

If YOU did your homework, you would know that the purpose of the e-mail was to give the impression that a substantial number of Francophones cannot speak English..

I've never said anything other.

And I did not say you claimed people were encouraged to lie about what language they speak at home (the point of the new definition). That being said, you keep trying to establish a link between th new definition and the e-mail, when none exist. Edited June 4, 2010 by CANADIEN

[Leafless]

It is not illegal to lie or give misleading information on a census?

It is illegal.

Quote from the Ottawa Citizen article:

The Statistics Act says anyone who lies when participating in a Statistics Canada survey is liable for a $500 fine, but Marc Hamel, manager of the 2011 census, said efforts are never made to track the liars down.

This admission really serves as a great deterrent.

[CANADIEN]

I mentioned "postmaster" because I'd just recently read about an Ontario postmaster who lost her job because her little anglophone town somehow got defined as a bilingual community; a bilingual postmaster was required to serve the fictional francophone community.

Yeah right, the number of people whom the federal government consider to be Francophones (that is, STILL, the number of people whose first language is French and who still understand it) has jsut crossed the threshold determined in the Official Lnaguage Act and regulation for the provision of services in French, so it is a fictional community because some people in that location MAY have lied in the census as to whether or not they understand English. Excuse me while I laugh.

[Leafless]

except when you make a fool of yourself because some Canadians have a CANADIAN mother tongue different than yours and KNOW they do need to lose it to be Canadians.

I know all about it.

The Canadian elite dumped problamatic francophones and third world immigrants in an effort to destroy the culture, lifestyles and traditons of White English speaking Christian Canadians.

[CANADIEN]

And the quote from Ms Meilleur that I provided above explains the problem. She wants to know where french language services are needed.

Duh, her job is to determine the need for delivery of Ontario provincial government services in French.

Once again, no there is no link between the new definition and the infamous e-mail. None.

[CANADIEN]

I know all about it.

The Canadian elite dumped problamatic francophones and third world immigrants in an effort to destroy the culture, lifestyles and traditons of White English speaking Christian Canadians.

Oh yes, your wealth of knowledge. There was no francophone in Canada before Trudeau. And your lifestyle and tradition is being destroyed because someone three blocks from you has a mother tongue other than English, goes to a synagugue or a Buddhist temple, and prefers soccer to Maple Leaf hockey (proving by doing so he knows a bad team when he sees one ).

[Leafless]

Oh yes, your wealth of knowledge. There was no francophone in Canada before Trudeau.

Certainly there were francophone's in Canada before Trudeau.

The only problem was is that they did not have the knowledge or resources to successfully transform their obsolete segregated little French society into a modern functioning society.

That is of course until Trudeau came along with his great anti-English cultural conspiracy.

And your lifestyle and tradition is being destroyed because someone three blocks from you has a mother tongue other than English, goes to a Buddhist temple

That is only scratching the surface, but yes, absolutely.

[kimmy]

What StatsCan says on its Website and what it said to the Ottawa Citizen was misrepresented. And a newspaper as a esposponsibility not to misrepresent what people say. Period.

The Citizen did not misrepresent anything. The use of the words conspiracy and lie is an entirely fair description of what Stats Canada claims occurred, whether Stats Canada chose to describe it that way or not.

If YOU did your homework, you would know that the purpose of the e-mail was to give the impression that a substantial number of Francophones cannot speak English..

ie, creating a false appearance of need for French language services in certain areas.

Yeah right, the number of people whom the federal government consider to be Francophones (that is, STILL, the number of people whose first language is French and who still understand it) has jsut crossed the threshold determined in the Official Lnaguage Act and regulation for the provision of services in French, so it is a fictional community because some people in that location MAY have lied in the census as to whether or not they understand English. Excuse me while I laugh.

The incident I'm thinking of (it was in a MacLean's magazine I read last month) was not a result of new census data. It was a result of a small town being inexplicably added to the "National Capital Region" and being declared "bilingual" as a result.

But whether the cause was an arbitrary bureaucratic decision or liars providing fake information on their census, the result is the same: discriminatory hiring practices by the government.

Duh, her job is to determine the need for delivery of Ontario provincial government services in French.

Yeah, and thanks to a bunch of liars, she's trying to do so based on false information.

-k

[bloodyminded]

I know all about it.

The Canadian elite dumped problamatic francophones and third world immigrants in an effort to destroy the culture, lifestyles and traditons of White English speaking Christian Canadians.

You're right, that was the plan. The "elite" wanted to destroy the culture, "lifestyles" (a word invented by advertisers, by the way, and quite meaningless) and traditions" of English whites.

That's what they wanted. For....some reason, as yet not theorized.

[Machjo]

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/StatsCan+eyes+francophone+conspiracy/3091164/story.html

I always thought Trudeau's 'just society' relating to Francophones and Quebec was about respect.

But then again how can you respect a fascist state like Quebec and this group of cheating, lying Francophones who are trying to manipulate the census for their own benefit in order to guarantee federal funding of programs for Francophones.

You're painting with a wide brush here. Never mind a brush; it's a frigging mop. Couldn't you find anything wider?

Edited June 6, 2010 by Machjo

[Machjo]

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/StatsCan+eyes+francophone+conspiracy/3091164/story.html

I always thought Trudeau's 'just society' relating to Francophones and Quebec was about respect.

But then again how can you respect a fascist state like Quebec and this group of cheating, lying Francophones who are trying to manipulate the census for their own benefit in order to guarantee federal funding of programs for Francophones.

And by the way, have you ever travelled to central Quebec. I can tell you that most people there are genuinely not functional in the English language. I suppose you'll say they're pretending too, that somehow their brains are wired differently that that of other humans so as to allow them to suck up a second language like a sponge? Remember, English is a Germanic language, and French a romance language, grammatically quite different, thus making them more difficult to learn between them.