Ignatieff agrees to HST

[msj]

msj... yeah, I am not sure how the typical renter will get hit (other than heating costs) unless they are renting within a condo type building which would also have maintenance fees (directly or indirectly).

In BC heating costs aren't an issue. In the September budget update the province indicated that "residential energy" is on the 7% exempt list from the provincial portion of the HST.

I guess Ontario isn't doing the same.

Other than condo type buildings with their fees I agree that this is much ado about nothing for most renters.

[M.Dancer]

msj... yeah, I am not sure how the typical renter will get hit (other than heating costs) unless they are renting within a condo type building which would also have maintenance fees (directly or indirectly).

Heating, garbage removal, snow removal, tradesmen's bills, legal fees..basically everything that a business might incur that we already pay GST on will now be 8% more. And that will be passed on to the renters.

[msj]

Heating, garbage removal, snow removal, tradesmen's bills, legal fees..basically everything that a business might incur that we already pay GST on will now be 8% more. And that will be passed on to the renters.

How many legal bills do landlords run up every year? Can't they do their own rental agreements from template?

As for the others - yeah, Ontario has it rough.

In BC our residential energy will be exempt (for the provincial portion not the federal 5% portion), our garbage removal is mostly provided by the municipality so no HST, and snow removal is infrequent enough that most renters (or homeowners for that matter) do it themselves (well along the most populated parts of the province).

As for tradespeople?

Sure, you're paying HST on their total invoice but at least there isn't PST embedded in the invoice for all the materials that they ended up paying for and have passed on to you (or for which you may pay for and hand over to the tradesman).

One should account for that little bit of savings before considering the little bit of extra cost....

[M.Dancer]

How many legal bills do landlords run up every year? Can't they do their own rental agreements from template?

Mine has a few. Everytime someone is evicted....

As for tradespeople?

Sure, you're paying HST on their total invoice but at least there isn't PST embedded in the invoice for all the materials that they ended up paying for and have passed on to you (or for which you may pay for and hand over to the tradesman).

everytime an aprtment is vacated there are costs...painting is the biggest, follwed by plastering. On top of regular maintenence, furnace, boiler, electricians, plumbers....

One should account for that little bit of savings before considering the little bit of extra cost....

There will be no savings. It's not like they were once doing two forms and will now do one...

[madmax]

Mine has a few. Everytime someone is evicted....

You must have a good lawyer, they haven't evicted you yet.

everytime an aprtment is vacated there are costs...painting is the biggest, follwed by plastering. On top of regular maintenence, furnace, boiler, electricians, plumbers....

Yes, all this will be passed on with the extra tax. That is the whole point of the HST.

There will be no savings. It's not like they were once doing two forms and will now do one...

That is correct.

[msj]

There will be no savings. It's not like they were once doing two forms and will now do one...

What I meant is this:

When a contractor paid for materials used to make a repair (and paid PST) he passed that along to the landlord as part of the cost.

Contractors will now still only charge through the 8% of HST based on the net (i.e. before HST) cost of the materials.

IOW, the cost for materials will be the same to the landlord under HST as it is under PST.

Yes, the labour for the tradesman will increase by 8%.

But then, the do it yourself landlord will be paying the exact same under PST as under the HST - go to home depot, buy item, pay 8% tax (whether PST or HST makes no difference).

[As an aside - some contractors charge a mark up on top of the costs (including PST). So, a $100 item plus $8 of tax is charged through to the client as $124.74 (including 10% markup and then GST of 5%). Now that $100 item will be marked up by 10% and then charged at 13% for $124.30 for a small savings. These contractors, BTW, are, in BC anyway, not doing this correctly which is another story I won't go into detail other than to note that many contractors should be thankful that they will no longer have to worry about a PST audit that would cost them hundreds if not thousands of dollars for their improper ways.]

Once again, for most renters, or even landlords, it will have a negligible effect and will be covered off by the HST tax rebate (well, for those who are "poor" enough to receive such a rebate).

As for lawyers - I don't know about Ontario but in BC people already pay PST on legal fees (unless they qualified as "low income" which most landlords would not).

So, once again, in BC at least, there is no change in cost.

[M.Dancer]

Labour is by far the greatest expense. The cost of a 5 gallons is nothing compared the the 25 hours....

[jdobbin]

I don't find Flaherty's position confusing.

It seems to me that he is offering a carrot to two Liberal provincial governments knowing full well that the voting public will blame the Liberal governments who took the carrot, not the Federal Government which offered it. Doing so will only serve to help his provincial conservative counterparts come next election, like his wife, for example.

But then he and others suggest they have nothing to do with harmonization. Come on. If you are offering money to take the program, you are involved.

Edited September 17, 2009 by jdobbin

[Wilber]

I live in BC, and I have to say....

What's the big F'ing deal? You're paying an additional 2% on a minuscule list of items, after all the taxes they pile on until we can't breath anymore, and we choose to construct an organized complaint against this?

I mean seriously, surely their are bigger fish to fry? It's nice to see Canadians standing up against the government, but come on, you couldn't have picked a better subject to protest?

With a few exceptions you will be paying 7% more on everything you didn't pay PST on before, which includes the labour to do almost everything.

[Wilber]

Labour is by far the greatest expense. The cost of a 5 gallons is nothing compared the the 25 hours....

I just had my house painted. The paint cost about $400. The labour was about $4000. It would have cost me $280 more with the HST.

[dlkenny]

If the HST is the way, I much prefer Alberta's HST.

Haha, me too. lol.

[Topaz]

As as as I'm concerned I think its ALL the politicans that agree with the HST. The Tories put pressure on the tax for provinces to take it and so now Flaherty is now saying , well, it up to the provinces. What a coward! The people on EI is really going to be hurt with this tax as well as the low income will be hit the hardest. This is just a series of taxes we can look forward to from government. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nation...article1293989/

[Topaz]

Here's another point of view on this tax. BTW, do Tory lead provinces have this tax? Could this be a plan by the Fed. Tory to have voters toss out other party government in a provincial election? After all, Harper said he wanted to colour Canada blue. I think this tax will make people blue! http://www.thestar.com/article/681763

[Topaz]

Here's what he Finance said yesterday talk about a mixed messages http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090919/...onization_costs

[Goat Boy©]

Here's another point of view on this tax. BTW, do Tory lead provinces have this tax? Could this be a plan by the Fed. Tory to have voters toss out other party government in a provincial election? After all, Harper said he wanted to colour Canada blue. I think this tax will make people blue! http://www.thestar.com/article/681763

Yes, because this plan never came from Jean Chretien's Liberal party correct?

[OddSox]

I don't think the issue is the HST - most would agree that it is a more efficient way to tax consumption, and actually will reduce prices in some instances.

The issue is the percentage rate. 8% is going to be a windfall and they're going to try and hide it in the recession. Giving us a one-time $300 rebate is a smokescreen. They should drop the rate to a realistic 5% and then run with that...

[madmax]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianp...Iwtxh9QOUBfCTKw

On Wednesday, Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty called on federal Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff to clarify his position on what Ignatieff has publicly called the "Harper Sales Tax."

McGuinty said on Tuesday that Ignatieff had agreed to support the blended sales tax should he become prime minister, then, after pressure from Ignatieff's office, McGuinty said there was "no formal agreement."

When asked to clarify his position Friday on the harmonized sales tax and whether he was contradicting McGuinty, Ignatieff in Ottawa said "No, we're not."

"Our position from the beginning has been that this is a matter between the Harper government and the provincial governments concerned. Period," said Ignatieff.

"I'm the leader of the Opposition. I've got no position to clarify. It's between those two governments. And when I become prime minister I'll have other decisions to take," he said.

[madmax]

I don't think the issue is the HST - most would agree that it is a more efficient way to tax consumption, and actually will reduce prices in some instances.

The massive structural change of going from the MST to the GST did not lower prices, however, many more items and services were taxed. There was no overall fall in price, unfortuneately.

The issue is the percentage rate. 8% is going to be a windfall and they're going to try and hide it in the recession. Giving us a one-time $300 rebate is a smokescreen. They should drop the rate to a realistic 5% and then run with that...

The issue is not with the % rate. It is with the increased catchment area. People will be paying significantly more in taxes, just as they did when the GST came into effect.

Meanwhile...

Leading the charge against the plan to blend the provincial sales tax and the federal goods and services tax were former premier Bill Vander Zalm and current provincial NDP Leader Carole James.

At least 15 rallies took place across the province, the largest of which was outside the new convention centre in Vancouver, where an estimated 2,000 people gathered to voice their opposition.

Vander Zalm told the crowd there that they have the power to stop the tax by putting pressure on the B.C. Liberal government.

A woman holds a sign at an anti-HST rally in Vancouver. (CBC)He said the 12 per cent sales tax, to be implemented in July 2010, will take money from those least able to pay during an economic downturn.

"The HST is a cruel tax," Vander Zalm said. "It takes from the people, the consumers, particularly … the seniors, the students, the people that can least afford to pay yet another tax and it's giving to the big corporations."

That sounds fair...

[madmax]

Finally finding a way out....

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/699006

We won't tear up HST deal, Liberal leader vows

[madmax]

Just keeping tweedle dee and tweedle dums tax policy platform thread close....

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Harper Sales Tax.......that is funny.