Canada vs US Steel aka Israel Steel and Rockefeller

[Peter F]

Bear in mind this is one of the most powerful Jewish companies in the world, and an american one.

And why must that be borne in mind? Is there some signifigance?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

In some ways yes, in other ways no. Canadian Natives are way better off than American Natives.

Well that is why it really should just revert to the government, if it can't be managed as a crown corp for profit it won't be.

Personally I think US Steel scuttled the Canadian production for US production, and damaged the Canadian industry intentionally to slow down its growth and potential competition. While one company can aim to fill its orders in hard times it is 10x worse when you have someone undercutting you. Fact is I think US Steel sold out Canada in favor of Pittsburg.

I would suggest that in a case of a contractual violation the incident should be resolved in a court of law. That said I would be very impressed with the Harper folks if they actually went this way. An NDP government would for sure, under the Liberals, it is very damned likely. For my two cents, I would suggest that if we proceeded legally we would likely prevail. That is to say we would win in court, but there are political considerations to think about.

[William Ashley]

I would suggest that in a case of a contractual violation the incident should be resolved in a court of law. That said I would be very impressed with the Harper folks if they actually went this way. An NDP government would for sure, under the Liberals, it is very damned likely. For my two cents, I would suggest that if we proceeded legally we would likely prevail. That is to say we would win in court, but there are political considerations to think about.

The courtcase is making some news - I troll the news daily, which is why I noticed it and noted the comparison to the 1.8 Billion deal with China energy (also note Suncor just laid off an aditional 2000 workers - as 18 billion is set to be pumped into more natural gas when Suncor can't even maintain employment levels? And the sale of Athabasca majority is getting pumped into a natural gas pipeline - good business - you tell me... (increased availability usually isn't good for prices)

So yes the government took them to court - and it took long enough too (too little too late). This isn't a unique occurence either. Personally it is a waste of time and stalls the development even longer. US Steel admitted to the breach and are now trying to argue the law isn't good enough, and that is pretty bad. How often do you hear murderors go to court and say that they killed the person but the law isn't specific in saying what weapons used will constitute an offence of murder?

This isn't about winning it is about the 1500 workers who are out of work and the mills that are closed and not generating productivity in the province.

Edited January 13, 2010 by William Ashley

[William Ashley]

And why must that be borne in mind? Is there some signifigance?

Because the Cons have been kissing Jewish but trying to win them over and away from the liberals. Attacking one of the worlds if not the worlds largest Jewish company ain't gonna win them any jewish votes.

[GrizzlyBear]

The absolute last thing our government should be doing is buying companies; leave that to the private sector. When government gets involved money is squandered, resources become poorly allocated.

[William Ashley]

The absolute last thing our government should be doing is buying companies; leave that to the private sector. When government gets involved money is squandered, resources become poorly allocated.

I think there is room for government to be accountable - you won't get that from the Harper Government though. Public interest companies serve a role and that is to do things that startup companies can't. There are more factors than profit, but instead development and the effect the companies operations have on people.

Private companies simply don't have the mandate to protect public interest outside of laws crafted to control them. In Canada atleast you don't have the same level of oversight or the willingness to bind companies legally to serve public interest. Sadly in this instance the company, US Steel, made a comitment to the people of Canada, and it turned its back on Canada.

If Canada were to go the whole 10, it would charge the people who negotiated the deal for US steel with Criminal Fraud, and Civil Tort, rather than simple breach and forced divestment of their Stelco assets and a 5 million dollar fine.

Edited January 13, 2010 by William Ashley

[bush_cheney2004]

...If Canada were to go the whole 10, it would charge the people who negotiated the deal for US steel with Criminal Fraud, and Civil Tort, rather than simple breach and forced divestment of their Stelco assets and a 5 million dollar fine.

Go for it, but you will find that the same flawed language in the Investment Canada Act will leave USS laughing all the way to the bank....$5 million is chump change for them.

[Jack Weber]

Canadian natives are alive, that automatically makes them better than US natives.

As for regular steel - Iron is losing its lustre, Molybdenum (stainless steel) is where its at.

I'm a welder...You're wrong!!!

[William Ashley]

Go for it, but you will find that the same flawed language in the Investment Canada Act will leave USS laughing all the way to the bank....$5 million is chump change for them.

Try reading the English version.

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/ica-lic.nsf/eng/home

[Rue]

Ok, well I'm not sure why you say Israel isn't a religion when you said this above:

Thanks Michael for pointing out his disconnect when he Jooo baits.

May I say to my American imperialist swine friend Bush-Chaney I

would prefer his Yankee imperialists by out Stelco and employ people

then have Hamiltonians remain unemployed. Call me short sighted.

As well the Joo baiting and suggestion the American company has been

circumcized speaks for itself.

On a more serious note, we Canadians have no business whining about

this-if an American wants to step up and invest and no Canadian wants

to, then shut the phack up I say. We can't have it both ways.

Just remember Busch-Chan, you won ONE jr. championship. Just calm down.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Rue

[bush_cheney2004]

May I say to my American imperialist swine friend Bush-Chaney I

would prefer his Yankee imperialists by out Stelco and employ people

then have Hamiltonians remain unemployed. Call me short sighted.

..and I would prefer that Canadian imperialists do the same....so what?

On a more serious note, we Canadians have no business whining about

this-if an American wants to step up and invest and no Canadian wants

to, then shut the phack up I say. We can't have it both ways.

But some sure seem to want it both ways...Canada even created an Investment Canada Act. I guess that is more like a pay for sex Act?

Just remember Busch-Chan, you won ONE jr. championship. Just calm down.

Juniors? Big news in Canada....in the USA...not so much.

[Wild Bill]

But some sure seem to want it both ways...Canada even created an Investment Canada Act. I guess that is more like a pay for sex Act?

This is all happening in my town, BC. It's all very simple. Stelco was on the block and US Steel made a bid. They won the deal, taking all manner of government grants and stuff thrown in to keep jobs in the community. Nothing new here - it's been done from here to El Paso and back many times, with a significant stop in Pittsburgh.

As soon as they took over the new American management team tried to make huge changes overnight to run the plant identical to their American operations. Much of what they tried to do was specifically against their union labour contract. The new management's attitude was "who gives a crap?" There was a lot of bad blood developed before things simmered down. Classic case of arrogant new foreigners assuming that although they were operating in Canada they could ignore Canadian law. Not a good way to make a first impression.

When the "Great Depression" hit everywhere US Steel closed down the main plant and eventually laid off most of the other one they had bought in Nanticoke. At that point no one argued about it. The recession was global and what else was to be done?

What triggered this conflict was Obama and his "America First" laws. People noticed that US Steel was re-opening American plants but there was no sign of anything happening in Hamilton. What made it so obvious was that several customers of the Hamilton plant were begging for steel yet the Hamilton plant was kept closed. It was obvious that it didn't matter. Hamilton was not going to be put back on line until every American plant had re-opened first.

That was when the feds were contacted and Clemente, the Industry Ministry got ticked off. They had kicked in all that money in good faith, in the face of all of US Steel's promises. To be now put last on the list out of blatant protectionism was frankly, insulting! A global recession is one thing but ignoring contracts out of favouritism is quite another. The agreement US STeel had signed with the feds was taken out, dusted off and handed to the lawyers for court action.

So US Steel kinda brought it all on themselves. I am the farthest thing from a union supporter but I have witnessed this American arrogance at Canadian companies they have bought before.

The feds are not just playing legal games. They know full well the politics of the situation. US Steel pissed off its workforce as soon as it took over and then played favourites about which plants would be restarted. They handed a huge hero biscuit to Harper's government! A lot of people that ordinarily didn't vote Conservative in Hamilton are feeling more kindly these days.

US Steel was simply arrogant and stupid, in my opinion! It reminds me how years ago I attended a seminar on how to avoid having a union formed in your company. I've never forgotten how we all opened the binders given to us and in huge letters on the front page it said "DON'T ASK FOR IT!"

[bush_cheney2004]

This is all happening in my town, BC. It's all very simple. Stelco was on the block and US Steel made a bid. They won the deal, taking all manner of government grants and stuff thrown in to keep jobs in the community. Nothing new here - it's been done from here to El Paso and back many times, with a significant stop in Pittsburgh.

Correct...USS "won" the deal...and there is absolutely nothing new about the resulting consolidation, layoffs, or shutdown.

As soon as they took over the new American management team tried to make huge changes overnight to run the plant identical to their American operations. Much of what they tried to do was specifically against their union labour contract. The new management's attitude was "who gives a crap?" There was a lot of bad blood developed before things simmered down. Classic case of arrogant new foreigners assuming that although they were operating in Canada they could ignore Canadian law. Not a good way to make a first impression.

Ahem...the arrogant "foreigners" have a long history and experience with organized labor (i.e. United Steelworkers). This action has nothing to do with foreigners except the usual attraction of foreign capital in Canada.

When the "Great Depression" hit everywhere US Steel closed down the main plant and eventually laid off most of the other one they had bought in Nanticoke. At that point no one argued about it. The recession was global and what else was to be done?

The plant(s) would have been shuttered anyway without USS action.

What triggered this conflict was Obama and his "America First" laws. People noticed that US Steel was re-opening American plants but there was no sign of anything happening in Hamilton. What made it so obvious was that several customers of the Hamilton plant were begging for steel yet the Hamilton plant was kept closed. It was obvious that it didn't matter. Hamilton was not going to be put back on line until every American plant had re-opened first.

Agreed...Hamilton is definitely not in the "America First" plan. Maybe more Hamiltonians should have prayed for John McCain instead of Barack Obama.

That was when the feds were contacted and Clemente, the Industry Ministry got ticked off. They had kicked in all that money in good faith, in the face of all of US Steel's promises. To be now put last on the list out of blatant protectionism was frankly, insulting! A global recession is one thing but ignoring contracts out of favouritism is quite another. The agreement US STeel had signed with the feds was taken out, dusted off and handed to the lawyers for court action.

And we both know that USS figured all of this into their strategy beforehand. This is not the first dust up over Stelco since the 2007 acquisition. I also note the beneficiaries of the complete cash deal:

United States Steel Corporation (NYSE: X) and Stelco Inc., (TSX: STE) announced today that they have entered into a definitive agreement pursuant to which U. S. Steel will acquire Stelco for $38.50 (Canadian) in cash per share. Shareholders owning more than 76 percent of Stelco's outstanding shares, including Tricap Management Limited, Sunrise Partners Limited Partnership, Appaloosa Management L.P., and Rodney Mott, the CEO of Stelco, have entered into agreements with U. S. Steel irrevocably committing to support the transaction.

So US Steel kinda brought it all on themselves. I am the farthest thing from a union supporter but I have witnessed this American arrogance at Canadian companies they have bought before.

Agreed...just another day's work for the bean counters at USS. As for American arrogance, I am reminded of a child's fable that ends with a little girl being bitten by a poisonous snake and dying....she knew what it was before picking it up.

The feds are not just playing legal games. They know full well the politics of the situation. US Steel pissed off its workforce as soon as it took over and then played favourites about which plants would be restarted. They handed a huge hero biscuit to Harper's government! A lot of people that ordinarily didn't vote Conservative in Hamilton are feeling more kindly these days.

Looks like they have been voting NDP for quite some time....no surprise there. Unless MPs like Wayne Marston have joined the Cons.

US Steel was simply arrogant and stupid, in my opinion! It reminds me how years ago I attended a seminar on how to avoid having a union formed in your company. I've never forgotten how we all opened the binders given to us and in huge letters on the front page it said "DON'T ASK FOR IT!"

Yes...arrogant and stupid...like a fox.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

IF USS loses the court challenge, then the smart move is to the grab assets in the name of the Government of Canada. From what I have read this is not outside of the realm of possibilities. Roll it over into a crown corporation and open the place for business. Get it on its feet and then sell it off in the form of a brand new IPO, but this time the government should keep a nice fat share, of non-voting shares. Payback is a bitch.

[Wild Bill]

IF USS loses the court challenge, then the smart move is to the grab assets in the name of the Government of Canada. From what I have read this is not outside of the realm of possibilities. Roll it over into a crown corporation and open the place for business. Get it on its feet and then sell it off in the form of a brand new IPO, but this time the government should keep a nice fat share, of non-voting shares. Payback is a bitch.

Funny you should mention that! Down Welland way is a company called Lakeside Steel. They were formerly part of Stelco and wound up sold off and on their own a few years back.

Lakeside buys steel from Stelco and has been desperate for product. That was what got them to look behind the curtains to see where was the holdup. When they realized what was going on they announced to the feds and whoever was involved that if the courts were to decide that US Steel had broken their agreement and the feds wanted to dissolve the buyout then Lakeside was prepared to put in a bid for the steel mill themselves!

This would return the mill to Canadian hands and also restore the plant to full production almost immediately.

This must be very tempting for Harper's government. The upside is obvious. Where is the downside? It would send a strong message to foreign owners to keep their word. It might deter some unscrupulous buyers but so what? They tend not to act in a positive manner for Canada anyway! Nothing to lose there! Those companies with integrity will continue to operate and buy Canadian operations, since they had no intention of pulling any shenanigans anyway. They probably would find what happened to a company like US Steel rather amusing.

People from elsewhere often don't realize that the Hamilton demographic is hardly locked to the Liberals and NDP. It's true that they have enjoyed most of the time in office but Hamilton has elected Tories before and there often are some close races. Standing up to US Steel won't guarantee anything for Harper. After all, union membership in Hamilton has been plummeting for years as manufacturers have left town. The steelworkers were never as much of an NDP block as the NDP claimed but with fewer of them there's less potential for Harper anyway. Still, it certainly wouldn't hurt! There is a chance for some gains, at least.

There has been a slow realization in Hamilton these past few years that they have left themselves with literally no representation with the ruling party. By voting in all those Liberals and NDP MP's there's no one with any power to actually DO something for the area! The mayor has been reduced to sucking up to a Tory MP from down Niagara way, for lack of anyone else.

Politically, none of this speaks to rapid changes but the trends are real and slowly growing. Meanwhile, as far as US Steel is concerned, perhaps they've drawn attention to a weakness in our Foreign Investment Policies to the point where Harper might decide to use it as a political tool.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Wild Bill