More Tools roads?

[Topaz]

The environment czar says the ontario government should set up more toll roads to cut down on too many cars on the road in the province. He says the greenhousesd gas emissions would be reduces. I have one question for the czar, why are Ontarians paying for e-mission test for? http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/Ontario+urged+charge+road+tolls/3095065/story.html

[madmax]

The environment czar says the ontario government should set up more toll roads to cut down on too many cars on the road in the province. He says the greenhousesd gas emissions would be reduces. I have one question for the czar, why are Ontarians paying for e-mission test for? http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/Ontario+urged+charge+road+tolls/3095065/story.html

Just another form of government greenwashing. I have heard crazy shit like this from GreenParty Activist too, but its really just bad policy. It does generate revenue.

Toll roads don't cut down the number of cars. It hasn't worked yet. But it does generate government revenues.

IF they wanted to reduced the number of cars on the roads, they have this mechanism called license plates.

But then if the government withheld licence plates or limited them, it would.....

A) Reduce Government revenues through plate sales

and

B ) Reduce the number of cars going through potential toll roads.

Did I mention revenues?

Its time this government is tossed from power. The sooner the better.

Edited June 1, 2010 by madmax

[Jack Weber]

Just another form of government greenwashing. I have heard crazy shit like this from GreenParty Activist too, but its really just bad policy. It does generate revenue.

Toll roads don't cut down the number of cars. It hasn't worked yet. But it does generate government revenues.

IF they wanted to reduced the number of cars on the roads, they have this mechanism called license plates.

But then if the government withheld licence plates or limited them, it would.....

A) Reduce Government revenues through plate sales

and

B ) Reduce the number of cars going through potential toll roads.

Did I mention revenues?

Its time this government is tossed from power. The sooner the better.

Just like the Drive Clean drivel....

I agree these guys need to go,but the choices behind Door Number 2 and Door Number 3 are'nt very appealing...

[TammyFlores]

I hope we have learned enough from the 407 ETR experience. Here you have a road that was built for congestion relief. The public was sold on it's benefit. Legislation was changed in order to have it privately run. Then under the spirit of public/private co-operation, market driven solutions for our needs (which by the way I don't have a problem with as long as the public actually benefits from it)... we have a privately run highway, with public co-operation in that the Ministry of Transportation has become it's collection agency.

Although on paper and through many public announcements, the 407 ETR has put it's best foot forward as saying it has spent $50,000,000.00 to improve it's billing system and customer service. The fact that people are still experiencing billing issues and the 407 ETR instead of dealing with the issues in a lawful manner, will put you in plate denial, is unacceptable.

In 2003, there was a class action lawsuit against them where section 347 of the criminal code was sited (extortion) among many other things for the way it was charging late fees and interest. The 407 was quick to deny any wrong doing under the criminal code and amicably settled reimbursing 100% of late fees and interest charges collected due to billing errors and little more than 1/2 for the exorbatant $30.00 fee.

In 2006, there was what the 407 ETR claimed an "Amicable Settlement of all Disputes" with the Ministry of Transportation. In that settlement under Schedule "B" re: Process for Plate Denial, it was agreed that the Ministry of Transportation would collect unless the charge of the 407 was not lawful.

However, still to this day, in 2010, there are many cases where the 407 ETR does not prove that charges were lawful and yet the Ministry of Transportation will collect on their behalf. I think the 407 ETR can still be challenge with extortion under the criminal code and the Ministry of Transportation may be unknowningly participating in the crime.

Why do I bring all of this up? Because we still have serious problems with the current Toll Road and to start talking about another one is irresponsible. The current condition of the 407 ETR is such that they are abusing the power the government gave them and the govenment is turning a blind eye to it.

Maybe it's time for all the people that have billing issues with the 407 ETR, that has been put in plate denial to band together, go to a Justice of the Peace and inquire about having criminal charges laid against the 407 ETR, under the criminal code for extortion because until they fix their billing issues, in a lawful manner, bringing another Toll Road in spells disaster for the public.

[madmax]

I hadn't heard anything so stupid since those Tools the Tories were in power...

Knew there was something subliminal about that title.

[William Ashley]

The environment czar says the ontario government should set up more toll roads to cut down on too many cars on the road in the province. He says the greenhousesd gas emissions would be reduces. I have one question for the czar, why are Ontarians paying for e-mission test for? http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/Ontario+urged+charge+road+tolls/3095065/story.html

Hi,

1. Emissions tests are to insure that vehicles on the roads meet minimum emissions standards - eg. cars do not put out too much junk.

2. The statement that "too many cars are on the roads" means that there is too much emissions

1+2=3

The Czar said current emissions standards do not reduce emissions enough, but he would rather take cars off the road than lower the minimum standards. Eg. make emissions requirements more stringent.

4. The toll roads would generate government revenue.

5. People off the roads using services like the TTC and GO would increase ridership.

4+5=9. good for the government

6,7,8 - where are these toll roads? Lets see, does this mean say a new "toll lane" on the 401.. that is a novel idea. More roads mean less idleing in rush hour in toronto this would reduce emissions.

I would say a new road even if it were a raised single lange or bilane highway (hugely expensive) "super express" in the core areas would be "good" and you should like the idea of a new toll lane.

PEOPLE WILL PAY to get out of rush hour. IT IS WIN WIN. people may not take the turnoff at the 407, but a paralell toll road with multple on ramps along the core in toronto would be used.

The same premise could be used IN toronto in the downtown. which jamps up to the pace of a walk.

Edited June 6, 2010 by William Ashley

[Topaz]

Well, there should be two sets of rules one for cars in the big cities and one for rural Ontario. There could a lot of problems for people in rural areas. We don't have bus, street cars etc. to hop a ride with. Also, some people just can't afford a new car and I also think this is one way to create more jobs in the auto sector by the government. I would think an 18 wheeler give off more emissions than more cars around and buses or even diesel tractors. BUT, I'm sure alot of Canadians would ride bikes if the feds snd the provinces would give up some cash to communities for bike paths along the highways, how much would that cost?

[madmax]

Hi,

2. The statement that "too many cars are on the roads" means that there is too much emissions

Really, there is too many cars on the roads? I don't think so. There is a larger problem with Urban Sprawl and the restrictions and bottle neck of our roadways. One huge bottleneck is caused by ...

The TOLL ROAD!!!

1+2=3

The Czar said current emissions standards do not reduce emissions enough, but he would rather take cars off the road than lower the minimum standards. Eg. make emissions requirements more stringent.

LOL. There is a way to take cars off the road. A toll road doesn't remove the number of cars on the road.

4. The toll roads would generate government revenue.

Bravo. Bottomline. So do all taxes. However, the 407ETR isn't creating a DIME for the government. We SOLD IT. Toll roads are great for Private ownership.

5. People off the roads using services like the TTC and GO would increase ridership.

Bottlenecks and stuck on the highway is more of an incentive to use public transportation.

And there is NO TTC or GO where I live, but the TRAIN is used to avoid....

Bottlenecks.

Its funny where these policy makers come from.

Our highways are not built and paid for by the taxpayer so that the wealthy may benefit if they can afford a toll, or get preferential treatment.

If you believe there are "Too many cars" and I don't believe that for a minute, then the government doesn't have to issue license plates. The government should REMOVE Tollroads as they are the CREATION OF CONGESTION. Open up the toll road and traffic will flow on all other arteries easier.

If there are two many cars....and you want them reduced, shouldn't we stop building toll roads?

The problem isn't the roads as much as it is Urban Sprawl and developers having their say in choking off roads.

Regardless, 99% of your post is on revenues and 1% is on emissions.

Just like the government. Its all about the money.

Our public transit system was better 30 years ago then it is today. Its not because more cars are on the road. Its because the government turned away from public transit.

That fact remains to this day. Look at the actions of the Federal Conservatives. And then look at the past actions of the Mulroney Conservatives when he started dismantling and privatizing rail.

Car emissions are lower and will continue to decline. If the minister is worried about GreenHouse Gasses, he should take a look at homeownership. Oh yeah, he did, smart meters.

Another red herring.

Sucker born everyminute.

[TammyFlores]

LOL. There is a way to take cars off the road. A toll road doesn't remove the number of cars on the road.

Bravo. Bottomline. So do all taxes. However, the 407ETR isn't creating a DIME for the government. We SOLD IT. Toll roads are great for Private ownership.

Bottlenecks and stuck on the highway is more of an incentive to use public transportation.

And there is NO TTC or GO where I live, but the TRAIN is used to avoid....

Bottlenecks.

Its funny where these policy makers come from.

Our highways are not built and paid for by the taxpayer so that the wealthy may benefit if they can afford a toll, or get preferential treatment.

If you believe there are "Too many cars" and I don't believe that for a minute, then the government doesn't have to issue license plates. The government should REMOVE Tollroads as they are the CREATION OF CONGESTION. Open up the toll road and traffic will flow on all other arteries easier.

If there are two many cars....and you want them reduced, shouldn't we stop building toll roads?

The problem isn't the roads as much as it is Urban Sprawl and developers having their say in choking off roads.

Regardless, 99% of your post is on revenues and 1% is on emissions.

Just like the government. Its all about the money.

Our public transit system was better 30 years ago then it is today. Its not because more cars are on the road. Its because the government turned away from public transit.

That fact remains to this day. Look at the actions of the Federal Conservatives. And then look at the past actions of the Mulroney Conservatives when he started dismantling and privatizing rail.

Car emissions are lower and will continue to decline. If the minister is worried about GreenHouse Gasses, he should take a look at homeownership. Oh yeah, he did, smart meters.

Another red herring.

Sucker born everyminute.

I have to agree that when a block of land comes up for development, more should be done re: Transportation, however, every Municipality/Region can C.Y.A. by using the live/work designs and other Transit initiatives, ect... Get smart enough engineers on the case and anything will look good on paper. The Provincial Policy Statement, due to be re looked at needs to absolutely address this.

Check this out. https://www.placestogrow.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9&Itemid=14 "Places to Grow" is a 25 year initative. Some highlights are to revitalize downtowns to become vibrant and convenient centres.

Create complete communities that offer more options for living, working, learning, shopping and playing. Provide housing options to meet the needs of people at any age. Curb sprawl and protect farmland and green spaces. Reduce traffic gridlock by improving access to a greater range of transportation options.

Looks like it's a great initiative, but needs serious tweeking because of the intensification in already developed areas, these people are not working where they live, hence the traffic jams that we experience every single day. The 407 ETR, in my opinion, without looking at the numbers basically took the growth from the 905 area off the 401, not much "Congestion Relief" for the already existing congestion.

The talk of more Toll Roads makes the hair on my arms stand up because questions come up like will it be another Public/Private adventure? If so, will the public continue to be extorted because the government refuses to hold the private partner accountable for shaby business practices, wrong billing and the worse customer service on the face of the planet?

Because they are small amounts being extorted, does that make it easier to turn a blind eye? The current Private/Public relationship between the Ministry of Transportation and the 407 ETR is so convuluted and muddied that they just double talk and try to brush you off when you have a serious problem. THIS IS NOT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE PUBLIC!!!

[William Ashley]

LOL. There is a way to take cars off the road. A toll road doesn't remove the number of cars on the road.

Here is why you are wrong.

It takes me 50 minutes via the ETR to get to my final destination.

That same trip can take upwards of 2 hours on the 401. Due to rushhour.

Likewise it can take me 2 hours to clear downtown in rushhour - people literally walk faster than I can drive.

There is no direct alternate route (not that there is much parking in downtown anyway).

So you are wrong because you arn't taking in the idling to knowwhere factor. If people can drive then they get to their destination faster. People who pay will have a less jammed road - why get on a jammed road if you are on a jammed road? Fact is, if the road is jammed, that means that a lot of people have paid. But it means a lot of revenues. The logic is simple. And you are wrong, if you make people travel times faster they go from the road to a parking metre or into their parking spot or home earlier, those arn't the road. So you are wrong in your assessment. That 1 billion security budget for the G8/G20 meeting probably could have paid for a toll lane in both places, along the 401 and downtown toronto. Instead it goes to hosting 3 days of meetings - it is absurd.

Bravo. Bottomline. So do all taxes. However, the 407ETR isn't creating a DIME for the government. We SOLD IT. Toll roads are great for Private ownership.

There is a difference a good plan and a bad plan. Fact is the 407 will pay for itself. You are wrong a second time. The government sold it because it could manage a budget without spending more funds than were available requiring sale of assets. Get it straight.

Bottlenecks and stuck on the highway is more of an incentive to use public transportation.

There are maximum threshholds for ridership.

And there is NO TTC or GO where I live, but the TRAIN is used to avoid....

Bottlenecks.

You are right to a certain extent on the whole thing about public transport, but fact is, it can cost MORE.

Also it is more conveinent to drive a car in some places. Some areas don't have public transit. There is a clear contrast between peoples activities and the reality. Some areas simply arn't connected to the network, other people havn't had time to book ahead of time. Other people work in areas where they arn't connected. Other people have early shifts - then they have thier car. People would have to get up at say 5 am to go to the bus station, etc.. then take 2 hours of buses to get somewhere they could get in an hour. Also some people need to have the dependability of their own vehicle. Some people need to go multiple places or run errands. Some people need to transport materials, some people car pool. Fact is that it may take 20$ in gas to go 100km, but that split between 2 people is 10$ the lowest price bus ticket might be 20$ for that same route. So why pay more, especially when you can put 5$ into the toll price, then have the liberty of your own vehicle, control of temperature, sound, the ability to stop for something to eat or to stop in somewhere for something else. You are advocating limiting people, while i am advocating providing more services for people. Frankly I think public transporation is a good thing, but it doesn't work for everyone. Some people drive through the 401 - and don't even stop in Toronto. While you can reduce traffic, it will still be there, and people still use it.

There is nothing wrong with improving services by having them pay for themselves but be run by the government. All government services need not be free, nor is it disallowed for them to make money - that is the only way we will ever get rid of taxes - to provide services and product people want, and are willing to pay for.

Our highways are not built and paid for by the taxpayer so that the wealthy may benefit if they can afford a toll, or get preferential treatment.

Put the wealthy aside, why not organize a public project that the people who pay for it get to use it.

I had a discussion about healthcare with my father today. He was upset that foriegner get healthcare even though he's paid into it for years - yet the government now wants to charge everyone 25$ for a doctors appointment. I understood what he was saying but he didn't get that he had access to healthcare for all the years he paid into it.

So what worked for me was giving people a certain number of free visists a year - set to a reasonable number - then charging beyond that eg. a checkup every six months. If you don't use your visits then they accumulate to the next year. Same would go for medical care - people who are responsible with their health would have a certain amount of funds set aside annually - say 95% of their tax payment (cause that is how much of the program dollar is being spent on healthcare in ontario - 95 cents on every dollar), if they don't use it, it accumulates. People would quickly opt for private health insurance instead of this because they won't be able to pay for that million dollar operation. The fact is though it starts to address it.

The same system starts to work for a toll route that the public pays to build. Well give everyone their fare share of the cost of building tolls. Eg. the road cost 200 million dollars, so that is 20 million tax payers - works out to 10$ of free ridership for each tax payer.

Fact is though that a route that connects parallel with the 401 - the busiest highway in Canada - in the clog zone befor toronto to after toronto would be used, and it would generate money. There is no reason not to create a project that makes the government money. In calafornia I notice a lot more raised roads. If not raised why not a tunnel? I personally think that a well managed project would be a public benefit. The expanse is maybe 30km, and it would generate money, that would lower taxes. What is bad about it?

If you believe there are "Too many cars" and I don't believe that for a minute, then the government doesn't have to issue license plates.

Sadly I think technology and durability is the issue. We need cars that last a lifetime, not cars that are good for 5 or 10 years. Cars made of non ferous technologies so they don't rust, tires that last longer so they don't clog landfills, and cars that don't run on petrol so they don't give people cancer.

The government should REMOVE Tollroads as they are the CREATION OF CONGESTION.

I disagree - the government should make all roads toll roads that arn't essential roadways - so that people don't drive if they don't need to. Or the people with money pay for the privelege. So that we can lower everyones taxes so we can all aford the privelege.

Open up the toll road and traffic will flow on all other arteries easier.

I think that this works to a certain extent - and I think a reasonable limit of free ridership should be allowed. Eg.

I or two days a month, eg. if there is low ridership on the toll road such as 407 then a sign or flashing light could

indicate more free riderships are allowed. But there would be a slowdown halt. Eg. if the road starts getting full

then it would go back to pay only.

If there are two many cars....and you want them reduced, shouldn't we stop building toll roads?

I think only some places are good for toll roads - places that have congestion problems - usually only the 401,

don valley parkway, and QEW. I'm not aware of other high traffic areas in Ontario. And I've driven most of it.

The problem isn't the roads as much as it is Urban Sprawl and developers having their say in choking off roads.

People need to live somewhere. Fact is the infrastructure was made, is it going to provide a higher quality of life to abandon it or to accommodate it? Urban sprawl is an issue but people got to live somewhere. I still think your problem is that you are trying to tell people how they should live, instead of providing services for their lives.

I advocate for enhancing peoples life, not controlling it.

Regardless, 99% of your post is on revenues and 1% is on emissions.

You miss the a car that arrives isn't in transit. You don't see the whole system.

Just like the government. Its all about the money.

No it is about enhancing quality of life and responsible government, responsible tax reducing, self sustaining government.

Our public transit system was better 30 years ago then it is today. Its not because more cars are on the road. Its because the government turned away from public transit.

Public transit can go a long way, but we need to be realistic in what areas will be self sustaining.

That fact remains to this day. Look at the actions of the Federal Conservatives. And then look at the past actions of the Mulroney Conservatives when he started dismantling and privatizing rail.

Car emissions are lower and will continue to decline. If the minister is worried about GreenHouse Gasses, he should take a look at homeownership. Oh yeah, he did, smart meters.

0 emissions are the only good emissions.

[William Ashley]

a heads up though the 407 wasn't sold it was a longterm lease, and the govenrment still owns the land.

[TammyFlores]

Here is why you are wrong.

It takes me 50 minutes via the ETR to get to my final destination.

That same trip can take upwards of 2 hours on the 401. Due to rushhour.

Likewise it can take me 2 hours to clear downtown in rushhour - people literally walk faster than I can drive.

There is no direct alternate route (not that there is much parking in downtown anyway).

So you are wrong because you arn't taking in the idling to knowwhere factor. If people can drive then they get to their destination faster. People who pay will have a less jammed road - why get on a jammed road if you are on a jammed road? Fact is, if the road is jammed, that means that a lot of people have paid. But it means a lot of revenues. The logic is simple. And you are wrong, if you make people travel times faster they go from the road to a parking metre or into their parking spot or home earlier, those arn't the road. So you are wrong in your assessment. That 1 billion security budget for the G8/G20 meeting probably could have paid for a toll lane in both places, along the 401 and downtown toronto. Instead it goes to hosting 3 days of meetings - it is absurd.

There is a difference a good plan and a bad plan. Fact is the 407 will pay for itself. You are wrong a second time. The government sold it because it could manage a budget without spending more funds than were available requiring sale of assets. Get it straight.

There are maximum threshholds for ridership.

You are right to a certain extent on the whole thing about public transport, but fact is, it can cost MORE.

Also it is more conveinent to drive a car in some places. Some areas don't have public transit. There is a clear contrast between peoples activities and the reality. Some areas simply arn't connected to the network, other people havn't had time to book ahead of time. Other people work in areas where they arn't connected. Other people have early shifts - then they have thier car. People would have to get up at say 5 am to go to the bus station, etc.. then take 2 hours of buses to get somewhere they could get in an hour. Also some people need to have the dependability of their own vehicle. Some people need to go multiple places or run errands. Some people need to transport materials, some people car pool. Fact is that it may take 20$ in gas to go 100km, but that split between 2 people is 10$ the lowest price bus ticket might be 20$ for that same route. So why pay more, especially when you can put 5$ into the toll price, then have the liberty of your own vehicle, control of temperature, sound, the ability to stop for something to eat or to stop in somewhere for something else. You are advocating limiting people, while i am advocating providing more services for people. Frankly I think public transporation is a good thing, but it doesn't work for everyone. Some people drive through the 401 - and don't even stop in Toronto. While you can reduce traffic, it will still be there, and people still use it.

There is nothing wrong with improving services by having them pay for themselves but be run by the government. All government services need not be free, nor is it disallowed for them to make money - that is the only way we will ever get rid of taxes - to provide services and product people want, and are willing to pay for.

Put the wealthy aside, why not organize a public project that the people who pay for it get to use it.

I had a discussion about healthcare with my father today. He was upset that foriegner get healthcare even though he's paid into it for years - yet the government now wants to charge everyone 25$ for a doctors appointment. I understood what he was saying but he didn't get that he had access to healthcare for all the years he paid into it.

So what worked for me was giving people a certain number of free visists a year - set to a reasonable number - then charging beyond that eg. a checkup every six months. If you don't use your visits then they accumulate to the next year. Same would go for medical care - people who are responsible with their health would have a certain amount of funds set aside annually - say 95% of their tax payment (cause that is how much of the program dollar is being spent on healthcare in ontario - 95 cents on every dollar), if they don't use it, it accumulates. People would quickly opt for private health insurance instead of this because they won't be able to pay for that million dollar operation. The fact is though it starts to address it.

The same system starts to work for a toll route that the public pays to build. Well give everyone their fare share of the cost of building tolls. Eg. the road cost 200 million dollars, so that is 20 million tax payers - works out to 10$ of free ridership for each tax payer.

Fact is though that a route that connects parallel with the 401 - the busiest highway in Canada - in the clog zone befor toronto to after toronto would be used, and it would generate money. There is no reason not to create a project that makes the government money. In calafornia I notice a lot more raised roads. If not raised why not a tunnel? I personally think that a well managed project would be a public benefit. The expanse is maybe 30km, and it would generate money, that would lower taxes. What is bad about it?

Sadly I think technology and durability is the issue. We need cars that last a lifetime, not cars that are good for 5 or 10 years. Cars made of non ferous technologies so they don't rust, tires that last longer so they don't clog landfills, and cars that don't run on petrol so they don't give people cancer.

I disagree - the government should make all roads toll roads that arn't essential roadways - so that people don't drive if they don't need to. Or the people with money pay for the privelege. So that we can lower everyones taxes so we can all aford the privelege.

I think that this works to a certain extent - and I think a reasonable limit of free ridership should be allowed. Eg.

I or two days a month, eg. if there is low ridership on the toll road such as 407 then a sign or flashing light could

indicate more free riderships are allowed. But there would be a slowdown halt. Eg. if the road starts getting full

then it would go back to pay only.

I think only some places are good for toll roads - places that have congestion problems - usually only the 401,

don valley parkway, and QEW. I'm not aware of other high traffic areas in Ontario. And I've driven most of it.

People need to live somewhere. Fact is the infrastructure was made, is it going to provide a higher quality of life to abandon it or to accommodate it? Urban sprawl is an issue but people got to live somewhere. I still think your problem is that you are trying to tell people how they should live, instead of providing services for their lives.

I advocate for enhancing peoples life, not controlling it.

You miss the a car that arrives isn't in transit. You don't see the whole system.

No it is about enhancing quality of life and responsible government, responsible tax reducing, self sustaining government.

Public transit can go a long way, but we need to be realistic in what areas will be self sustaining.

0 emissions are the only good emissions.

Here's what everyone is missing. Better planning is required than the status quo. The 407 was built for "Congestion Relief", not to shorten our commute times. Problem has always been improper planning for the Province's growth plan.

The 407 merely takes the growth portion of the 905er's. It does little for the existing congestion. With the "Places to Grow" initative there has been more intensification in all ready developed areas. That growth does not work within their communities. They commute.

407 was not sold. It was leased for a private company to operate. Province owns the highway. They can not sell our infrastructure. I say they should start collecting the congestion relief charges from the 407 because their costs, customer services and billing issues do not encourage anyone to take that highway. I commute on the 401 everyday and I do not see any congestion relief.

Private/public relationships require more accountability than what there is currently. To bring more Toll Roads without fixing the current problem is a mistake.

Edited June 8, 2010 by TammyFlores

[Oleg Bach]

The environment czar says the ontario government should set up more toll roads to cut down on too many cars on the road in the province. He says the greenhousesd gas emissions would be reduces. I have one question for the czar, why are Ontarians paying for e-mission test for? http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/Ontario+urged+charge+road+tolls/3095065/story.html

Hey once that is done - we can sell the road to China - and when I don't pay the toll - some bureaucrat sitting eight thousand miles away can pull my drivers permit.

[TammyFlores]

Hey once that is done - we can sell the road to China - and when I don't pay the toll - some bureaucrat sitting eight thousand miles away can pull my drivers permit.

It's not even about paying the toll. It's about them being able to charge you what ever they want, without justification, just a number on an invoice and taking away your driver's permit. Schedule B of the agreement the Ministry signed with the Province says the plate denial process is enforceable unless the charges are not lawful. Because the Province wants the relationship with their private partner to work, they turn a blind eye to what this company is doing to the people in the Province of Ontario. This absolutely must change.

[Oleg Bach]

It's not even about paying the toll. It's about them being able to charge you what ever they want, without justification, just a number on an invoice and taking away your driver's permit. Schedule B of the agreement the Ministry signed with the Province says the plate denial process is enforceable unless the charges are not lawful. Because the Province wants the relationship with their private partner to work, they turn a blind eye to what this company is doing to the people in the Province of Ontario. This absolutely must change.

Personally I am getting tired of tax dollars being used to build things for big bucks and then sold from under our asses to private concerns - when are we going to stop bailing our our own and those abroad? People should say in the most juvenile way "you are not the boss of me!" Every last buck that goes into any sort of utility belongs to who paid for it..why do these bullies think that we were born to support them? The old Dome Stadium and the 407 highway are prime examples of the theft of public funds.