Canadian politicians - the culture killer

[cybercoma]

That's a different topic altogether from "Canadian politicians - the culture killer". Someone should start a thread for that particular discussion, or dig up one of the countless ones that undoubtedly exist.

[bjre]

If you get the shot the chances of getting H1N1 is next to nothing and the chances of dying is even less. Same for seasonal flu and pretty much every other influenza out there. Now virus's constantly evolve that much is obvious which is why medicine evolves to treat it, TCM doesn't change at all so how can it be expected to combat deseases that didn't exsist when it was created?

That is due to philosophy difference.

Lots of western medical theory is based on methods with mechanism and micro-foundation. If they find some virus with a microscope, then use anti-virus drug, if they find some bacteria, and use anti bacteria drug. Use different drug to kill different bacteria. But man can not survive without bacteria. when drug kill bad bacteria, it kills lots of useful bacteria in body too. That causes a lot of other problems. That is western medical approach.

TCM is different, it often use medication to stimulus and wake up man's self-healing power. That is why it can use a 5000 year old medication to cure disease caused by new virus. Some treatment even don't use any medication like acupuncture.

[Guest TrueMetis]

That is due to philosophy difference.

Lots of western medical theory is based on methods with mechanism and micro-foundation. If they find some virus with a microscope, then use anti-virus drug, if they find some bacteria, and use anti bacteria drug. Use different drug to kill different bacteria. But man can not survive without bacteria. when drug kill bad bacteria, it kills lots of useful bacteria in body too. That causes a lot of other problems. That is western medical approach.

TCM is different, it often use medication to stimulus and wake up man's self-healing power. That is why it can use a 5000 year old medication to cure disease caused by new virus. Some treatment even don't use any medication like acupuncture.

Here is the thing there is NO PROOF TCM works. It is impossible that 5000 year old medicine that does not change would be able to cure deseases that only evolved within the last hundred years. You have yet to link me to a scientific study that it works so put up or shut up.

While because of real medicine we live twice as long as we used to. As for anti-bacterial drugs that kill good bacteria some do some don't, they try to use specific anit-biotics ones that target only specific bacteria. They have found some anti-biotics that will kill only bacteria in a specfic genus, the substance that does this was found in certain bacteria so it will evovle so it will hopefully stay effective even as the bacteria we are trying to kill evolve.

It has nothing to do with philosophy because philosophy is useless in science.

[bjre]

Here is the thing there is NO PROOF TCM works. It is impossible that 5000 year old medicine that does not change would be able to cure deseases that only evolved within the last hundred years. You have yet to link me to a scientific study that it works so put up or shut up.

While because of real medicine we live twice as long as we used to. As for anti-bacterial drugs that kill good bacteria some do some don't, they try to use specific anit-biotics ones that target only specific bacteria. They have found some anti-biotics that will kill only bacteria in a specfic genus, the substance that does this was found in certain bacteria so it will evovle so it will hopefully stay effective even as the bacteria we are trying to kill evolve.

It has been proved lots of people die of western chemical drugs.

It has been proved lots of people cured with TCM.

Modern science is far away from being able to explain everything of human body.

It has nothing to do with philosophy because philosophy is useless in science.

Is Isaac Newton's work "The Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy" useless in science?

Edited December 9, 2009 by bjre

[Guest TrueMetis]

It has been proved lots of people die of western chemical drugs.

And even more would die without it.

It has been proved lots of people cured with TCM.

No it hasn't.

Modern science is far away from being able to explain everything of human body.

Anything that claims to now everything about anything is obviously false. No one has every made the claim that medical science knows everything about the human body.

Is Isaac Newton's work "The Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy" useless in science?

No but it had more to do with math and little about philosophy.

Philophy by definition is about metaphysics, logic, ethics, epistemology, and aesthetics. None of these things have anything to do with science.

Edited December 9, 2009 by TrueMetis

[bjre]

No but it had more to do with math and little about philosophy.

Philophy by definition is about metaphysics, logic, ethics, epistemology, and aesthetics. None of these things have anything to do with science.

Epistemology has nothing to do with science?

How about "Philosophy of mind" and "Philosophy of science"?

[M.Dancer]

Epistemology has nothing to do with science?

How about "Philosophy of mind" and "Philosophy of science"?

Ever hear of the Science of Philosophy?

Exactly...

[bjre]

Ever hear of the Science of Philosophy?

Exactly...

I have no idea what that is about.

[M.Dancer]

I have no idea what that is about.

It's about showing that Philosophy is not science...

...and neither is Chinese Traditional Quackery

[bjre]

It's about showing that Philosophy is not science...

It is created by westerner. Try to use a liar's theory can not prove anything.

...and neither is Chinese Traditional Quackery

There are too many Canadian Quackery in hospitals that cause so many preventable deaths each year.

Edited December 10, 2009 by bjre

[M.Dancer]

It is created by westerner. Try to use a liar's theory can not prove anything.

There are too many Canadian Quackery in hospitals that cause so many preventable deaths each year.

And no doubt in China the number who die ingesting snake gall bladders instead of seeing a doctor makes the number who die in Canada pale in comparison. You won't see any study in China about this though ....and you know exactly why.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Epistemology has nothing to do with science?

How about "Philosophy of mind" and "Philosophy of science"?

No it has nothing to do with science. If it is observable and testable it can be understood and science only deals with what is observable and testable.

[bjre]

No it has nothing to do with science. If it is observable and testable it can be understood and science only deals with what is observable and testable.

"Since philosophy is at least implicitly at the core of every decision we make or position we take, it is obvious that correct philosophy is a necessity for scientific inquiry to take place."

[Jerry J. Fortin]

"Since philosophy is at least implicitly at the core of every decision we make or position we take, it is obvious that correct philosophy is a necessity for scientific inquiry to take place."

I think not. Correct is a subjective word defined by each culture to its own ends. Look at the competition between communism and capitalism.

[bjre]

I think not. Correct is a subjective word defined by each culture to its own ends. Look at the competition between communism and capitalism.

Both communism and capitalism are western culture. TCM has nothing to do with each of that.

[Guest TrueMetis]

"Since philosophy is at least implicitly at the core of every decision we make or position we take, it is obvious that correct philosophy is a necessity for scientific inquiry to take place."

Don't know who said that but they weren't very smart.

[M.Dancer]

Don't know who said that but they weren't very smart.

It comes from a site called think quest and it refers to metaphysical philosophy.....which is as close to science as traditional chinese quackery comes...

[bjre]

It comes from a site called think quest and it refers to metaphysical philosophy.....which is as close to science as traditional chinese quackery comes...

Poor Dancer, has been cheated by too many quackery's that can not imagine anything other than quackery. Are you still ok?

Edited December 10, 2009 by bjre

[bjre]

http://news.mibba.com/World/3234/Hitlers-Obsession-With-Mothers-Death-Led-To-The-Holocaust

A book published in Germany today sheds new light on the mind of Adolf Hitler. According to the book “November 9: How World War One Led To The Holocaust” written by the German author, Joachim Riecker, the cause of the Holocaust was Hitler’s “obsession with his mother's death after her treatment for cancer by a Jewish doctor”.

As it states, the Nazi leader believed that Doctor Eduard Bloch poisoned his mother and the anger, anguish and resentment led to the genocide with the death toll that spawns between 11 million and 17 million people.

“Her painful death was a key moment in his development”, said the author.

Hitler was 18 at the time of his mother’s death, who died from idoform poisoning. Idoform treatment was a common practice back then, used to fight breast cancer.

Idoform is a western chemical medicine.

[Guest TrueMetis]

http://news.mibba.com/World/3234/Hitlers-Obsession-With-Mothers-Death-Led-To-The-Holocaust

Idoform is a western chemical medicine.

TCM poisons two people in 2008, They lived only becuase of western medicine. It also shows how crappy TCM is becuase it is not standardized. Idoform is also not used anymore, another case of real medicine changing whole TCM stays the same, and still poisons people.

So lets recap just last year TCM nearly killed two people. While you are somehow trying to blame western medicine for the holocaust and WW2. You do know that someone like Hitler doesn't become as insane as he was from one event right? This is generally the type of thing people are born with and it is made worse by multiple events. He almost died during WW1 maybe that had something to do with it.

And you apparently still don't understand that correlation does not imply causation.

[bjre]

TCM poisons two people in 2008, They lived only becuase of western medicine. It also shows how crappy TCM is becuase it is not standardized. Idoform is also not used anymore, another case of real medicine changing whole TCM stays the same, and still poisons people.

So lets recap just last year TCM nearly killed two people. While you are somehow trying to blame western medicine for the holocaust and WW2. You do know that someone like Hitler doesn't become as insane as he was from one event right? This is generally the type of thing people are born with and it is made worse by multiple events. He almost died during WW1 maybe that had something to do with it.

And you apparently still don't understand that correlation does not imply causation.

It has been show in the TCM text book clearly that Datura metel L. is toxic. The two cases in the link you used stated very clearly they did not asked for a TCM doctor. And obviously, it is not clear if Datura metel L. is correct for their cases and the quantity they used is right or not, or should it used with other medication together.

Case 1: Her mother believed that Rhododendron molle (Naoyanghua, 闹羊花) could cure schizophrenia. She visited various Chinese medicinal halls in Singapore looking for this herb. Datura metel L. (Yangjinghua, 洋金花) in ertain TCM circles is also known as “Naoyanghua” and the patient’s mother was sold 20 g of Datura metel L. She was told by the medicinal hall which sold her the herb, that it was “Naoyanghua”. The patient’s mother boiled half the amount of herbs she had bought and asked the patient to drink the brew.

Case 2: He had bought some herb during that trip. On the day of presentation, he had brewed the herb and drank it.

If you catch a fever, do you think you won't get any trouble if you take a whole bottle of Tylenol once without harm to yourself?

[Guest TrueMetis]

It has been show in the TCM text book clearly that Datura metel L. is toxic. The two cases in the link you used stated very clearly they did not asked for a TCM doctor. And obviously, it is not clear if Datura metel L. is correct for their cases and the quantity they used is right or not, or should it used with other medication together.

If you catch a fever, do you think you won't get any trouble if you take a whole bottle of Tylenol once without harm to yourself?

Datura metel L. is a useful herb when used appropriately.

With its anticholinergic properties, it makes

pharmacological sense that TCM practitioners have been

using it to treat asthma and chronic bronchitis. However,

its recommended oral dosage in TCM practice is only

about 0.3–0.5 g;(5) because the dose used for therapy is so

small, the risk of an overdose, and the occurrence toxicity,

is low. Although Datura metel L. is usually known as

Yangjinghua, it is also called Naoyanghua in certain parts

of China, despite the latter term being the common name

for Rhododendron molle. As a consequence, one of these

herbs is sometimes mistaken for the other.(3,4) This explains

why the Chinese medicinal hall sold the wrong herb to the

mother of the Case 1 patient.

Had something like this happened in Canada the guy who sold them would be arrested. This is what happens when you don't have standardization.

Your Tylenol comparison is weak because it says on the bottle to only take a certain amount, and can only be sold in pharmacies. Poisonous substances should not be sold by non-qualified personnel.

[bjre]

Had something like this happened in Canada the guy who sold them would be arrested. This is what happens when you don't have standardization.

Standardization means money, means inconvenience, means dominate market.

You can always find extreme cases, there are very few people who will try to buy medication without see a doctor when they are not clear what to do. For those several cases and take away all people's freedom to access alternative health solution is not correct way. After you illegalize the herb from the shop, someone still can follow some information to get it in wild mountains. If they don't know the toxic feature and use it to themselves, it can still harmful to them. On the other hand, for those who know how to use it, illegal those herb may cause more life lost, especially in case one need to wait 10 hours in emergency and there is no alternative.

The correct way is education, to make people to be able to make smart decision themselves, instead of tread them like baby to take toys away from them. Just like Tylenol can cause trouble, you can still obtain it, and electricity can be harmful to you, and you still want to use it in your home.

Your Tylenol comparison is weak because it says on the bottle to only take a certain amount, and can only be sold in pharmacies. Poisonous substances should not be sold by non-qualified personnel.

I have bought Tylenol several times in a number of different pharmacies for my kids, no one ever asked me a single question.

[Michael Hardner]

I have bought Tylenol several times in a number of different pharmacies for my kids, no one ever asked me a single question.

Strange that you don't use TCM for your children, isn't it ? Why not give them dried tiger penis when they have a runny nose ?

[bjre]

Strange that you don't use TCM for your children, isn't it ? Why not give them dried tiger penis when they have a runny nose ?

I do give them some health food according to TCM. Instead of your non-sense penis, I give them pear, candy that contains mint, and some others when they cough.

When I don't know how to deal with or need some drug that I can not obtain without a doctor, I will definitely go to see a doctor.

I don't go to see TCM for my kids because I have to pay money if I go.

But I think there are people willing to pay that money, their freedom to choose their own health solution should not be taken away.

Edited December 11, 2009 by bjre