What in the world is going on with the OPP?

[William Ashley]

Perhaps, but at least I know what I'm talking about. This is the stuff of basic Canadian civics; division of federal and provincial jurisdictions. Well, perhaps grade 9 studies are a bit too advanced for you.

I'm sorry but the RCMP is Federal - meaning all of Canada. A peace officer is a peace officer is a peace officer.

Also the Federal Government Constitutionally is responsible for insurrections. Clearly, you wern't paying attention in class.

Likewise were the militia not disbanded then it would likely fall under the auspice of the Lt. Govenor and militia - currently however it may be more so the RCMP if there are charges applicable, or a breach of the peace. Peace officers may take into custody anyone who is commiting or is at risk of commiting a breach of the peace.

(the peace officer thing is mindful that they only have immunities from prosecution in their own jurisdiction - which is why if it is federal not provncial land that the federal government and thus the RCMP should be involved not the OPP.

Tresspassing on Federal Land is different than TPA under the provincial act

provincial courts shouldn't even be ruling on the issue because only a federal court has mandate since the disolution of counties and districts in canada. (although techinically they still exist only they are vacant but superior court judges could techinically fill their spot as needed or the monarch - as superior court judges sit for the queen)

Edited January 5, 2010 by William Ashley

[Oleg Bach]

Heard a rumor a few years back that many years ago a certain Italian police officer involved in a drug bust consisting of a say 10 pounds only turned in eight..not mentioning any names but I do remember some big tough hooligan mentioning something like that...after all how many truely untainted cops or people for that matter exist? Not many I am sure.

[Bugs]

I know you probably didn't mean anything by it, but the careless and frequent blurting of that term "Queen of England" really irks me. Six Nations' land was granted to them by George III, King of the United Kingdom; the last Queen of England, Anne, died 77 years before the Haldimand Proclamation.

[c/e]

You're right, it wasn't the Queen ... just getting sloppy. It was the monarch, which is the point. No aboriginal right. Which means that verbal evidence does not trump property records, which is my point.

This thing is not a land claim. It's an armed insurrection that the OPP is too gutless to handle. They may have a point -- the natives have a couple of dozen ex-marines in their number. They probably outgun the OPP, and the OPP are all well-paid, well-padded guys who spend their days sitting in a cruiser. Right now, that idea that this is a armed insurrection is being denied, so all the explanations are bogus.

The background to this is that McGuinty carried on a persecution of Mike Harris, claiming he had ordered the OPP to kill natives. In fact, the OPP were shot at, and returned fire. One of the native kids was killed. McGuinty was guided by a goal of showing himself to be a better leader than Harris -- he tried to conciliate, and the natives spotted his weakness immediately.

So, we have the OPP helping the natives abuse their neighbours. One man, a contractor, was almost killed when the natives invaded the house he was building for his daughter's wedding. He has wit with 2x4s, and had his skull fractured. The OPP were outside, trying to prevent the man's son from getting in the house at the time! They contractor was almost killed, and the charges that were laid were for things like public mischief.

The legal key to this is that these particular natives are the children of immigrants just like the rest of us, and therefore they have to aboriginal right to the land. If they get to roll back land deals made over a century ago, so does everybody else. After all, the Charter of Rights says we are all equal, regardless of race ...

[Oleg Bach]

The charter does state that we are all equal and that is a fact that we are equal in the matter of not really having any real rights once you attempt to test them.

[charter.rights]

You're right, it wasn't the Queen ... just getting sloppy. It was the monarch, which is the point. No aboriginal right. Which means that verbal evidence does not trump property records, which is my point.

This thing is not a land claim. It's an armed insurrection that the OPP is too gutless to handle. They may have a point -- the natives have a couple of dozen ex-marines in their number. They probably outgun the OPP, and the OPP are all well-paid, well-padded guys who spend their days sitting in a cruiser. Right now, that idea that this is a armed insurrection is being denied, so all the explanations are bogus.

The background to this is that McGuinty carried on a persecution of Mike Harris, claiming he had ordered the OPP to kill natives. In fact, the OPP were shot at, and returned fire. One of the native kids was killed. McGuinty was guided by a goal of showing himself to be a better leader than Harris -- he tried to conciliate, and the natives spotted his weakness immediately.

So, we have the OPP helping the natives abuse their neighbours. One man, a contractor, was almost killed when the natives invaded the house he was building for his daughter's wedding. He has wit with 2x4s, and had his skull fractured. The OPP were outside, trying to prevent the man's son from getting in the house at the time! They contractor was almost killed, and the charges that were laid were for things like public mischief.

The legal key to this is that these particular natives are the children of immigrants just like the rest of us, and therefore they have to aboriginal right to the land. If they get to roll back land deals made over a century ago, so does everybody else. After all, the Charter of Rights says we are all equal, regardless of race ...

You are very much delusional. In 1763 all of southern Ontario was recognized as being Six Nations territory. Six Nations Confederacy has been in southern Ontario as far as 1000 years (and further when we link them to earlier peoples). So the British had no claim to southern Ontario or the Haldimand Tract.

That aside, the British made a proclamation that the 6 miles on either side of the Grand River could not be purchased by us, and only ceded to the Crown on the conditions laid out in the Royal Proclamation 1763, and reinforced in the txt of the Haldimand Proclamation 1784. The Plank Road claim does not meet the tests provided in the Chippewas of Sarnia v. Canada, and according to the various memorandums, letters and objections Six Nations had no intent in 1824 to sell the Plank Road. All of this has been ladi before the court and in negotiations. This land claim goes back to 1996 when it was first filed with the Court.

You obviously can't read let alone understand the Charter of Rights and Freedoms:

25. The guarantee in this Charter of certain rights and freedoms shall not be construed so as to abrogate or derogate from any aboriginal, treaty or other rights or freedoms that pertain to the aboriginal peoples of Canada including

(a ) any rights or freedoms that have been recognized by the Royal Proclamation of October 7, 1763; and

(b ) any rights or freedoms that may be acquired by the aboriginal peoples of Canada by way of land claims settlement.(15)

Aboriginal rights precede and supersede all other rights...."shall not be construed so as to abrogate or derogate from any aboriginal, treaty or other rights..."

35. (1) The existing aboriginal and treaty rights of the aboriginal peoples of Canada are hereby recognized and affirmed.

Not only does Six Nations have a claim for Caledonia but for Brantford and many more areas that have never been surrendered. In southern Ontario we are all living on borrowed land.

Oleg, the Charter exemption for aboriginal rights stems from the Royal Proclamation 1763:

"And whereas it is just and reasonable, and essential to our Interest, and the Security of our Colonies, that the several Nations or Tribes of Indians with whom We are connected, and who live under our Protection, should not be molested or disturbed in the Possession of such Parts of Our Dominions and Territories as, not having been ceded to or purchased by Us, are reserved to them."

This of course not only includes the freedom from taxation, but in restricting laws that may be imposed on them. That free reign extends over all "Indian Lands" presented in the Royal Proclamation and includes Six Nations Territory of southern Ontario.

The Mitchell Map 1757 (just below the Ottawa River)

"By the several conquests here mentioned, the territories of the Six Nations extend to the limits laid down; which they have been in possession of about 100 years."

And in south western Ontario:

"Antient Huron Conquered and expelled by the Iroquois Ann. 1650 ever since which time they have been in pofsef'n of this country"

It is absolutely clear that in 1763 the British concurred that southern Ontario was Six Nations Territory and there has never been a surrender since.

Bugs is just leaking gray matter and none of her assertions have an inkling of truth.

Of course the OPP are bound to enforce "The Law" and the supreme law of Canada starts and ends with the Charter. Aboriginal people have an exemption that make every case something our law enforcement and courts must read into carefully.

As far as injunctions go anyone is free to ignore and injunction without action by the police. They only become enforceable when the courts hold protesters in contempt. IN the DCE case contempt charges could not be enforced because the injunction issued by Justice David Marshall was flawed. He had attempted to issue Jan Doe and John Doe injunctions that discriminated against Six Nations people simply by selection by race. It was quickly struck down on appeal.

[Oleg Bach]

Canadian Indians are intergenerational prisoners of war. Some get by in captivity and others do not take well to capitivity and slowly die. Talk all you want about reserves that are nothing more than prison camps..what are they keeping in reserve? What are the governmentals pre-serving? The policy in Canada as far as natives was one that is a slow and incrimental genocide. If it was not genocide then we would have seen evidence of the perservation of these people. No such evidence has reared it's head in the last 200 years. No wonder the strongest of the tribes are in conflict and contest with the white authorities...It's a fight for survival - by hook or by crook.

[charter.rights]

Canadian Indians are intergenerational prisoners of war. Some get by in captivity and others do not take well to capitivity and slowly die. Talk all you want about reserves that are nothing more than prison camps..what are they keeping in reserve? What are the governmentals pre-serving? The policy in Canada as far as natives was one that is a slow and incrimental genocide. If it was not genocide then we would have seen evidence of the perservation of these people. No such evidence has reared it's head in the last 200 years. No wonder the strongest of the tribes are in conflict and contest with the white authorities...It's a fight for survival - by hook or by crook.

Reserves are neither prison camps or segregation units. They are territories for people who protect their last haven of self-rule and autonomy. The problem is that the governments have continued on with genocidal policies whereby they deliberately underfund band governments and agencies to try to force people off their land - usually because some big corporation wants the resources.

The lands claims process is an attempt to gain back control over the land giving them larger land bases in which economic development and resource development can flourish (in a traditional way). While the goal of lands claims is to see the return of the land, often times a cash settlement, or a land exchange is a better case. However, in order to for First Nations to become self sufficient we need to strengthen them. Weakening them only leads to further problems and we have in the past had a penchant for throwing all kinds of money at problems to no avail.

I believe we can be well served in all levels of government by adopting many of their principles. You see their government structures in many cases have survived 1000 years - in the face of direct assaults, intimidation, assimilation and genocide, and in the case of Six Nations Confederacy it is alive and well. There is no doubt in my mind however (failing a revolution) that when First Nations can find and solve their problems, we will be able to learn from their examples. First Nations are microcosms of the greater Canadian society and what ails them afflicts us tenfold.

Oh and BTW. They are not "Canadian Indians" They are First Nations outside of the Canadian framework.

[Shwa]

And Caledonia is just the tip of the iceburg:

From First Nations vs. miners editorial in the Toronto Star:

The new law strives to balance divergent yet vital interests – First Nations' rights and the needs of mining companies, environmental protection, and economic development in the north. It mandates consultation with native communities at the very beginning and throughout the process. If things still go awry, it provides a dispute resolution process for aboriginal-related mining issues.

[Oleg Bach]

Charter Rights is spot on when it comes to describing the defects in policy regarding the natural inhabitants of our nation. Underfunding is like giving you some rope..just enough to hang yourself but not enough to sling together a life raft in order to float to safety. From my experience and I admit I have had varied ones.. The welfare system is exactly the same type of policy..it isolates and demobilizes the person using the supposed safety net. You have no mobilty rights or rights to privacy that is essential to an individual to focus on improvement.

The OPP represent much like the RCMP, a few wanna be elitists and law makers. You must remember that law makers have no power with out law enforcement. In effect the OPP are a standing army and function as such when called upon by their masters.

[Argus]

And Caledonia is just the tip of the iceburg:

From First Nations vs. miners editorial in the Toronto Star:

I've read opinions that this law will put an end to all future mining develpments in Ontario. Every inch of the province is claimed by at least three or four different "nations", none of whom can agree on whose claim should get priority, and it's been said mining development companies won't waste their time on a long, drawn out, cumbersome and expensive "consultation" process when they can mine anywhere on earth a lot easier.

Dalton McGuinty, having already destroyed Ontario's manufacturing sector, is intent on destroying the mining sector, as well. Next comes forestry. Then his job will be complete, and he can retire to his golden nest egg amidst the ruins of what used to be the central economic engine of Canada.

[Oleg Bach]

YOU might be destroying the mining sector. From what I know huge tracks of company land have been sold to China. Don't blame the the natives for something that the whites have been doing for the last decade or so. Do you think selling out Canada to China and others is not destructive? Look at the prices of these sales - dirt cheap! Some chump sells off Canadas future for one tenth of what it is worth - pockets the cash and goes on his merry way. I could never understand for instance when Ontario Hydro - an infrastructure that was built with Canadian tax dollars that was owned in turth by the people of Ontairo - then it is sold - and WE did not get the money..why is it that we pay for something and someone else steals it legally?

[Bugs]

Wrong. The Plank Road claim was made in 1996 and continues in a court case that was held in abeyance while negotiation took place. Just in late fall last year, the Six Nations Council refiled the court case because negotiations have been purposely stalled by the federal government.

Caledonia and the DCE lands are totally within the Plank Road lease that is under dispute. As well Six Nations Band Council had repeatedly file notices of objection with the Haldimand County prior to the first construction equipment moving in and their complaints were ignored.

All of southern Ontario is Six Nations Territory that was certified by the Royal Proclamation 1763. The Haldimand Proclamation 1784 in which occupied 6 miles each side of the Grand River from its source to its mouth was not a land grand since the Crown had no authority over Six Nations land. Rather it was a guarantee under the the Silver Covenant Chain 1710 and the Royal Proclamation to prohibit settlers from encroaching upon their land.

The Mitchell Map 1757 outlines that the boundaries of Six Nations extend to the north by the Ottawa River above Nippissing to the junction of Lakes Huron and Michigan and south into New York and Pennsylvania. In 1700 Six Nations territory also included the Ohio, Michigan peninsula Indianna, Kentucky and bits and pieces of other territories that were surrender to Great Britain in the Nanfan Treaty 1701. However, the Nanfan Treaty also recognized that all of the southern Ontario lands remained in Six Nations hands.

So the problem for the Crown beyond the Haldimand tract requires them to prove that parts of southern Ontario were surrendered by Six Nations in accordance with the procedures set out in the Royal Proclamation 1763. I have scoured the records and no reord exists.

Southern Ontario still belongs under the jurisdiction of the Six Nation Confederacy.

The Six Nations are the children of immigrants to Canada, just like the rest of us. They got a grant, and they sold it. Joseph Brant, himself, sold a big parcel to German farmers, which became Kitchener. Prices were about $1 an acre. The land was held in fee simple until 1840, when the remaining land was consolidated into a reservation. This became the model for other native groups, and the reservation was was created to keep their remaining assets safe from commercial sharpies. Six Nations natives have the same rights to overturn to a sale as anyone else. They are not a first nation. They are not aboriginals in this part of the world, except as you and I are.

Our problem is we have racist courts, and judges with lots of education, but no understanding. No historical understanding, no sociological understanding, just an understianding of which way the wind blows.

[Bugs]

Wrong. The Plank Road claim was made in 1996 and continues in a court case that was held in abeyance while negotiation took place. Just in late fall last year, the Six Nations Council refiled the court case because negotiations have been purposely stalled by the federal government.

Caledonia and the DCE lands are totally within the Plank Road lease that is under dispute. As well Six Nations Band Council had repeatedly file notices of objection with the Haldimand County prior to the first construction equipment moving in and their complaints were ignored.

All of southern Ontario is Six Nations Territory that was certified by the Royal Proclamation 1763. The Haldimand Proclamation 1784 in which occupied 6 miles each side of the Grand River from its source to its mouth was not a land grand since the Crown had no authority over Six Nations land. Rather it was a guarantee under the the Silver Covenant Chain 1710 and the Royal Proclamation to prohibit settlers from encroaching upon their land.

The Mitchell Map 1757 outlines that the boundaries of Six Nations extend to the north by the Ottawa River above Nippissing to the junction of Lakes Huron and Michigan and south into New York and Pennsylvania. In 1700 Six Nations territory also included the Ohio, Michigan peninsula Indianna, Kentucky and bits and pieces of other territories that were surrender to Great Britain in the Nanfan Treaty 1701. However, the Nanfan Treaty also recognized that all of the southern Ontario lands remained in Six Nations hands.

So the problem for the Crown beyond the Haldimand tract requires them to prove that parts of southern Ontario were surrendered by Six Nations in accordance with the procedures set out in the Royal Proclamation 1763. I have scoured the records and no reord exists.

Southern Ontario still belongs under the jurisdiction of the Six Nation Confederacy.

This guy is simply writing a fiction. What has the Mitchell Map got to do with anything? The promise was made to the Six Nation of a land grant in Canada after the American Revolution, in the 1790ies -- The Mitchell Map is one year after the end of the Seven Years War! The aboriginal natives in Southern Ontario were (other that around Lake Erie and the Niagara Peninsula) were Hurons, who were wiped out by disease.

The Six Nations are the children of immigrants to Canada, just like the rest of us. They got a grant, and they sold it. Joseph Brant, himself, sold a big parcel to German farmers, which became Kitchener. Prices were about $1 an acre. The land was held in fee simple until 1840, when the remaining land was consolidated into a reservation. This became the model for other native groups, and the reservation was was created to keep their remaining assets safe from commercial sharpies. Six Nations natives have the same rights to overturn a sale as anyone else. They are not a first nation. They are not aboriginals in this part of the world, except as you and I are. They have no aboriginal right to the land. That's for the guys the Six Nations used to push around, back when the Mohawks were cannibals.

Our problem is we have racist courts, and judges with lots of education, but no historical understanding, no sociological understanding, just an understianding of which way the wind blows.

[Bugs]

Canadian Indians are intergenerational prisoners of war. Some get by in captivity and others do not take well to capitivity and slowly die. Talk all you want about reserves that are nothing more than prison camps..what are they keeping in reserve? What are the governmentals pre-serving? The policy in Canada as far as natives was one that is a slow and incrimental genocide. If it was not genocide then we would have seen evidence of the perservation of these people. No such evidence has reared it's head in the last 200 years. No wonder the strongest of the tribes are in conflict and contest with the white authorities...It's a fight for survival - by hook or by crook.

As proof of Oleg's assertion, I offer this ...

NO ACTION ON FANTINO

TORONTO -- Despite an Ontario Superior Court justice ruling last week that Ontario's top police officer must face allegations he illegally influenced municipal officials, the Ministry of the Attorney General says no further action has yet been taken. In a decision released last Thursday, a Superior Court justice ruled OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino must face allegations by Gary McHale McHale, who led rallies to protest what he has called two-tier justice in the policing of an aboriginal land occupation in Caledonia, claims Fantino influenced municipal officials when he sent an e-mail allegedly telling the mayor and councillors not to attend McHale's rallies. A justice of the peace who heard McHale's complaint refused to issue a summons for Fantino. That ruling was overturned in Superior Court but no further action has been taken.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/canada/2010/01/06/12360921-sun.html

[Shwa]

They are not a first nation.

From INAC:

First Nation: A term that came into common usage in the 1970s to replace the word “Indian,” which some people found offensive. Although the term First Nation is widely used, no legal definition of it exists. Among its uses, the term “First Nations peoples” refers to the Indian peoples in Canada, both Status and non-Status. Some Indian peoples have also adopted the term “First Nation” to replace the word “band” in the name of their community.

So... yes they are.

They are not aboriginals in this part of the world...

From INAC

Indian: Indian peoples are one of three groups of people recognized as Aboriginal in the Constitution Act, 1982. It specifies that Aboriginal people in Canada consist of Indians, Inuit and Métis. Indians in Canada are often referred to as: Status Indians, non-Status Indians and Treaty Indians.

So... yes they are.

They have no aboriginal right to the land.

From INAC:

land claims: In 1973, the federal government recognized two broad classes of claims — comprehensive and specific. <snip> Specific claims deal with specific grievances that First Nations may have regarding the fulfilment of treaties. Specific claims also cover grievances relating to the administration of First Nations lands and assets under the Indian Act.

So...yes they do.

The aboriginal natives in Southern Ontario were (other that around Lake Erie and the Niagara Peninsula) were Hurons, who were wiped out by disease.

Nope. Nope. And nope.

...the Mohawks were cannibals.

Our problem is we have racist courts, and judges with lots of education, but no historical understanding, no sociological understanding, just an understianding of which way the wind blows.

I am thinking the only thing that "blows" is your feeb attempt to troll. You don't even know the basic historical or sociological situation in Six Nations. Having determined that, then this quote should appear to prove that you don't even know the basic legal situation with respect to Six Nations claims:

What has the Mitchell Map got to do with anything?

C.R explained it pretty clearly in numerous posts already. If you want to challenge the poster then at least make a decent attempt to be factual instead of braying on like some wounded doofus.

[Oleg Bach]

From INAC:

So... yes they are.

From INAC

So... yes they are.

From INAC:

So...yes they do.

Nope. Nope. And nope.

I am thinking the only thing that "blows" is your feeb attempt to troll. You don't even know the basic historical or sociological situation in Six Nations. Having determined that, then this quote should appear to prove that you don't even know the basic legal situation with respect to Six Nations claims:

C.R explained it pretty clearly in numerous posts already. If you want to challenge the poster then at least make a decent attempt to be factual instead of braying on like some wounded doofus.

Bury My Heart At Wounded Doofus.

[Argus]

Fantino to be charged today.

It was Mr. McHale who laid a private information, as it's called, against Mr. Fantino, alleging that in an April 7, 2007, e-mail to Caledonia Mayor Marie Trainer and her councillors, he attempted to influence or influenced the council.

In August last year, a Hamilton justice of the peace refused to proceed with the charge, though he found that Mr. Fantino indeed had made a threat. But on Dec. 31 Mr. Justice David Crane of the Ontario Superior Court overturned the JP's decision and ordered him to "issue process" - basically, to get on with it and issue a formal information against the Commissioner.

That, Ontario Attorney-General spokesman Brendan Crawley said last night, will happen in the lower court today.

Globe and Mail

[Argus]

The McGuinty government has decided against appointing a neutral lawyer to consider the prosecution of Julian Fantino, despite the possibility their own boy's predictable dismissal of charges (wait for it) will inevitably lead to further judicial review.

So the same department which opposed having him charged in the first place has now appointed one of its own to decide if the charge should be dropped. Any gueses on what he'll decide?

While the ministry has "absolute discretion" as to how to proceed with the case, it should retain a lawyer from outside the province to prosecute, Mr. Stribopoulos said. Otherwise, if the provincial Crown decides to drop the charge, "it would be feeding the very unfortunate impression that Mr. Fantino received special dispensation," said the criminal law professor.

Crown to be appointed to prosecute Fantino

[Shwa]

Fantino is a tough guy to pin down and likely worth more as an ally than an enemy. And he is no stranger to controversy and has weathered worse:

Julian Fantino

[Mr.Canada]

Reserves are neither prison camps or segregation units. They are territories for people who protect their last haven of self-rule and autonomy. The problem is that the governments have continued on with genocidal policies whereby they deliberately underfund band governments and agencies to try to force people off their land - usually because some big corporation wants the resources.

The lands claims process is an attempt to gain back control over the land giving them larger land bases in which economic development and resource development can flourish (in a traditional way). While the goal of lands claims is to see the return of the land, often times a cash settlement, or a land exchange is a better case. However, in order to for First Nations to become self sufficient we need to strengthen them. Weakening them only leads to further problems and we have in the past had a penchant for throwing all kinds of money at problems to no avail.

I believe we can be well served in all levels of government by adopting many of their principles. You see their government structures in many cases have survived 1000 years - in the face of direct assaults, intimidation, assimilation and genocide, and in the case of Six Nations Confederacy it is alive and well. There is no doubt in my mind however (failing a revolution) that when First Nations can find and solve their problems, we will be able to learn from their examples. First Nations are microcosms of the greater Canadian society and what ails them afflicts us tenfold.

Oh and BTW. They are not "Canadian Indians" They are First Nations outside of the Canadian framework.

Ok so you don't want the government or anyone interupting hjow your precious reserves are run or how the money is spent yet you take money from tax payers who ae from every race except natives. Sorry but I have a right to see how my tax dollars are spent or wasted which is more likely the case with the native money managers on the reserves.

They've been getting billions of dollars fro years just like the African countries but are seemingly unable to spend the money properly so they need supervision.

Furthermore if the native band leaders do nothing to stop the occupations of Canadian and privately held lands the funds should stop with only the bare minimum being provided. If they cannot behave themselves these natives need to be penalized. Take away their money until they behave themselves then they'll get it back. See how quickly they stop illegally occupying our lands and start behaving themselves.

Occupation = no funding. The people of the bands who are breaking the laws will turn on their "chiefs" and blame them for the lack of money and demand that they stop the illegal occupation.

They need to take responsibility for their actions and they need to know that their actions have consequences. The rest of Canada has suffered enough at the hands of the natives. It's time we took back control of our own country and quieted the trouble makers.

[charter.rights]

Ok so you don't want the government or anyone interupting hjow your precious reserves are run or how the money is spent yet you take money from tax payers who ae from every race except natives. Sorry but I have a right to see how my tax dollars are spent or wasted which is more likely the case with the native money managers on the reserves.

As we have seen with all the INAC payments and tax breaks, natives are still not even close to what they are owed collectively. Lands and trusts have gone missing at the hands of our government agents and as Native people begin to settle we'll find that we owe a lot more than we pay.

Taxes are not yours. They are collected at the source before you are paid and from the minute you earn money, the government's money is taken from the top. Even if you self-pay the government obligates to the tax before you get to spend yours.

They've been getting billions of dollars fro years just like the African countries but are seemingly unable to spend the money properly so they need supervision.

When public services are underfunded on reserve it isn't hard to imagine that money will be hard to account for. But in fact Native Bands do spend their money properly according to the last couple of reports issued by the Auditor General Sheila Fraser. The problem in accounting lies at INAC where Band reports sit on bureaucrats' desks for months (even years) without review.

Furthermore if the native band leaders do nothing to stop the occupations of Canadian and privately held lands the funds should stop with only the bare minimum being provided.

I see you are still ignorant and uneducated where it concerns this topic. There is no such thing as "privately held lands" in Canada. There are deeds, which offer a sort of use permit, but all all land deeded to Canadians is subject to the whim and will of government. Native land is not the same since they have rights over land that exceed ours and is constitutionally protected. Pretty much all land in Canada is subject to those rights. You do believe in the law don't you? Those rights represent the Supreme law in Canada. So get over it.

If they cannot behave themselves these natives need to be penalized. Take away their money until they behave themselves then they'll get it back. See how quickly they stop illegally occupying our lands and start behaving themselves.

Protest is the highest form of democracy. But that is not the point. Native people have a legal right that is slowly being interpreted by the courts, to prevent use of lands under claim, or to which a right of use is claimed. In fact the Royal Proclamation 1763 - a Constitutional edict - recognizes that First Nations have a right over most of Canada and if they choose through proprietary estopple to stop up land and prevent development, they are totally and legally within your rights. Your delusion that makes you think it is illegal is really getting boring and stupid. I guess stupid is as stupid says....

Occupation = no funding. The people of the bands who are breaking the laws will turn on their "chiefs" and blame them for the lack of money and demand that they stop the illegal occupation.

The law doesn't work that way and they are not connected....this is just another example of your useless and stupid comments.

They need to take responsibility for their actions and they need to know that their actions have consequences. The rest of Canada has suffered enough at the hands of the natives. It's time we took back control of our own country and quieted the trouble makers.

Actually they are not only taking responsibility for their actions, but for their rights as well. They are to be admired for being willing to stand and face armed police and angry non-native protesters and still hold their dignity. If only our fellow Canadians were so brave. But alas only wimpy fat boys think waving a flag is being responsible. That is childish...but I do understand where you would get that from....

[postmaster.general]

... the opp are a disgrace, not to mention ontario's attorney general chris bentley ...

... the ontario attorney general announced the other day he won't compensate for bogus convictions that in one case sent an innocent man to jail for 8 years. why no cash for kidnapping and unlawful confinement? if an innocent person is incarcerated there's no amount of money that can compensate for that kind of injustice. it's like getting mowed down by a car with a bunch of government monkeys at the wheel and then being forced to live in a straightjacket in a cage. how much did maher arar get for getting sent to syria by the americans in an actual war? oh not much -- only ten million dollars! -- from the canadian government, AND HE WASN'T EVEN JAILED OR FALSELY CONVICTED IN CANADA!!!

... it's sickening to see canadian government officials doing the nazi salute in unison coast to coast ...

SOME LIKE IT BRUTAL

[Popeye]

This thread isn't about INAC or Native rights/self governance. It's about the OPP.

postmaster.general, the OPP are NOT a disgrace. You are more than welcome to despise them, but at the end of the day and ounce of respect goes a long way.

Simple really. When you may need the OPP for any reason, they will be there for you despite your obvious dislike of them. They WILL treat you with indifference whether you choose to believe that or not.

[Wild Bill]

This thread isn't about INAC or Native rights/self governance. It's about the OPP.

postmaster.general, the OPP are NOT a disgrace. You are more than welcome to despise them, but at the end of the day and ounce of respect goes a long way.

Simple really. When you may need the OPP for any reason, they will be there for you despite your obvious dislike of them. They WILL treat you with indifference whether you choose to believe that or not.

But they weren't there for the citizens of Caledonia, particularly those who spent 4 years "behind the lines" and who just had their house bought out to end their lawsuit against McGuinty's government and hush it up!

That's the point!

[postmaster.general]

This thread isn't about INAC or Native rights/self governance. It's about the OPP.

postmaster.general, the OPP are NOT a disgrace. You are more than welcome to despise them, but at the end of the day and ounce of respect goes a long way.

Simple really. When you may need the OPP for any reason, they will be there for you despite your obvious dislike of them. They WILL treat you with indifference whether you choose to believe that or not.

... the canadian police violate our basic rights and spit on us every day. instead of acting as neutral enforcers of law and order they take the immoral dark side against what is good, against what is right ...

... the government of canada is sacked ...

SOME LIKE IT BRUTAL