return of Nordiques to NHL

[Guy M]

Steps up how?

By agreeing to move into a brand new $400 million arena paid for by taxpayers where they will demand all revenues go to their team?

What a ridiculous concept, spending that kind of money in a small place to gratify the egos of locals.

Next step: the cry of RACISM AGAINST QUEBEC if taxpayers fail to leap behind this cause.

Question for Winnipeg and Quebec: will your market support the purchase of 18,000 tickets priced $70 t0 $250 for 41 homes games and four exhibition games every year, indefinitely? That means a pair of season tickets will cost around $6000 to $20000 every year, win or lose.

You raise many good points. First 400 million is a lot of money. Didn't the Molsons just buy the habs and Bell center for 575 million? That is for one of the most financially sucessfull teams in the league and a 22000 seat arena in downtown Montreal. 400 million for just an arena in the suburds of Quebec is a lot of money... And I doubt they will get Charest and Harper to put in 175 million each. Labaume is throwing a line and seeing what he will catch. That said a less ambitious project that costs less may still be feasible with one or many private partners.

As for market size, a tricky argument. Some small cities with so-so economies can sustain teams, a good example of this is the Green Bay Packers. The climate is not the same today as it was in the mid 1990s;

For one there is a salary cap. For another, both Quebec and Winnipeg lost their teams during a tech Bubble era, when certain areas boomed while Quebec's economy for example stagnated and even contracted from the referendum. Today Quebec's economy is no tiger, but compares much better to similar sized cities, for example unemployment is around 5% compared to nearly 10% as the US average, and no toxic mortages to shoulder for the average hockey fan.

[fellowtraveller]

As for market size, a tricky argument. Some small cities with so-so economies can sustain teams, a good example of this is the Green Bay Packers. The climate is not the same today as it was in the mid 1990s;

No, the Packers are not even close to a good example. For one thing, they have a much larger population in their trading area than Quebec. But the real reason is that the NFL does not depend on their gate revenue, and the Nordiques most certainly would. The NFL has a monster, multi billion dollar network contract and scores of millions of rabid fans. The Nordiques would have their gate.

Qubec may compare better to similar cities, but they have a small trading area and there are no teams in the NHL anywhere near that small.

Can you sell ordinary people expensive tickets indefitnitely in Quebec, a small city with a small trading area?

I have serious doubts.

[jbg]

That was not my point and I do not agree with what you said, it does not apply to all entertainment.

I guess you don't have the privilege or curse of living in a city such as New York.

If I decide to take the family to a Rangers' game or Broadway show, it's $500+ for the evening. A bit rich for mine and many other peoples' blood.

[fellowtraveller]

I guess you don't have the privilege or curse of living in a city such as New York.

If I decide to take the family to a Rangers' game or Broadway show, it's $500+ for the evening. A bit rich for mine and many other peoples' blood.

Taking a family to such high end activities regularly is for the rich or foolish.

Try bowling or a movie, much more affordable family entertainment.

But thanks for making my case that taking in a Nordiques or Jets game won't be possible for many families.

[lictor616]

Taking a family to such high end activities regularly is for the rich or foolish.

Try bowling or a movie, much more affordable family entertainment.

But thanks for making my case that taking in a Nordiques or Jets game won't be possible for many families.

have you ever heard of rafter seats? for 20-40 bucks you can get a nice nosebleed section that lets you see the action just as well.

[jdobbin]

If you cannot answer that question with an enthusiastic 'yes' then Winnipeg and Quebec will have problems surviving.

They wouldn't. I don't expect a number of teams now in the NHL will survive either unless they have billionaires willing to lose tens of millions.

If your team is successful, you can and do charge those numbers. If you are Phoenix, you charge ten dollars, as they did on opening night and sold out. Now they have gone back to their regular(low) prices and are drawing 7,000.

There are quite few teams charging low ticket prices. I can pick them up in Tampa and Miami for a song too.

In a league given by the gate and a payroll in the $55 million range per team, you have to sell out lots of expensive tickets to make a dime.

I just do not see markets like Winnipeg and Quebec doing that for long.

Neither do I.

The economics of the NHL don't support it.

We'll see what the economics of the NHL does to the league in the next year.

[blueblood]

They wouldn't. I don't expect a number of teams now in the NHL will survive either unless they have billionaires willing to lose tens of millions.

There are quite few teams charging low ticket prices. I can pick them up in Tampa and Miami for a song too.

Neither do I.

The economics of the NHL don't support it.

We'll see what the economics of the NHL does to the league in the next year.

I don't think the economics of the NHL support a team in Hamilton either. We could very well see what was happening in the great depression era which was a massive contraction. Which would not be good for the sport.

[Smallc]

I think the NHL is going to have to change one way or another. Either it will shrink or become a lower salary and cost league.

[blueblood]

I think the NHL is going to have to change one way or another. Either it will shrink or become a lower salary and cost league.

I think the BOG knows what they are doing, the last thing they want to do is turn the NHL into CFL 2.0. I think they have some plans relating to something going down in Europe.

[jdobbin]

I don't think the economics of the NHL support a team in Hamilton either. We could very well see what was happening in the great depression era which was a massive contraction. Which would not be good for the sport.

It is why I say that Winnipeg will wait. They have a very profitable team and arena now and can afford to wait till the economics of the league change.

My feeling is that the no one here can argue that economics of the league are realistic or sustainable. Even in a full bore economy, teams lost money hand over fist. Now...it must be a bloodbath. Something gotta give.

[fellowtraveller]

have you ever heard of rafter seats? for 20-40 bucks you can get a nice nosebleed section that lets you see the action just as well.

Oilers tickets start at about $45 for standing room and there are very few of those.

Same for other Canadian teams

I don't think the economics of the NHL support a team in Hamilton either.

Hamilton or Kitchener could easily support a transfer team, likely the last and only North American market that is underrepresented. The problem is that it could also support a big fat new franchise fee of perhaps $200-$250 million, and how do you find somebody rich enough/dumb enough to pay that when existing franchises are going to be available for much less as they fail?