I want to get this clear

[RB]

The Humane society is best friends to animals, yet a whole whack of folks are being call out...Top officials at the Toronto Humane Society and its board of directors have been charged in an ongoing investigation into animal cruelty

I mean I was fliping though the TV when I heard that one Kitchner dog was drag by a car (unknowingly?) - and appeal to the public brought in over $15,000 while the a child bitten by a dog that same day only got $1,000 from the public

So I wanted to ask whether animals are right there at the top with humans. Obviously, we love our animals, fishes, snakes, elephants, goats, teddy bear, lipstick, shoes etc. We have not gone a tad too far have we with our love?

[Guest TrueMetis]

Don't beat an animal but an animal does not deverve the same rights as humans. Some groups ( like the Toronto human society ironically enough) believe animals deserve all the rights of human and all I have to say is fuck that. I'll stick with animal welfare.

Edited November 29, 2009 by TrueMetis

[bjre]

All Shelters, no matter if its for animals, for women, for CAS, are now tools of those who plunder money from taxpayers and through charity. I wonder how they can afford so many advertisements, so many TV programmers. I wonder what the salary they earn, what kind of office they use. what kind of car they drive. Consider the number how many kids lost their parents, how many wife lost their husbands, for animal is better for them to bully human beings. I prefer those who deal with animals use all the money than CAS use a single penny.

[whowhere]

All Shelters, no matter if its for animals, for women, for CAS, are now tools of those who plunder money from taxpayers and through charity. I wonder how they can afford so many advertisements, so many TV programmers. I wonder what the salary they earn, what kind of office they use. what kind of car they drive. Consider the number how many kids lost their parents, how many wife lost their husbands, for animal is better for them to bully human beings. I prefer those who deal with animals use all the money than CAS use a single penny.

Animals require a shelter because of society and the acts of people. Animals did not decide to be pets they were made out to be pets. As it is when kids are raised by questionable parents and guided by questionable schooling to ultimately be kicked or pushed through the cracks of life there has to be mechanisms to deal with these situation.

What you are talking about is adminstrative corruption which is unacceptable. Just another way how the conservatives reaveal how corrupt they are.

[Wild Bill]

What you are talking about is adminstrative corruption which is unacceptable. Just another way how the conservatives reaveal how corrupt they are.

Man, are you ever stretching to take a crack at the right wing! It's been common knowledge for years and years that the Toronto Humane Society has been taken over and run by leftist, fringe animal rights radicals! They have attacked other Humane Societies in the media for not "caring" enough for the animals and have demanded budget increase after increase to pay for their "no euthanasia" policy. The Toronto newspapers have been full of these stories for some years now.

And now you blame it on conservative corruption? Good Lord! It's the very hypocrisy of the Toronto Humane Society and its leftists that makes this a story! I mean, being holier than thou about euthanasia and yet having animals starve to death in their care??!!

Open mouth, insert foot, I guess!

[whowhere]

Man, are you ever stretching to take a crack at the right wing! It's been common knowledge for years and years that the Toronto Humane Society has been taken over and run by leftist, fringe animal rights radicals! They have attacked other Humane Societies in the media for not "caring" enough for the animals and have demanded budget increase after increase to pay for their "no euthanasia" policy. The Toronto newspapers have been full of these stories for some years now.

And now you blame it on conservative corruption? Good Lord! It's the very hypocrisy of the Toronto Humane Society and its leftists that makes this a story! I mean, being holier than thou about euthanasia and yet having animals starve to death in their care??!!

Open mouth, insert foot, I guess!

The conservatives control the criminal code. Ammend the criminal code to go after the adminstrators of these shelters and we will see how animals are treated after that amendement is made.

[Wilber]

The only reason shelters for domestic animals to exist is because of irresponsible humans. When a person gets a pet, they and no one else is responsible for its welfare and that includes finding an appropriate home if they can no longer keep it. If they aren't prepared to make that life long commitment, they have no business getting one in the first place.

[Goat Boy©]

So I wanted to ask whether animals are right there at the top with humans. Obviously, we love our animals, fishes, snakes, elephants, goats, teddy bear, lipstick, shoes etc. We have not gone a tad too far have we with our love?

I will be far more likely to offer help to that which lacks the means to help itself. (Domesticated or injured animals)

Human beings have the capacity to pick themselves back up and try again, that's life, and a big part of it. We have millionaires in Canada that used to be homeless, and most people that think they need help have more resources available to them than they realize.

[Shwa]

So I wanted to ask whether animals are right there at the top with humans

Not "animals" in general, but deffo dogs and maybe house cats too as coevolutionary species. They maybe might not be right at the top in the same category, but we should at least take care of these beasties that we have brought along and selected all these 100 thousand years or so. It's only fair I think.

[fellowtraveller]

Dogs, cats and the like are as important as humans

No, they are not.

Not even close.

[Moonbox]

This will be perceived as an aweful thing to say, but personally I care even less about the street bum begging for coin than I do about stray dogs at the humane society. Maybe I'm a terrible person, but I truly don't see the difference. Just because I share more in common genetically with the street bum doesn't automatically mean I should feel more responsible/care more for his problems.

A vagrant typically has more opportunity to understand/improve his circumstances than does an animal. An animal's well-being is almost ENTIRELY dependant on the people around it.

Edited November 30, 2009 by Moonbox

[Alex Moore]

This will be perceived as an aweful thing to say, but personally I care even less about the street bum begging for coin than I do about stray dogs at the humane society. Maybe I'm a terrible person, but I truly don't see the difference. Just because I share more in common genetically with the street bum doesn't automatically mean I should feel more responsible/care more for his problems.

A vagrant typically has more opportunity to understand/improve his circumstances than does an animal. An animal's well-being is almost ENTIRELY dependant on the people around it.

Your right this will be perceived as an awful thing to say, entirely because it is an awful thing to say.

NO no and no. You really need to take a look at homeless people before even considering your argument. Homeless people are the people who fall through the cracks in our society. Not that i'm denying them responsibility of they're action(surprise a conservative defending the homeless). but as an observation they typically suffer from a mental illness or a drug addiction. The streets are the refuge of those who have nowhere else to go. you can't say the schizophrenic understands his situation when he scared of aliens sending him messages. You can't say the addict will improve without treatment. these people are the ones who are dependent on others. the schizophrenic needs his medication and the addict needs help to move past his addiction. Animals on the other hand are perfectly capable of surviving outside of human control. I may surprise you to know that most of the animals in the shelter are either feral or abandoned. Regardless of their history the animals in the shelter will have most likely been surviving outside of human control for months. Why does fido stick around in an abusive home? I don't know but you can't say either. As two why I care more about the homeless guy more than the beat up dog? I care more for him because we are member of the same moral community. That is we are judged by the same principle an act in accordance with them. If a homeless guy stabs me or if I stab him we are both capable of understanding that are actions were wrong and that there are consequences to them(and that we we'll be punished). Fido does not. not matter how cute and lovable pets are still motivated by survival needs. Honestly starve your dog (don't actually this is just a point) and see how cute they are then. a dog that kills a man will not understand what he has done as wrong in any moral sense. We shoot that dog not because he is a criminal but because he is a danger to society.

[Moonbox]

Your right this will be perceived as an awful thing to say, entirely because it is an awful thing to say.

Matter of opinion. I didn't say I hate the homeless. I said I don't feel worse for them than animals in the humane society who will likely be eventually put down .

as an observation they typically suffer from a mental illness or a drug addiction. The streets are the refuge of those who have nowhere else to go.

Choosing to do drugs is a choice. It's not like, "Oops, I started shooting heroine. I never knew this would happen." Of course upbringing has something to do with it, but 99% of kids who start know it's a TERRIBLE idea to begin with. As for mental illness, well that's all relative. Sometimes there's clearly mental illness at work, sometimes you're just dealing with idiots who've been to jail too many times and can't get jobs anymore.

you can't say the schizophrenic understands his situation when he scared of aliens sending him messages.

Ya because you see these people everywhere right...this is a good example of the average homeless guy Watch a few more movies.

You can't say the addict will improve without treatment. these people are the ones who are dependent on others.

A lot of them don't want treatment, refuse treatment and alienated their entire families. They'll be dependent on others their whole life and constantly refuse to help themselves. Sorry. Don't care about those.

Animals on the other hand are perfectly capable of surviving outside of human control.

No they're not. They're not allowed to live outside human control. We round them up and bring them to the Humane Society.

I may surprise you to know that most of the animals in the shelter are either feral or abandoned.

More like abandoned and abused. Feral would mean you found them in the forest somewhere, and we REALLY don't have a lot of wild dogs running around...at least not in Ontario.

As two why I care more about the homeless guy more than the beat up dog? I care more for him because we are member of the same moral community.

No, we're part of the same community. That's it. The woman begging me for change downtown Guelph so she can go do something fun like go and see a movie (her words) is not part of my moral community. She just lives in the same city as me.

That is we are judged by the same principle an act in accordance with them. If a homeless guy stabs me or if I stab him we are both capable of understanding that are actions were wrong and that there are consequences to them(and that we we'll be punished).

That's kind of my point. The homeless guy who chose to shoot up or shank someone or whatever knew at the time it was wrong/bad at least on some level. If he can't make that distinction, he's in the same moral community as the animals we're talking about.

Fido does not. not matter how cute and lovable pets are still motivated by survival needs.

So are humans. Given the means to survival, however, a HUMAN should aspire to grow and improve and be productive. The ability to reason and think gives us that power. The people who survive and linger in the gutter (ruling out your schizophrenics of course), somehow miss that part.

Honestly starve your dog (don't actually this is just a point) and see how cute they are then. a dog that kills a man will not understand what he has done as wrong in any moral sense. We shoot that dog not because he is a criminal but because he is a danger to society.

Starve a human and see what they'll do. When you get down to that level a dog and a human will act pretty much the same.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Moonbox

[jbg]

Don't beat an animal but an animal does not deverve the same rights as humans. Some groups ( like the Toronto human society ironically enough) believe animals deserve all the rights of human and all I have to say is fuck that. I'll stick with animal welfare.

When I took my wife out on our first date, she was wearing a fox coat. When we were discussing activities she said she was active in United Jewish Appeal. I said I was an "animal rights activist". She didn't believe me for whatever reason.

I guess she could detect my sarcasm.

[bjre]

How many African kids or northern native kids can have support to go to school with the money to "save" one animal?

It is typical they put such materials in all kinds of media and though advertisement to fool people.

Watch the following video to find who is one of the worst evils in Canada.

[bjre]

There are kids in CAS care abused. There are animal in THS care living in horrors, there are women in women's shield be badly treated.

They care nothing about human right. They care nothing about animal. Money is everything they really care about.

Animals at the Toronto Humane Society are living in 'a house of horrors,' inspectors said

The Toronto Humane Society will use donor money to pay the legal costs of the four senior managers charged Thursday with criminal offences, the Star has learned. Donations to pay accused's legal bills

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontohumanesociety/article/732056--donations-to-pay-accused-s-legal-bills

Edited December 1, 2009 by bjre

[Wild Bill]

The conservatives control the criminal code. Ammend the criminal code to go after the adminstrators of these shelters and we will see how animals are treated after that amendement is made.

Give me a break! This comes under provincial law, not federal. Blame Dalton's Liberals!

Whatever. The criminal code is working just fine. The authorities heard what was happening, got a warrant, investigated and laid charges.

Why on earth would you blame the criminal code and those who enacted the legislation? How about blaming the leftist, arrogant featherheads who have so poorly treated the animals in their care? I mean, does it not make more sense to blame the criminal? You argue that we should blame those who make the laws!

I think you're WAY out in left field on this one!

Here's another link:

http://news.sympatico.cbc.ca/abc/Local/ON/ContentPosting?isfa=1&feedname=CBC_LOCALNEWS&date=true&newsitemid=to-humane-society

"The Ontario SPCA, working with city police, raided the Toronto shelter last Thursday and said it found animals in such poor health that four of them had to be put down. Five senior officials were arrested and charged with animal cruelty."

"Investigators said they found a mummified cat on the premises, which one OSPCA official described as a "house of horrors."

OSPCA lawyer Christopher Avery alleges the Toronto society is reluctant to euthanize sick or dying animals and blames management for dictating euthanasia policy without regard for the animals' best interests."

[BubberMiley]

When I took my wife out on our first date, she was wearing a fox coat. When we were discussing activities she said she was active in United Jewish Appeal. I said I was an "animal rights activist". She didn't believe me for whatever reason.

I guess she could detect my sarcasm.

Did she believe you when you said you were a left-wing radical? Did anybody ever?