Canadians Still Distrust US of A

[g_bambino]

American elections are not about the best possible man (or woman)...same as in Canada. Oh....wait...you don't even get to select him or her.....best or not.

Are you trying to play the part of the "dumb American", BC? Really, just how low will you sink in order to bait people into an angry dispute?

[Guest American Woman]

EDITED TO ADD: Also, the people themselves do not bother me, but what the people may possibly be led to do or believe is another kettle of fish entirely.

This is, after all, the same nation of people who were led to believe that Bush was the best possible man to lead the nation. In fact, so many bought into this idea that he got almost enough votes to be elected......not once, but twice.

That in and of itself is a frightening thought.

As heartwarming it is to hear that "the people themselves do not bother you" ( ) you might want to take a look at your own government. You do realize Harper is Canada's PM, right?

[wulf42]

Meet the new boss...same as the old boss:

Canadians are no more loving of the United States under its current leadership than during George W. Bush's presidency, suggested a poll published Monday.

That is because Canadians have no real identity.....we are a mix of this and that

and have no real culture, in a few years we will resemble more of a middle eastern

country than a western one! We are passive and are like sheep for the slaughter...

i admire the U.S. and many of the things that are done there....Canada used to be

a great country but with the passing of time and no immigration control that is

changing.Years of Liberalism have not been kind to Canada and it created an anti USA

sentiment, maybe with a Conservative majority that may change in time perhaps.

[bush_cheney2004]

Are you trying to play the part of the "dumb American", BC? Really, just how low will you sink in order to bait people into an angry dispute?

I'm always happy to use a spinner bait on you....the only fish in the pond who keeps returning to the same hook.

Report me to Her Majesty if you wish.

[Fortunata]

I think anti-Americanism is over played here; most people don't give any more thought to Americans than Americans give thought to Canadians. When asked, however, it brings immediately to mind things we don't like as people tend to remember negatives over positives. And the Canadian media dwell on it way too much. It's not a big of a deal as some make it out to be.

Furthermore, I'm tired of being told we don't have our own culture, our own identify - that if we didn't identify with not being American we aren't anything. What's the matter with just being Canadian? A mix of every country in the world with a basic English/European background that's changing every year as our population changes, as our ideas change, as the world evolves? I don't think the French are asked ... what is French, or the Germans ... what is German? So why are we asked?

It's all phony in my opinion. We are .. Canadian. We don't have to articulate what that means .. we know. Same as every other nationality in every other country.

[jbg]

It's all phony in my opinion. We are .. Canadian. We don't have to articulate what that means .. we know. Same as every other nationality in every other country.[/font]

Especially since, given your views that I should not have been allowed at the 2005 CPC convention, you don't want Americans to articulate anything about Canada. Or perhaps since you're so blitheringly inarticulate yourself.

[Fortunata]

Are you still telling the same lie jbg? I said nothing of the sort and have pointed this out to you more than once. I have quoted exactly what I did say more than once. Your lies say more about you than they do about me.

And I don't have to be anti-American to call you on it. I just have to be anti-liar. Your nationality has no bearing in the matter.

[jbg]

And I don't have to be anti-American to call you on it. I just have to be anti-liar. Your nationality has no bearing in the matter.

I am not going to dig back through posts made in July or August 2006 to expose the fact that you are lieing. Your response is a smokescreen, itself belied by the post I responded to.

The purpose of the smokescreen is to avoid showing that you are intellectually incapable of saying anything about Canadian identity.

Edited November 8, 2009 by jbg

[Fortunata]

You know jbg, I'm sick of this. I've proven time and again that you are lying. Enough, just enough. If you can't add to the topic, just leave. This personal attack is unwarranted and against the rules.

[jbg]

You know jbg, I'm sick of this. I've proven time and again that you are lying. Enough, just enough. If you can't add to the topic, just leave. This personal attack is unwarranted and against the rules.

You get what you give.

Now, please express your thoughts on Canadian identity.

[Smallc]

I would say that she's already expressed his thoughts. His view of Canadian identity seems to be quite different than your's, but that's ok, because it's his view. To her Canada is what it is it seems, and if that's enough, I don't see how it's your place to question that, any previous disagreement notwithstanding.

Edited November 8, 2009 by Smallc

[jbg]

I would say that he's already expressed his thoughts. His view of Canadian identity seems to be quite different than your's, but that's ok, because it's his view. To him Canada is what it is it seems, and if that's enough, I don't see how it's your place to question that, any previous disagreement notwithstanding.

I didn't see what his views are.

You have to have some background here. I joined the forum on June 26, 2006. I made reference to the CPC convention, I believe, with regard to some contretemps on another board. Or maybe it was about the rude response of (French-speaking) security officers guarding the Gomery hearings in the underground passage leading to the convention center.

His response to my presence on MLW was inhospitable and rude. An apology has long been in order.

Edited November 8, 2009 by jbg

[Guest American Woman]

His response to my presence on MLW was inhospitable and rude. An apology has long been in order.

I actually went back and read the thread you are referring to. His response wasn't in regards to your "presence on MLW," but rather your posting about the US in the Federal Politics Forum and your claims to be a liberal (which I've questioned myself). Also, he did not say you should not have been allowed at the 2005 CPC convention; he said he found it strange that you attended.

Seriously, three years is too long to carry a grudge. By now you should either let it go, or ignore him and simply not respond to his posts. Furthermore, bringing up ancient history without a link to prove your claims really isn't fair.

[g_bambino]

I'm always happy to use a spinner bait on you....the only fish in the pond who keeps returning to the same hook.

Sorry; like I said elsewhere, I have higher expectations for you. You've been tired and predictable lately; where's the creativity, BC?

[Guest American Woman]

The National Post Carried basically the same article that was linked to in the opening post in this thread, but had additional comments, which I find interesting:

Cohen, who authored The Unfinished Canadian, a best-selling book on Canadian identity,[...] suggested that the reasons for Canadian attitudes could stem from a narcissism of small differences -- preferences for hockey over baseball or public health care over private -- instead of embracing the many similarities between the two.

"Are there two people more alike in the world than Americans and Canadians, who speak by and large the same language, who dress the same . . . who share values of democracy and freedom and capitalism and human rights? Cohen asked.

"There is an insecurity in the Canadian character that comes out in these polls: we don't know what we are, but we know damn well what we aren't."

So even Cohan, who wrote a book on the Canadian identity, says the same thing I have said regarding how similar Canadians and Americans are.

Edited to Add: I find this comment by Cohen interesting, too: "Anti-Americanism is the ‘hardy perennial' in the Canadian garden," especially in light of this survey taken early this year, which finds that Canada Remains Americans’ Most Favored Nation. This is the fourth straight year that Canada has topped the country rankings....

Edited November 8, 2009 by American Woman

[jbg]

I actually went back and read the thread you are referring to. His response wasn't in regards to your "presence on MLW," but rather your posting about the US in the Federal Politics Forum and your claims to be a liberal (which I've questioned myself). Also, he did not say you should not have been allowed at the 2005 CPC convention; he said he found it strange that you attended.

Thanks for finding it. I had thought the event happened earlier and incorrectly restricted my date range to June 26, 2006 to September 30, 2006 when searching for the post.

Seriously, three years is too long to carry a grudge. By now you should either let it go, or ignore him and simply not respond to his posts. Furthermore, bringing up ancient history without a link to prove your claims really isn't fair.

Here's the "offending" post. You can't find any posts I made in that thread primarily about the U.S. What I did do was compare the two countries on issues of national loyalty and language laws. He launched into an unsolicited diatribe about my going to the CPC convention.

I would not have brought it up except for his continuing offhand, snide and childish remarks. There are many on the forum who I sometimes agree with and sometimes disagree with. This poster is simply rude and I don't know why.

I'm willing to bury that hatchet and not between his ears if he does too.

jbg, who are you and where did you come from? You seem to bring up the USA in your posts under Canadian Politics-not where they belong.

As far as I can tell reading your posts you haven't once posed a non-Conservative opinion; you denigrate Trudeau in particular (not that he shouldn't come under criticism) and most things liberal in general yet you call yourself a liberal? Canada is but a blip on the US radar so I cannot understand your interest unless it is just to put down this country in any way you can. And attending a CPC convention? Why? I mean, really, a CPC convention? A Canadian political convention that IS NOT liberal, in fact is far right wing? What's it to you? Strange, strange, strange.

You can't find harbOUr in your own country or what?

[bush_cheney2004]

Sorry; like I said elsewhere, I have higher expectations for you. You've been tired and predictable lately; where's the creativity, BC?

It doesn't take much in creativity to hook you time and time again. Any "royal" chum will do.

Good thing this is catch and release.

[g_bambino]

It doesn't take much in creativity to hook you time and time again. Any "royal" chum will do.

No, no; still banal. Oh well; seems you've lost your touch.

[Fortunata]

Cohen, who authored The Unfinished Canadian, a best-selling book on Canadian identity,[...] suggested that the reasons for Canadian attitudes could stem from a narcissism of small differences -- preferences for hockey over baseball or public health care over private -- instead of embracing the many similarities between the two.

"Are there two people more alike in the world than Americans and Canadians, who speak by and large the same language, who dress the same . . . who share values of democracy and freedom and capitalism and human rights? Cohen asked.

"There is an insecurity in the Canadian character that comes out in these polls: we don't know what we are, but we know damn well what we aren't."

Some years ago there was a survey done in which Americans overwhelmingly thought that all people in the world would like to be American. I think that raised a lot of hackles and maybe Canadians go out of their way to disprove that. In the big scheme, however (which I guess proves the insecurity theory), it matters not what Americans think - why do we believe it does?

The continuing over-analyzation proves what the pollster or author wants to prove. If certain questions are asked in certain ways the answer will be negative .. imo, that's what usually happens. And then it's blown out of proportion. I have never been asked what I like about the US; the conversation usually goes the opposite way.

I have never been asked if I am happy with being Canadian without being asked why. To me that's immaterial, why do we need specific reasons. Isn't it enough that we are?

[Guest American Woman]

Some years ago there was a survey done in which Americans overwhelmingly thought that all people in the world would like to be American. I think that raised a lot of hackles and maybe Canadians go out of their way to disprove that.

Don't you think most Canadians think that most people would like to be Canadians? Why not? Why would they dislike it?

In the big scheme, however (which I guess proves the insecurity theory), it matters not what Americans think - why do we believe it does?

It sure doesn't. I think things that other people say and do go without notice, and that's the way it should be with Americans, too.

The continuing over-analyzation proves what the pollster or author wants to prove. If certain questions are asked in certain ways the answer will be negative .. imo, that's what usually happens. And then it's blown out of proportion. I have never been asked what I like about the US; the conversation usually goes the opposite way.

I wonder why that is? Why you're always asked the negative? What if there were a poll like the one I posted, which has Canada coming up as the 'most favored' country by Americans? I suppose the U.S. would be pretty far down on that list. I just think it's kind of sad that this would be going on between two neighboring countries like ours. We should be close.

I have never been asked if I am happy with being Canadian without being asked why. To me that's immaterial, why do we need specific reasons. Isn't it enough that we are?

I think it should be enough that you are, and that goes for anyone regardless of their nationality. And I think, when one has the good fortune of living in countries like ours, it should go without saying that we are happy living where we are/being what we are.

[Oleg Bach]

Why would we trust a nation of old war lords and why should they trust us - Like I said...we are actually exactly like the Americans but more private about our deviant nature. When are we going to face the fact that there are no good guys running nations. People who gain ultimate power over any national family that thrive on international enterprize are not nice guys... America is an honest nation . If they want something - they kill to get it..you can forget about all the talk about brining democracy to other nations - they don't have any democracy to speak of or to spare. On the other hand it is wise to love individual Americans but dispise their crimminal system.. Crimminality rules - it always has and always will - You can pretend that you are noble but that will never make it so.

[bush_cheney2004]

....I wonder why that is? Why you're always asked the negative? What if there were a poll like the one I posted, which has Canada coming up as the 'most favored' country by Americans? I suppose the U.S. would be pretty far down on that list. I just think it's kind of sad that this would be going on between two neighboring countries like ours. We should be close.

The only poll that matters to me involves people voting with their feet.

On this score, it's America by a large margin....and it's not just because of the "weather".

[Oleg Bach]

The only poll that matters to me involves people voting with their feet.

On this score, it's America by a large margin....and it's not just because of the "weather".

We have a new generation coming up that looks upon voting as a waste of time. Eventually no one will vote. American woman is correct when she states that we should be close - Americans and Canadians on a personal and individual bases should be close friends - what our governments are doing is of little consequence..to muster forth and propogate hate toward the American people is very unwise - love and friendship will always serve us better - You get more flys with honey than with vinegar. Not that I want us to start eating flys together but sharing a meal and a kind word might be a good start. Besides BC - you are the president are you not?

[Oleg Bach]

IF . America is ruled by the people as we are led to believe then we must make friends with the people - the individual. Every American is the president and presides over the nation. To paint this whole nation with one smearing tar brush will only lead to problems. In fact I propose that we unite...but leave Mexico out untill they get their crimminal problem under control. America has great potential - but to hate it at all cost is madness..sure they have problems but they are redeemable as a culture.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... America has great potential - but to hate it at all cost is madness..sure they have problems but they are redeemable as a culture.

True, but America's potential has already been realized several times over. America will succeed or fail on its own terms, regardless of Canadian distrust even in partnership. Well intentioned but naive comparisons to "cousins", "brothers", or "neighbours" ignores the roles of nation states and interests. I think some Canadians abhor the US because they can't reconcile negative policy judgements with their own economic survival.

Hence...."Damn Americans....I hate those bastards".