Can't compete with immigrants.

[wyly]

The difference is, in Germany and France, Immigrants get nothing. Immigrants genuinly get the jobs they don't want. Immigrants don't get credit to buy anything and they certainly are NOT looked at as citizens. Why should I accept your BS to propogate immigrants at the expense of Canadians.

you really don't have a clue about the facts in Canada and now you're spreading BS about somewhere you've never been

[Jack Weber]

The difference is, in Germany and France, Immigrants get nothing. Immigrants genuinly get the jobs they don't want. Immigrants don't get credit to buy anything and they certainly are NOT looked at as citizens. Why should I accept your BS to propogate immigrants at the expense of Canadians.

Yes...

And in France's case,they end up in impoverished ethnic ghetto's with no economic opportunity.Which was one of the reasons for the riots in France a few years ago...

[bloodyminded]

What is wrong with you?

You mean, how could someone possibly disagree with whowhere.

The discussion at hand is corporate HR and hiring manager scum highering immigrants over Canadians to save a buck. These immigrants make it harder on Canadians looking for work. These immigrants have degraded working environments and driven down wages.

Again: the immigrants have not driven down wages. The employers have driven down wages. The immigrants do not come in and strong-arm employers to pay them LESS.

If there is fault here, it is the employers' fault.

100%. Not the immigrants.

[whowhere]

you really don't have a clue about the facts in Canada and now you're spreading BS about somewhere you've never been

Really, I suggest you investigate. Immigrants/Temporary workers/work permits are only entitled to work. They get no credit and usually end up living in high rise complexes made up of like workers. After maybe 6 or 7 years of work they are eligible to apply for landed resident to citizenship status. That is how real countries operate. Canada is guilty of making being a citizen worthless except for the immigrants who are getting a life at Canadians expense.

In the world of conjecture there is no such thing as a free lunch.

BTW, Yes I have been to both Germany and France.

[whowhere]

Yes...

And in France's case,they end up in impoverished ethnic ghetto's with no economic opportunity.Which was one of the reasons for the riots in France a few years ago...

Nothing tear gas and pepper spray can't fix.

[whowhere]

You mean, how could someone possibly disagree with whowhere.

Again: the immigrants have not driven down wages. The employers have driven down wages. The immigrants do not come in and strong-arm employers to pay them LESS.

If there is fault here, it is the employers' fault.

100%. Not the immigrants.

In a market economy, an over supply (onslaught of immigrants) represses prices. Economics 101.

[bloodyminded]

In a market economy, an over supply (onslaught of immigrants) represses prices. Economics 101.

In human relations, the people with the power and the money make the decisions. Elementary truisms 101.

The employers make a choice. Choices have consequences, for good, bad, both, or neutral.

But they are making choices. They don't HAVE to do what they do.

[whowhere]

In human relations, the people with the power and the money make the decisions. Elementary truisms 101.

The employers make a choice. Choices have consequences, for good, bad, both, or neutral.

But they are making choices. They don't HAVE to do what they do.

And the Employer is choosing to hire immigrants over Canadians. They do this to degrade work environments and repress pay. Elementary Canadian Truisms 101.

Edited March 13, 2010 by whowhere

[Argus]

EI isn't gov't benefits. They are paid into from working people (involuntarily). I've paid into EI all my years. It's a 'working persons' thing.

Also you're right. I might have to go work at Wal-Mart or some place like that to support the mortgage of worse comes to worse.

And all the Canadians love it. They love to see someone who went to school and did all the right things be pressured out of the job market and lose their home. They LOVE it.

No, Mikedavid, you're wrong. I've never met anyone who enjoyed the thought of people being underemployed - on any side of the political spectrum. It's a massive waste of resources to train someone to a certain profession which is needed, ie, IT, and then employ them as waiters and car park attendants and wal-mart cashiers. Unfortunately, our skills training and integreation programs in this country are very poorly designed, and companies will always go out of their way to hire people at the lowest possible wages.

[Argus]

Sure, no problem. I was working at the Canadian Space Agency (their headquarters are in Saint-Hubert, about a 1 hour commute from where I lived in Montreal). My job involved data analysis from a set of experiments conducted on a number of space shuttle flights a few years prior to that. The job was nominally advertised as "bilingual preferred", however, despite me being unable to complete even one sentence in French during my telephone interview, I got hired.

Yes, you got hired the same way I got hired initially for the federal government. That is, you lucked out. There were no bilingual people left in the pool in my case. In your case, for whatever reason, no one bilingual applied with the requisite skill set. If they had, you would not have been hired.

Still, the recommendation to just "learn french" is absurd given the circumstances here.

[Argus]

I took my French courses, while working in Montreal, at McGill University and it certainly cost nowhere near what you mention. Obviously, I was not taking 5 hours per day since I had a full time job. 5 hours per day is not necessary when you are living in an environment where you can immerse yourself in French. I had 6 hours of courses per week.

Well, the federal government thinks otherwise. The University of Ottawa offers intensive 3 week French classes at $1400 each, so I don't think they're any cheaper. Anglophones (is English your first language?) have a lot of trouble picking up French, especially if they're older. By contrast, English is considerably easier for Francophones to pick up.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Argus

[Argus]

I'm saying the immigrants have already sold and moved. They did and now they've got the job. Seems like it's David's turn.

And you think it's illegitimate for him to question why his government is bringing in immigrants from foreign countries to displace him?

[Argus]

Point is, sitting and complaining about immigrants isn't gonna get you a job. Learning new skills and networking, on the other hand, will.

Granted. But you're also talking from the position of someone who has no need to worry about immigrants ever displacing him from his employment. There are vast numbers of Canadians who do legitimately have such worries and question government policy objectives.

And that's especially so given the government HAS no published policy objectives insofar as immigration is concerned. It has never stated why we get the numbers we get, or what formulas or studies it has done which established that X number of immigrants is desirable for X reasons.

Personally, I believe immigration policy has no national objectives but is entirely due to the political objectives of the parties concerned.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Argus

[Argus]

that is a free market, supply and demand...product is too expensive, make it cheaper or better or go broke..too many fishermen then retrain, too many butchers, retrain..the good get jobs those who aren't retrain or get kicked to the curb...

You make it sound like this "retrain" is simply a staples easy button you push, and presto, you've got new skills.

In fact, government retraining programs are absysmally bad in almost everything they do. The entire system of post secondary education in this country needs to be reworked to provide quick, capable skills training in concert with industry.

:lol: :lol:

Ever the intellectual.

In fact, some feel that if you add in all those who are working in jobs well below their potential the unemployment could indeed go that high. University grads working as waiters or stock boys in wal-mart are not, to my mind, properly employed.

[Argus]

actually lets make this clear, every western industrialized country is doing exactly what Canada is, Germany, France, Japan, Netherlands, Sweden every country is relying on immigration to offset low birth rates...

I won't bother to look at all of them - except to say that Japan is certainly not among them, but I can say with reasonable assurance none of them are taking in as many immigrants we are on a per capita basis.

[bjre]

No, Mikedavid, you're wrong. I've never met anyone who enjoyed the thought of people being underemployed - on any side of the political spectrum. It's a massive waste of resources to train someone to a certain profession which is needed, ie, IT, and then employ them as waiters and car park attendants and wal-mart cashiers. Unfortunately, our skills training and integreation programs in this country are very poorly designed, and companies will always go out of their way to hire people at the lowest possible wages.

Using EI to do professional training is wasting tax payer's money. Those money goes to the trainers and government who arrange for that.

When a person find a job after training, another person lost his chance to get the job. It don't add a single more job opportunity. It is just a another lie.

The better way is give the money to the employer who hire those who have problem in finding a job, if any employer hire those people, he get some percentage of wage deductible, that will make employer be able to hire more people with same amount of money, that means more job opportunity created.

There should be other better ways to encourage people to create their own business and encourage employers to hire more people.

If unemployment rate is high, it means there are lots of places for government to do something. If government can not make it lower, it means the government is not doing a good job.

Edited March 13, 2010 by bjre

[Michael Hardner]

Canada's wealth is dependent on other countries manufactured items.

As their economies become more successful, ours declines.

Last time I checked Canada's GDP is generated by 75% services and only 15% manufacturing.

We are in the process of self obliteration.

Immigration will be outmoded along with just about everything else.

And other countries are dependent upon our natural resources, and our technology. If we don't have manufacturing, does our economy then fail ?

[Michael Hardner]

When I was working at the gov't it was like a dream. A fantasy. Sitting at each others cubes for 45 min chatting about nothing to pass by the day. Shopping at the Rideau Center during work hours at the Eatons. Oh those days. Just not showing up to work. Coming in at 10am. Wow was I ever wrong about the real world. I learned my lessons when I got out to the private sector.

I hope you don't discuss your work ethic this way in interviews.

Your story is starting to sound puffed-up to me. How would you know the race and gender of all those people who got hired instead of you ?

[Michael Hardner]

F*** OFF!! YOU ARE CAUSING ME TO LOSE WORK AND LOSE MY COUNTRY, COMMUNITY, AND DREAM).

You really come off as being a shill unfortunate, who is blaming others for his problems. You have, in Canada, a system that provides you a safety net as well as a business environment that allows you to go it alone if you so choose. Does EI last for 6 months these days or is it 1 year ? In either case, you have had adequate time to readjust your plans.

I was let go in January due to economic conditions. My plan was to go all-out through my network to find something new as soon as possible in my field. I would adjust my budget and would supplement EI payments from savings, or credit if it came to that. When EI was within 2 months of running out, I would investigate plan B alternatives, such as drastic budget cuts, taking any job possible or even moving. Luckily it didn't come to that, and my network came through for me within a month.

I have to take your posts in good faith, and as such my advice is to adjust your attitude and face reality. Your skills aren't currently very marketable at the wage you're looking for. This happened to me in late 1999, and I had to accept work at about 1/2 of what I was making. Now after realigning and retraining, and many stop-gap jobs, I'm almost where I was then.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Michael Hardner

[Michael Hardner]

Take your lumps. Telling someone to relocate is not a solution.

When someone stands on the fact that the country owes them something, they should note that the country was built by immigrants and, importantly, migrants from region to region.

[whowhere]

I hope you don't discuss your work ethic this way in interviews.

Your story is starting to sound puffed-up to me. How would you know the race and gender of all those people who got hired instead of you ?

Actually, I was sent over by an employment agency to interview for a position related to my work of interest. I have a college program and work experience related to the position. In the interview, the interviewer said they had a number of new entrants to Canada working for them and they recently hired one a few weeks before. For some reason I didn't get the position.

I have reason to regard HR & Hiring Managers as scum of the earth. Proof is in the observation. I have seen it on numerous occasions and I have experienced it.

[whowhere]

When someone stands on the fact that the country owes them something, they should note that the country was built by immigrants and, importantly, migrants from region to region.

Canada was an extension of France and a result of British Settlement polices. Immigration is a phenomenom of the last 30 years. Spin your new reality it doesn't jive with historical fact.

[Shwa]

Canada was an extension of France and a result of British Settlement polices. Immigration is a phenomenom of the last 30 years. Spin your new reality it doesn't jive with historical fact.

History of Immigration to Canada - wiki article

Immigration- Canadian Encyclopedia article

Moving Here, Staying Here - The Canadian Immigrant Experience - National Archives of Canada

Now, I see what Mr. Hardner says as pretty spot on which would indicate your knowledge of Canada is limited to a span of 30 years. Which would be a phenomenon in itself, but a thread in its own right.

[Michael Hardner]

Actually, I was sent over by an employment agency to interview for a position related to my work of interest. I have a college program and work experience related to the position. In the interview, the interviewer said they had a number of new entrants to Canada working for them and they recently hired one a few weeks before. For some reason I didn't get the position.

For some reason ? Did he tell you "We've given the job to a Chinese lady" ? You got an interview, though. That seems to indicate that you were in the running.

"I've lost jobs to Russians, Pakistani's, Chinese.. oh yes.. that last lady I lost my job to."

I have reason to regard HR & Hiring Managers as scum of the earth. Proof is in the observation. I have seen it on numerous occasions and I have experienced it.

At least they're doing their jobs and not shopping in the Rideau Centre, hm ?

Edited March 13, 2010 by Michael Hardner

[Michael Hardner]

Canada was an extension of France and a result of British Settlement polices. Immigration is a phenomenom of the last 30 years. Spin your new reality it doesn't jive with historical fact.

The British and French weren't immigrants ? There weren't migrants moving from province to province ?