September Massacre in the Liberal Party of Canada (Quebec)

[August1991]

Quatre proches de Denis Coderre ont décidé lundi de remettre leur démission au chef libéral, Michael Ignatieff, pour appuyer celle de Denis Coderre, a appris La Presse.

L'organisateur en chef du parti au Québec, Pierre Lajeunesse, le président d'un comité chargé d'approuver les candidats, Éric Simard, un responsable du financement, Jean Rizzuto et le cousin de M. Coderre, Jean-François Coderre, ont tous fait savoir au bureau du chef du parti qu'ils claquaient la porte.

...

Par ailleurs, selon le réseau CTV, Nathalie Le Prohon, qui devait se présenter dans Outremont et qui a accepté la semaine dernière de tenter sa chance dans Jeanne - Le Ber pour laisser le champ libre à l'ancien ministre Martin Cauchon, reconsidérerait son choix et songerait à ne pas être candidate libérale lors des prochaines élections.

La Presse

Nathalie Le Prohon may not run after all. Four collaborators of Coderre resign.

Nevertheless, one has to admire Liberal spin and chutzpah:

The party has an unbelievable amount of work to do to rebuild its intellectual and organisational muscle. Nowhere is that more true than in Quebec. Hopefully today is a first step towards a real renewal of the party in the province.

Robert Silver

Lastly, I'm not sure what to make of this:

Les libéraux de Michael Ignatieff puisent de plus en plus dans les rangs du Parti libéral du Québec pour rebâtir leur formation et regagner le terrain qu'ils ont perdu dans la province depuis 2004.

Signe indéniable de rapprochement, les libéraux fédéraux se sont adjoint les services de Jean-Marc Fournier, ancien ministre influent dans le gouvernement de Jean Charest, a appris La Presse.

...

M. Fournier est le deuxième libéral influent du PLQ à se joindre aux libéraux de Michael Ignatieff en vue du prochain scrutin. L'avocat Marc-André Blanchard, qui a été président du PLQ et qui a conservé des liens étroits avec Jean Charest, a annoncé en avril qu'il serait coprésident de la prochaine campagne électorale au Québec.

19 August 2009

If this is a housecleaning, Ignatieff better know exactly what he's doing. Rather, I think he's improvising unless other people are pulling the levers behind his back.

[madmax]

"Nathalie Le Prohon may not run after all. Four collaborators of Coderre resign."

The Liberals have blown it if they have lost this woman.

[jdobbin]

Four collaborators of Coderre resign.

Four relatives you mean.

If this is a housecleaning, Ignatieff better know exactly what he's doing. Rather, I think he's improvising unless other people are pulling the levers behind his back.

He probably received straight advice from Fournier about Coderre and what was happening on the Quebec front.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

House cleaning is what it is, don't be fooled. The right wing would have folks believe their line but that doesn't make it true. The Conservatives have lost ground in Quebec, and that is the reason for the spin.

[August1991]

Four relatives you mean.

...

He probably received straight advice from Fournier about Coderre and what was happening on the Quebec front.

It's much more than that, Dobbin.

"We don't really have anyone else in the party in Quebec to do what Denis was doing," said a former Liberal political staffer who had been in touch with his colleagues on Parliament Hill. The staffer, who asked to remain anonymous, said the Coderre resignation is a worrisome issue for Liberals.

"It now depends on how Ignatieff deals with this. They've got to deal with it in such a way that they don't tick off Coderre or his supporters."

Canwest

I like Jean Lapierre's take on this:

In his analysis Lapierre said the slight to Coderre was such that he had no choice but to resign and that Ignatieff has a lot to learn about loyalty in politics. Coderre was an avid Ignatieff supporter in the last Liberal leadership race while Cauchon sided with Rae.

The Gazette

----

The Liberals may try to spin this but it's hard not to see it as just bad leadership. Cauchon made noise, Ignatieff countermanded Coderre, Coderre and others resigned.

Ignatieff should have seen all this coming. I even wonder whether someone set him up.

This is no way to run a political party.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Not much different than what the Conservatives have done under Harper actually. There just isn't much difference in how the game is played from a partisan perspective.

[jdobbin]

It's much more than that, Dobbin.

You mean it wasn't four relatives?

The Liberals may try to spin this but it's hard not to see it as just bad leadership. Cauchon made noise, Ignatieff countermanded Coderre, Coderre and others resigned.

Ignatieff should have seen all this coming. I even wonder whether someone set him up.

This is no way to run a political party.

You mean this was the super secret plan on the part of Coderre to get Ignatieff to implode so that Coderre could take over a party reduced to 5 seats in all of Canada in an election?

[punked]

"J-D Bellevance of La Presse was on Power Play this PM saying they will have a poll this week showing more bad news for Ignatieff and the Libs in Quebec."

So we might get some more Quebec numbers. Also with Iggy pulling in 21% support and leadership numbers which tend to be leading indicators Harper is looking at a majority in the next election unless the Liberals pull their act together.

[August1991]

You mean it wasn't four relatives?

One cousin. To my knowledge, Rizzuto and Lajeunesse are not related to Coderre.

You have to understand that Coderre was a bulldozer but sometimes parties need someone like that to organize. I'm no fan of Coderre but if the intention was to reform the Quebec wing of the federal Liberals, Ignatieff has gone about this the wrong way.

You mean this was the super secret plan on the part of Coderre to get Ignatieff to implode so that Coderre could take over a party reduced to 5 seats in all of Canada in an election?

Not Coderre. Someone else. Maybe Charest.

BTW, I'm not impressed with the suggested links to Desmarais. Desmarais has his tentacles all through the Liberal Party (and Quebec politics in general) so I wouldn't be surprised to learn that his name comes up. For heaven's sakes, Desmarais employed Paul Martin and lent him a whack of money to start in business.

-----

How will this play in Quebec?

Here's the key Gilles Duceppe quote today:

«Je pense que c'est la même situation dans tous les partis politiques pancanadiens, a affirmé Gilles Duceppe. C'est vrai dans le Parti libéral, et M. Coderre l'exprime aujourd'hui. Les Québécois sont en minorité et puis pour conserver leur droit de parole ou leur titre, ils doivent se plier à la majorité «canadian» contre les intérêts du Québec.»

Rue Frontenac

IOW, this little episode shows once again that the main decisions in Canada are taken in English and Quebecers don't control their own destiny.

[OddSox]

You mean this was the super secret plan on the part of Coderre to get Ignatieff to implode so that Coderre could take over a party reduced to 5 seats in all of Canada in an election?

Heh. If that's truly the case then, (1) it seems to be working, and (2) Mr. Ignatieff may even be more incompetent than previously thought.

Edited September 29, 2009 by OddSox

[jdobbin]

One cousin. To my knowledge, Rizzuto and Lajeunesse are not related to Coderre.

The report said four relatives. I have no idea though.

You have to understand that Coderre was a bulldozer but sometimes parties need someone like that to organize. I'm no fan of Coderre but if the intention was to reform the Quebec wing of the federal Liberals, Ignatieff has gone about this the wrong way.

Coderre was beginning to look toxic to a few inside and outside of Quebec.

Not Coderre. Someone else. Maybe Charest.

Because he doesn't like Coderre? Igmatieff?

BTW, I'm not impressed with the suggested links to Desmarais. Desmarais has his tentacles all through the Liberal Party (and Quebec politics in general) so I wouldn't be surprised to learn that his name comes up. For heaven's sakes, Desmarais employed Paul Martin and lent him a whack of money to start in business.

So you dislike him.

-----

How will this play in Quebec?

IOW, this little episode shows once again that the main decisions in Canada are taken in English and Quebecers don't control their own destiny.

I guess we'll see if Coderre gets sympathy.

[jdobbin]

Heh. If that's truly the case then, (1) it seems to be working, and (2) Mr. Ignatieff may even be more incompetent than previously thought.

One more step Harper's dream of a complete end to the Liberal party?

[capricorn]

I guess we'll see if Coderre gets sympathy.

Most of the comments from the public I'm reading in the Quebec media about Coderre's resignation amount to "good riddance". My impression is that any sympathy for Coderre is largely found within the Liberal party in Quebec.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Most of the comments from the public I'm reading in the Quebec media about Coderre's resignation amount to "good riddance". My impression is that any sympathy for Coderre is largely found within the Liberal party in Quebec.

Exactly! This is partisan house cleaning, nothing more. Even so the spin from the right makes it look bad. Strange the right is prone to believe anything they are told by their big bosses!

[jdobbin]

Most of the comments from the public I'm reading in the Quebec media about Coderre's resignation amount to "good riddance". My impression is that any sympathy for Coderre is largely found within the Liberal party in Quebec.

He may have been alienating that part of the party.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politi...article1304655/

In an article published the same day, Le Devoir reported that Mr. Cauchon was not the only victim of Mr. Coderre's aggressive “renewal” strategy for the party. The article claimed to have obtained information indicating Mr. Coderre had asked at least four other MPs to give up their seats, including former party leader and Chrétien loyalist, Stéphane Dion.

Later in the week, La Presse's André Pratte wrote an editorial titled “The ‘Coderrisation' of the Quebec Liberals,” in which he gave Mr. Coderre some credit for trying to “rejuvenate the image of the party with some new faces.” Mr. Pratte opined that such a renewal is “laudable and necessary,” but warned that it should not be undertaken “at the expense of experienced Liberals who we know will be heavyweights in government.” Mr. Pratte seconded Mr. Marissal's suggestion that Mr. Coderre was putting his own ambitions ahead of his party's and suggested that, in the future, Mr. Ignatieff should be wary of letting “the ambitions of Denis Coderre put the resurgence of the party [in Quebec] in peril.”

[Jerry J. Fortin]

You have to take into consideration that Quebec has an interesting dynamic to its politics and those of us not living there have a great deal of trouble understanding it. Quebec first of course, but a strong Canadian nation to provide a helping hand if needed secondly. The focus must remain directed toward Quebec at all times.

[Argus]

Most of the comments from the public I'm reading in the Quebec media about Coderre's resignation amount to "good riddance". My impression is that any sympathy for Coderre is largely found within the Liberal party in Quebec.

Coderre has always struck me as one of the greasiest, oiliest examples of a political weasel you could find in Canadian politics. Yet he was becoming THE man in Quebec. What other French Liberal MPs have you heard much about lately? I think someone in the Liberals did not like the idea of Coderre becoming the heir apparant who is destined to eventually replace Ignatieff - sooner or later.

Nor would I put it past someone like Coderre to make sure that no one he recruits to run in Quebec would be likely to threaten his future ambitions.

Good riddance is right. I don't think Coderre as Liberal leader would stand a chance against whomever the Tories put up, but I'd just as soon not take the chance.

[August1991]

Ignatieff shows up at a fundraiser in Laval, organized by Coderre, but Coderre is not there. Next Sunday, Ignatieff has a function in Quebec City, again organized by Coderrre, but of course Coderre won't be there either.

But here's the real problem:

L'organisation montréalaise du parti faisait par ailleurs des pieds et des mains, hier, pour tenter de dénicher un successeur à Pierre Lajeunesse, l'organisateur en chef du parti pour le Québec, qui a démissionné en même temps que M. Coderre.

Le Soleil

When Coderre resigned, five others resigned with him. It is going to be difficult to replace these people because first, the Liberals are going to take a hit in Quebec polls and two, who wants to work for Ignatieff when they see how he returns loyalty?

The Liberals will keep their 10 or so seats in the West Island but I give them zero chance right now of winning anything anywhere else.

The question now is how this will affect the BQ/Tory races elsewhere.

[Wild Bill]

When Coderre resigned, five others resigned with him. It is going to be difficult to replace these people because first, the Liberals are going to take a hit in Quebec polls and two, who wants to work for Ignatieff when they see how he returns loyalty?

The Liberals will keep their 10 or so seats in the West Island but I give them zero chance right now of winning anything anywhere else.

The question now is how this will affect the BQ/Tory races elsewhere.

Interesting! I heard or saw no mention at all of 5 others resigning! This is a rather important factor and I'm surprised it hasn't been talked up more.

People tend to be blissfully unaware of how 9/10ths of a political party iceberg is under the surface. A party runs on sergeants, corporals and privates far more than officers and generals. One of the main reasons Reform did so well against the old PC's was that they took virtually all the PC's grunt workers at the riding levels, leaving them with only their officers. They no longer had much of an army to lead!

It looks like Ignatieff has taken a big hit to the party machinery in Quebec. I'm not much of a Mulroney fan but one of his greatest strengths, particularly in Quebec, was that he understood that you should "dance with who brung ya", meaning you return loyalty to those who have given it to you. This ensures a strong support base.

I'm waiting for our favourite Liberal spinmeister to jump in and tell us to ignore all this and concentrate on Harper's Quebec gaffes last election!

[jdobbin]

When Coderre resigned, five others resigned with him. It is going to be difficult to replace these people because first, the Liberals are going to take a hit in Quebec polls and two, who wants to work for Ignatieff when they see how he returns loyalty?

Guess we will have to see how Quebecers react to the departure of Coderre. Perhaps there will be relief that he has jettisoned himself.

By the way, I keep reading that the people who resigned along with him were either relatives or related to him somehow.

[capricorn]

Since the time of Sir Wilfrid Laurier, to the present day, the Liberal Party has been built on the twin pillars of Quebec and Ontario, and the unity of French and English-speaking Canadians.

What began as a minor turf war of contending egos, and then became a battle of warring clans, has now been taken by Coderre to another level altogether, one which goes to the core of the party's existence - one pitting Quebec against Ontario, Toronto against Montreal, and English against French.

For Ignatieff, this is both intolerable and unsustainable. He cannot have this, not in the party of Laurier, St. Laurent, Trudeau, Chrétien and Martin.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/egos+Q...8667/story.html

Since his anointment as Liberal leader 10 months ago, Ignatieff has accused Harper of being divisive, of pitting one region against another. He tried to set himself up as the great unifier. Evidently, he has been outdone by his lack of political experience and acumen. He has demonstrated his utter lack of understanding of the dynamics of Canadian historical and political realities. If Ignatieff won't go willingly, the Liberals have to force him out. Nothing else will do, for the sake of this country.

[jdobbin]

Interesting! I heard or saw no mention at all of 5 others resigning! This is a rather important factor and I'm surprised it hasn't been talked up more.

We did talk about here. La Presse indicated that four of the people were relatives of Coderre. Does that change your view somewhat? I don't know about the fifth person.

I'm waiting for our favourite Liberal spinmeister to jump in and tell us to ignore all this and concentrate on Harper's Quebec gaffes last election!

I haven't ignored this if I am who you referring to.

There are just as many people out there that think the growth of the Liberals in Quebec was hurt by Coderre. It is possible that this will bring out some more people who have been sitting on their hands the past years.

[jdobbin]

If Ignatieff won't go willingly, the Liberals have to force him out. Nothing else will do, for the sake of this country.

Why stop there? Why not say that the Liberals should end for the sake of the country?

[Keepitsimple]

By the way, I keep reading that the people who resigned along with him were either relatives or related to him somehow.

I've only read about one being a cousin:

Four of Denis Coderre's top loyalists followed him out the door after he made his bombshell resignation announcement Monday, including a key Quebec organizer, a fundraiser and a candidate recruiter.

Ignatieff's office confirmed later Monday that Eric Simard, Jean Rizzuto, Pierre Lajeunesse and Coderre's cousin, Jean-Francois Coderre, had followed him in relinquishing their organizational roles.

Link: http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2009/...f-11166451.html

[jdobbin]

I've only read about one being a cousin:

My reading of this from my French to English...

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebe...ue-la-porte.php

Mais le départ de M. Coderre a provoqué une onde de choc au sein des troupes libérales au Québec, le jour même où Michael Ignatieff a déposé une motion de censure envers le gouvernement minoritaire de Stephen Harper. En effet, quelques heures après la conférence de presse du député de Bourassa, quatre de ses proches lui ont emboîté le pas en remettant leur démission à M. Ignatieff en guise de solidarité avec M. Coderre.

is this:

But the departure of Mr. Coderre has caused shockwaves in the liberal forces in Quebec, the same day that Michael Ignatieff has filed a censure motion against the minority government of Stephen Harper. Indeed, hours after the press conference of the member for Bourassa, four of his relatives have followed him by handing in their resignations to Mr. Ignatieff in solidarity with Mr. Coderre.

Now, perhaps my French is bad but I read it as "relatives."

Now, I suppose it could mean close associates but I heard again on radio this morning, they were all considered family.

Edited September 30, 2009 by jdobbin