Good Integration

[Bonam]

The dream of a 'Star Trek' society is going to take a while with folks like you two in the way...

Ever notice how in Star Trek the vast majority of the humans portrayed are white? Yeah, that "dream" is already quite impossible, unless humanity has some dark episodes of genocide on an unprecedented scale in its future.

[lictor616]

Ever notice how in Star Trek the vast majority of the humans portrayed are white? Yeah, that "dream" is already quite impossible, unless humanity has some dark episodes of genocide on an unprecedented scale in its future.

What kind of ludicrous tangent are you taking this to? Star Trek!?!?

http://www.torias.net/images/autogr/star%2...ager%20cast.jpg

And either way it turns out your UTTERLY WRONG: Star Trek is so hopelessly liberal and diverse: look you have a native american, an asian, a klingon half human mixed race mongrel, a BLACK SPOCK!!!!!, a borg, a white hologram thingy... just a white FEMALE captain and another white dude for security and such.. I mean the cast is 20% white! what more would you like - oh wait I know... ZERO% white... to you white people have no place in the future right? they have no purpose still existing..

And before you backtrack and start screaming and whining about how racist it is to have a white leader...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AkrZ09GYiws/RqOY...400/ds9cast.jpg

Star Trek "Deep space 9" features a BLACK MALE CAPTAIN... a black klingon, etc...

yeah clearly star trek must be written by some KKK dragons... and embodies a WHITE DOMINANCE future...

listen to your nonsense! just listen to it!

Edited August 26, 2009 by lictor616

[Bonam]

What kind of ludicrous tangent are you taking this to? Star Trek!?!?

Hey, I didn't take it there, someone else did

http://www.torias.net/images/autogr/star%2...ager%20cast.jpg

And either it turns out your UTTERLY WRONG: Star Trek is so hopelessly liberal and diverse: look you have a native american, an asian, a klingon half human, a BLACK SPOCK!!!!!, a borg, a white hologram thingy... just a white FEMALE captain and another white dude for security and such.. I mean the cast is 20% white!

Actually you are quite wrong. The vast majority of actors portrayed as humans in Star Trek are white. This is only natural, since Star Trek was filmed in a majority white country. By your examples you seem to be referring to Voyager. You are right that in that series, many of the main roles are filled by people intended to be from diverse backgrounds, but take a look at the background characters.

Oh and by the way, females are still part of the white race. You seem unsure on that point. And it was Tuvok, the "black spock" that was in charge of security, FYI. And the "Borg" you mention was also a white human female. Don't forget Tom Paris, the helmsman.

what more would you like - oh wait I know... ZERO% white... to you white people have no place in the future right? they have no purpose still existing..

Actually I have no such desires. I very much want to see white people still exist 300 or 400 years down the road. If you have read my other posts, you would know that I have just as much desire to see all the races of humanity, most definitely including the one that has contributed most to scientific, technical, and societal progress, be preserved as you do. Why would I want to see the white race become extinct?

My point was not that I would not like to see white people still as prevalent 350 years from now as they are portrayed in Star Trek, but rather that given current demographics this seems overwhelmingly unlikely.

And before you backtrack and start screaming and whining about how racist it is to have a white leader...

Actually, I'm not one to "cry racist". In fact, I have only ever twice come across what I perceived to be real racial discrimination on this board. Once by yourself, and once by another poster. I am certainly not on the side of monkeyman or tango, who see everything as discrimination by the evil white people. But neither am I on your side, after having read some of your hateful posts regarding Jews.

yeah clearly star trek must be written by some KKK dragons...

listen to your nonsense.

I think you have quite thoroughly misinterpreted my stance. Oh well, your loss.

[DogOnPorch]

Ever notice how in Star Trek the vast majority of the humans portrayed are white? Yeah, that "dream" is already quite impossible, unless humanity has some dark episodes of genocide on an unprecedented scale in its future.

Except Sisko, Worf, Sulu, Tuvok, Guinan, Uhura, Geordi, Kim, Chakotay, Torres, Keiko O'Brien, Sato...did I miss anybody?

[Argus]

#1, I have nothing against White people, friends, girl friend are all White people (most of them) 100% pure Canadians as you like it!

Uh huh, which is why you whine about white people in every thread.

#2 I didn't defend the Sharia law

Yeah, you did.

There's a difference between being stupid and intelligent. Since you're an ignorant loser, you don't know what intelligence is

I know what stupidity is, though, and it's so easy to recognize in every one of your postings.

[fellowtraveller]

He expressed a resentment based on race

No, he expressed a grotesquely bigoted sentiment and I responded appropriately.

I won't tolerate it, and I don't let that pass.

If you see those viewpoints as being of equal moral credibility, you're the one with the problem.

[lictor616]

My point was not that I would not like to see white people still as prevalent 350 years from now as they are portrayed in Star Trek, but rather that given current demographics this seems overwhelmingly unlikely.

You're absolutely right, white people (if current trends continue) will be a memory in the very near future... say 100 of 150 years (that's if whites aren't genocided in 2045 when they will be a helpless minority in the countries they founded!)

It bothers me that despite your obstinance about the "dominance and bias given to white people" that you still at least know that whites are actually a numerical minority on this globe, the rest of whose inhabitants HATE US... but even with this knowledge you are unmoved by the vehement racism spewed on everything white and the obvious anti-white bias that permeates the mass media (and I actually would name star trek as a suggestive example of this!)... you seem to be somewhat acquainted with the reality of the situation... and yet refuse to defend the side being relentlessly abused!

I can only conclude that have some sort of inveterate racial hatred for whites.

Edited August 26, 2009 by lictor616

[lictor616]

No, he expressed a grotesquely bigoted sentiment and I responded appropriately.

I won't tolerate it, and I don't let that pass.

If you see those viewpoints as being of equal moral credibility, you're the one with the problem.

lol you won't tolerate "intolerance"... hmmm catch 22...

and by the way you're welcome to leave if you're incapable of rational debate and only interested in showing everyone your mucus.

[fellowtraveller]

lol you won't tolerate "intolerance"... hmmm catch 22...

and by the way you're welcome to leave if you're incapable of rational debate and only interested in showing everyone your mucus.

I'm not even talking about your bigotry, but I see how you'd just assume it.

[lictor616]

I'm not even talking about your bigotry, but I see how you'd just assume it.

no I know you were talking to another member... I'm just reminding you of the inanity of your comment.

[monkeyman]

I know what stupidity is, though, and it's so easy to recognize in every one of your postings.

Shut up you red neck

[Bonam]

It bothers me that despite your obstinance about the "dominance and bias given to white people"

You have me confused with someone else. I happen to agree with Argus' points regarding the advantages that are given to visible minority groups and not given to people of European descent. I believe that the policies of affirmative action and quota systems are wrong and racist and will contribute to greater racial divisions rather than fixing anything.

that you still at least know that whites are actually a numerical minority on this globe, the rest of whose inhabitants HATE US

Of course I know this. I've made this point and this argument long before you even showed up on MLW.

... but even with this knowledge you are unmoved by the vehement racism spewed on everything white and the obvious anti-white bias that permeates the mass media (and I actually would name star trek as a suggestive example of this!)

Actually I do perceive this bias and have spoken about it before.

... you seem to be somewhat acquainted with the reality of the situation... and yet refuse to defend the side being relentlessly abused!

I do defend that side, but that side is not your side. Your statements make you part of the problem, the lonely outlier that gives fuel to the otherwise outrageous claims of white racism. When others here accuse Argus, for example, of "white supremacism" in the face of his rational arguments, it makes them look like fools, but when they accuse you in the face of some of the rants you have posted, their words have a ring of truth. Your statements and attitudes do much harm to your proclaimed cause, rather than good, by giving your opposition proof of their suspicions, which otherwise would be false.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Bonam

[monkeyman]

You have me confused with someone else. I happen to agree with Argus' points regarding the advantages that are given to visible minority groups and not given to people of European descent. I believe that the policies of affirmative action and quota systems are wrong and racist and will contribute to greater racial divisions rather than fixing anything.

Again, this is something you read in papers, watch on tv. The fact is that the people who is discriminated in Canada when comes to get a job are ETHNIC MINORITIES, that's a FACT. You'll bring the same C.V. at the exact same place and you'll be refused if you're black and they'll call back the white person. They made experiences like these ones and it's proven, however it's not everywhere.

Yes some Black owners will refuse to hire a white, but what's the huge majority???? The huge majority of people that are discriminated are Ethnic minorities, but again you guys complain about something that is happening way more....

Congratulations

[Bonam]

Again, this is something you read in papers, watch on tv. The fact is that the people who is discriminated in Canada when comes to get a job are ETHNIC MINORITIES, that's a FACT. You'll bring the same C.V. at the exact same place and you'll be refused if you're black and they'll call back the white person.

Oh, got any proof of this assertion of yours? By the way, it's the interview that matters most for getting a job, moreso than the "C.V."

They made experiences like these ones and it's proven, however it's not everywhere.

Yes some Black owners will refuse to hire a white, but what's the huge majority????

So it's ok since there aren't that many of these cases? Sorry but racism is never ok. If "White owners" need to be forced to hire a certain quota of black people, then "Black owners" should be forced to hire a certain quote of white people. Fair's fair. Or in this case, unfair's unfair.

The huge majority of people that are discriminated are Ethnic minorities, but again you guys complain about something that is happening way more....

Another assertion without proof. I see far more discrimination against white people than against any other group. It is systematic and institutionalized, and is supported on the grass roots level by members of all racial groups, including many whites themselves, who have been educated in a culture of guilt and are convinced that they owe something to others by virtue of their birth and skin color alone.

[monkeyman]

Oh, got any proof of this assertion of yours? By the way, it's the interview that matters most for getting a job, moreso than the "C.V."

They made experiences like these ones and it's proven, however it's not everywhere.

So it's ok since there aren't that many of these cases? Sorry but racism is never ok. If "White owners" need to be forced to hire a certain quota of black people, then "Black owners" should be forced to hire a certain quote of white people. Fair's fair. Or in this case, unfair's unfair.

Another assertion without proof. I see far more discrimination against white people than against any other group. It is systematic and institutionalized, and is supported on the grass roots level by members of all racial groups, including many whites themselves, who have been educated in a culture of guilt and are convinced that they owe something to others by virtue of their birth and skin color alone.

100% agreed

[monkeyman]

You can say whatever you want, the fact IS that QUOTAS are there to REDUCE DISCRIMINATION toward ethnic minorities, that's the main goal of it.

[Bonam]

You can say whatever you want, the fact IS that QUOTAS are there to REDUCE DISCRIMINATION toward ethnic minorities, that's the main goal of it.

And yet they succeed only in breeding resentment, which will reap a new wave of racism.

[Remiel]

What you propose is a perversion of tolerance and a capitulation in the face of ignominious injustice, and for that I cannot respect you.

I suppose you would be the expert on perversion and capitulation as you cannot seem to avoid speaking about "race" out of one side of your mouth and "individuals" out of the other while pretending that there is no contradiction in what you say.

[g_bambino]

QUOTAS are there to REDUCE DISCRIMINATION...

Discrimination reduces discrimination?

[Griz]

Good! You, Messed-up mutt, oops I mean Dog, Lictor can all go back to where you belong Society will be ripe with better attitudes as soon as that happens

Iceland??

[tango]

And yet they succeed only in breeding resentment, which will reap a new wave of racism.

Only among those who already indulge.

[tango]

Discrimination reduces discrimination?

Ya, it's a funny thing ... like when one kid has more juice, and you have to equalize the amounts.

One loses one gains, then equity is restored.

Get over it. You're outnumbered by women and people of colour, and we make the rules now.

[Bonam]

Only among those who already indulge.

An assertion without any evidence.

I would contend that a normal individual who has no particular political affiliations or opinions on racial issues would become quite upset if they find out that they got rejected for a job simply because the company had to hire someone of a different skin color to fill a quota. It is quite possible that such an individual may grow resentful, if they are intelligent their resentment would be against the racist policy of affirmative action, if they are less intelligent the resentment would be targeted at members of other races whom affirmative action is aimed to "help". This seems to me inescapable, it is human nature.

If all our policies were "race blind" rather than based on discrimination, people like lictor would have no ammunition, nothing to point to and say that whites are "second class citizens". But as it is, they do, and they have an ever growing audience.

[g_bambino]

You're outnumbered by women and people of colour, and we make the rules now.

How do you know I'm neither a woman nor a person of colour? Did you just make a bigoted assumption?

like when one kid has more juice, and you have to equalize the amounts. One loses one gains, then equity is restored.

So, everyone gets to be equally racist? How nice.

_{[ed. to add]}

Edited August 27, 2009 by g_bambino

[Bonam]

Ya, it's a funny thing ... like when one kid has more juice, and you have to equalize the amounts.

One loses one gains, then equity is restored.

Even in your simplistic analogy, you lose sight of what is important. It is not of importance that one kid has more juice. What matters is how did he get that juice? Was it done justly? Perhaps he simply went and bought an extra juicebox? Or maybe he is just drinking his juice slower and has more left? And yet in your socialist zealotry you would not consider any of these factors, taking from the "rich" and giving to the "poor", without thought of justice or what is right and wrong.

The equity that matters is not that they have the same amount of juice, but that they both have the same right to keep what juice they have and not have it taken away from them and be arbitrarily given to others.

Get over it. You're outnumbered by women and people of colour, and we make the rules now.

Ah yes, so now it's time to take revenge on those evil white males, got it.