Central Banks

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Then surely you won't mind if we file your ideas under "X".

You file that data wherever you like. As we all do.

It's not a problem when people who should never have owned homes, or can no longer afford homes, lose same. That is how it has always worked. Have you ever seen a constable or sheriff evict an entire family? I have...about 45 years ago...not such a new idea.

You don't see this as a problem? Your government set the standards, your banking system set the actual qualifications. This was all a result of pursuing the "American" dream. The politicians and the bankers were simply facilitating the realization of that dream. You do understand that many of these people were on fixed incomes, which under the standards and qualifications at the time allowed them to have that mortgage in a very legal and binding way, right. Some years after they get their homes the cost of living goes up and inflation kicks in. Their fixed incomes remain the same but their expenses have all gone up and they can simply no longer afford to make their payments. These increases in expenses were a result of the continual growth of the system, a net result of the central planning being done by the banking industry. Boom and bust business cycles that were and are designed by the financial industry to correct market conditions and ensure the secure acquisition of expanding capital pumped into the system. Increased money supply only leads in one direction and that is the devaluing of currency and inflation. This is a simple economic truth.

That's the one....your Queen still runs it....like the Holy Trinity. Now we are the biggest pricks on the planet.

The Queen no longer has any say in matters in Canada. I think you should read the Statute of Westminister 1931, that document describes the nature in which the Crown and the British Parliament have removed themselves from the responsibility of legislative matters in the former colonies of the United Kingdom.

Your nation has indeed eclipsed the UK as being the biggest pricks on the planet. A fact that most of your citizens do not seem to fathom. A fact that your foreign policies still fail to take into consideration and a reality that only your citizens can experience once outside of your own nation.

Hard to argue with results....how do you like us now? Wanna buy another Globemaster III ?

Nice birds! We scored a few of them not so long ago. They are better than the Russian heavy lifters I think and vastly superior to what the Europeans use.

Then why haven't France or Japan met such a fate? They are carrying much larger debt to GDP ratios? Or do you only have an economic erection for the USA?

I think all three of those nations you mentioned are in deep shit. Again I want a stronger USA, not a weaker one. The USA has been a good influence on the rest of the world for the most part anyway. Nothing is perfect.

[Oleg Bach]

I am a long way from an American hater. I am an Albertan, we damned near revere the Americans. We know what they have done, what they can do and what they need. That is how our economy functions here, realizing these things is very important to us. The last thing Alberta wants is a harmed friend of our economy.

Yes - Have not been in Alberta for a long while - but I did notice when I went duck hunting -- that the locals reminded me of American cowboys...and hill billies... There was definitely still a frontier feel about the place...it's smart on the part of Albertans in charge to be on good terms with their neighbours to the south...If BC is but a small indication of the mentality of north western Americans - they would make fine friends- honest and loyal - if you show yourself to be the same way.

[bush_cheney2004]

You file that data wherever you like. As we all do.

The data? Why is your "data" relevant to me or the USA....running scared in Alberta produces warped data.

You don't see this as a problem? Your government set the standards, your banking system set the actual qualifications. This was all a result of pursuing the "American" dream.

Nope....the American dream is alive and well, and has more to do with opportunity than actual wood frame houses with bloated mortgages.

...Boom and bust business cycles that were and are designed by the financial industry to correct market conditions and ensure the secure acquisition of expanding capital pumped into the system. Increased money supply only leads in one direction and that is the devaluing of currency and inflation. This is a simple economic truth.

And yet the US has only become more dominant through such business cycles. The cycles are not designed by financial institutions, but are an inherent dynamic of capitalist systems and market based economies. With your logic, the US should have "fallen" in the 1970's.

The Queen no longer has any say in matters in Canada. I think you should read the Statute of Westminister 1931, that document describes the nature in which the Crown and the British Parliament have removed themselves from the responsibility of legislative matters in the former colonies of the United Kingdom.

Yes she does....if only in spirit. That what "constitutional monarchy" means....look it up.

Your nation has indeed eclipsed the UK as being the biggest pricks on the planet. A fact that most of your citizens do not seem to fathom. A fact that your foreign policies still fail to take into consideration and a reality that only your citizens can experience once outside of your own nation.

Nonsense.....save the "please love us" crap for Canada.

I think all three of those nations you mentioned are in deep shit. Again I want a stronger USA, not a weaker one. The USA has been a good influence on the rest of the world for the most part anyway. Nothing is perfect.

And I don't really care what you want. The USA has become stronger on its own terms, not yours. It will act in self interest, just as it always has. If that works out well for you or Alberta or Canada (like it has)....then so be it.

Edited June 29, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[Oleg Bach]

People assume that the American system is inferiour and barbaric - yet you prosper - I have come to the realization that our system is one of hording --- when this so-called recession appears -our banks "we are in good shape" -well that means YOU are in good shape - this ass hole who moves a billion at a time said to me with nothing - "We are in good shape" _ this is the mentality - hording - no risk taking and some sort of sick dominance they don't even realize they practice --- If I am smart and loyal and have nothing - and you have a billion to toss around at will - what the hell are you thinking? Nothing!

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Hey BC, you will be surprised soon enough. You folks called Ron Paul a crackpot, the lone public voice of monetary reason in your government, and you folks simply are either afraid of the truth or unwilling to learn from your mistakes.

Your new President has an awful lot on his plate, and he simply won't be able to deal with things the way you folks think he will. Health care is your new mantra for public spending. Once you add that to the baby boomer pension mountain and you take the whole mess and factor in military spending the bailout packages and stimulus plans become a mere drop in the bucket. You are spending your way into the dirt and too foolish to realize it. The only direction your nation is progressing in is toward debt and financial destruction. The fat cats will survive, as they always do. The average investors will get wiped out financially, kiss your 401k goodnight.

You have ways around the problem acting on your own behalf, but as a nation tough luck. Dump your investments soon, there is a small bump happening but it will not last long and then the real downward spiral will take place. You should be liquid before that happens. Get out of debt as quick as you can. Then unload any T-Bills and dollar holdings, they are going to lose a majority of their value. Buy gold and silver, pickup real estate where it can be had for cheap and use it as rental property when you can. Use off shore accounts to the extent that you can and avoid US Banks. Canadian Banks are relatively stable and safe. Create a startup company, run it out of your own home and take all possible tax deductions. Consider multiple companies if you are able, dealing with facets of your own consumption habits to help you avoid spending on your own behalf.

That small bump I am referring to is a stop gap created by financial institutions to reorganize their investment strategies and position themselves in order to take advantage of the numerous pennies on the dollar liquidations that are going to result from the massive numbers of business failures and fire sales of assets as more and more businesses and citizens end up in bankruptcy courts. In my view these institutions should be ready inside of the next few months. By the end of summer the shit will hit the fan.

Best bets for investments are energy and utility companies. There is simple no way around using these commodities. Even so, the smaller companies may suffer greatly from defaults and may end up being bought out. That does not mean that only the largest companies will survive, it means that the companies with better administrative talents have a better shot at survival. You may find that foreign companies end up buying out your troubled industries to a degree you never imagined.

The world has studied the US business model, tweaked it and made it work for them over the last few decades. The competition is only just now starting to heat up. As your economy tanks, and you cease to be the great consuming society your economic leverage begins to erode. When the greenback ceases to be the benchmark that will be the final warning of collapse for you. Even as we speak the Euro is replacing the greenback for bulk oil purchases in the middle east. China is buying your T-Bills and financing your debt with their current account trade surplus, they sell those T-Bills in chunks with interest and they are using those pretty greenback dollars of yours to buy gold, from Russia and South Africa mostly. They then sell the gold for Euro's and use those to buy middle east oil. The process has already begun.

Like I said before your nation is in deep trouble and without reforming your monetary system and your financial industry you are screwed.

[bush_cheney2004]

Hey BC, you will be surprised soon enough. You folks called Ron Paul a crackpot, the lone public voice of monetary reason in your government, and you folks simply are either afraid of the truth or unwilling to learn from your mistakes.

Ron Paul is a crackpot...he lost.

Your new President has an awful lot on his plate, and he simply won't be able to deal with things the way you folks think he will. Health care is your new mantra for public spending. Once you add that to the baby boomer pension mountain and you take the whole mess and factor in military spending the bailout packages and stimulus plans become a mere drop in the bucket. You are spending your way into the dirt and too foolish to realize it. The only direction your nation is progressing in is toward debt and financial destruction. The fat cats will survive, as they always do. The average investors will get wiped out financially, kiss your 401k goodnight.

No worries...I have a lot more than a 401k going on. The job of US president is not for the faint of heart. AS for spending, going into hock was good enough to fight Nazis for your Empire and land a man on the Moon.

You have ways around the problem acting on your own behalf, but as a nation tough luck. Dump your investments soon, there is a small bump happening but it will not last long and then the real downward spiral will take place. You should be liquid before that happens. Get out of debt as quick as you can.

Clue: I don't have any debt.

Then unload any T-Bills and dollar holdings, they are going to lose a majority of their value. Buy gold and silver, pickup real estate where it can be had for cheap and use it as rental property when you can. Use off shore accounts to the extent that you can and avoid US Banks. Canadian Banks are relatively stable and safe. Create a startup company, run it out of your own home and take all possible tax deductions. Consider multiple companies if you are able, dealing with facets of your own consumption habits to help you avoid spending on your own behalf.

Canada is a financial backwater...has strangled itself for years while feasting on foreign investment capital.

That small bump I am referring to is a stop gap created by financial institutions to reorganize their investment strategies and position themselves in order to take advantage of the numerous pennies on the dollar liquidations that are going to result from the massive numbers of business failures and fire sales of assets as more and more businesses and citizens end up in bankruptcy courts. In my view these institutions should be ready inside of the next few months. By the end of summer the shit will hit the fan.

Sure it will....the BIG ONE is coming....LOL! While we're waiting, is it OK if I install granite countertops?

Best bets for investments are energy and utility companies. There is simple no way around using these commodities. Even so, the smaller companies may suffer greatly from defaults and may end up being bought out. That does not mean that only the largest companies will survive, it means that the companies with better administrative talents have a better shot at survival. You may find that foreign companies end up buying out your troubled industries to a degree you never imagined.

I don't care who owns them...Japan tried to buy the USA back in the 80's and lost their asses. I only care about the churn...can make money in an up or down market.

The world has studied the US business model, tweaked it and made it work for them over the last few decades. The competition is only just now starting to heat up. As your economy tanks, and you cease to be the great consuming society your economic leverage begins to erode. When the greenback ceases to be the benchmark that will be the final warning of collapse for you. Even as we speak the Euro is replacing the greenback for bulk oil purchases in the middle east. China is buying your T-Bills and financing your debt with their current account trade surplus, they sell those T-Bills in chunks with interest and they are using those pretty greenback dollars of yours to buy gold, from Russia and South Africa mostly. They then sell the gold for Euro's and use those to buy middle east oil. The process has already begun.

So which nations have actually defaulted in the past 20 years?

Like I said before your nation is in deep trouble and without reforming your monetary system and your financial industry you are screwed.

Then that means you are screwed, because your economy is a pimple on a bull's ass.

[Oleg Bach]

Correction - a very small pimple on a mentally disturbed English Beagles ass...or is that a tumor - I have one at my feet - along with a dingo of a mutt...Max---rather they be grandchildren - but to bred in Canada - is difficult - we have a medical profession that loves to use very clever ways to sterilize potential competition...it's very controled here.

[bush_cheney2004]

Correction - a very small pimple on a mentally disturbed English Beagles ass...or is that a tumor - I have one at my feet - along with a dingo of a mutt...Max---rather they be grandchildren - but to bred in Canada - is difficult - we have a medical profession that loves to use very clever ways to sterilize potential competition...it's very controled here.

Cool...I think the Grinch's dog was named Max too.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I don't think I ever said that Canada was the pinnacle of economic wisdom. In fact the opposite is true, I am not a big fan of this nation at all. I am an Albertan, which is a lot like like America in its world and economic views. There is one small little detail about Alberta that most people don't understand including our own back water provincial government. We have our own bank. It is a provincial crown corporation, legal under the laws of Canada and able to generate credit to the same extent as any class one chartered bank in Canada.

To return to the point BC, like I said some individuals in the US can make out okay, but a vast majority will get screwed. You are old, out of the work force and protected according to you in financial condition. Just how many US citizens can lay claim to that condition? You are speaking as a greedy unfeeling and uncaring citizen. Your concern for your fellow citizens is non-existent. That makes your views irrelevant for your own nation. Your concern is for yourself, not anyone else.

Ron Paul is not a crackpot, but he did lose. Ross Perot wasn't a crackpot either, but he lost too. Both of these folks knew what was going on and tried to warn other folks, but you people would not listen for one simple reason. You folks all want to be the fat cat, ride high on the hog and have everyone else wait on you hand and foot. That too is part of the "American Dream", getting rich. That is on an individual level of course, not a national one. Your nation is going broke.

Go ahead and spend all you like, buy marble for your floors and granite for your counter tops, trim your rooms with teak and go buy a nice new car. It seems to me that you will not have to borrow to do it, so there is no problem at all...for you. What about your sons and daughters and the taxes they will have to pay on all that national debt. What about your friends and neighbors and their families?

The "BIG ONE" is coming BC, whether you believe it or not. You can position yourself or hide your head in the sand, your actions mean nothing. The actions of your nation mean everything. In the new short decades, Asia will replace America as the consumer capital on this planet. Meanwhile you will be living like a king, with many serf neighbors.

[Oleg Bach]

Cool...I think the Grinch's dog was named Max too.

I steal Christmas every year and keep it for myself...next year I am giving you the same gift I gave you last year - but bigger and better!

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I steal Christmas every year and keep it for myself...next year I am giving you the same gift I gave you last year - but bigger and better!

I can only hope that the next Christmas is better than the last. That is the same hope I have every year.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't think I ever said that Canada was the pinnacle of economic wisdom. In fact the opposite is true, I am not a big fan of this nation at all. I am an Albertan, which is a lot like like America in its world and economic views. There is one small little detail about Alberta that most people don't understand including our own back water provincial government. We have our own bank. It is a provincial crown corporation, legal under the laws of Canada and able to generate credit to the same extent as any class one chartered bank in Canada.

I'm happy for you..and all of Alberta. Between dirty tar sands and infected beef you should do just fine. As for your neverending bitches with the East....America already solved such a problem in a very American way.

To return to the point BC, like I said some individuals in the US can make out okay, but a vast majority will get screwed. You are old, out of the work force and protected according to you in financial condition. Just how many US citizens can lay claim to that condition? You are speaking as a greedy unfeeling and uncaring citizen. Your concern for your fellow citizens is non-existent. That makes your views irrelevant for your own nation. Your concern is for yourself, not anyone else.

Wrong...I am still employed and earning a handsome wage. Not only am I paying taxes at a high marginal rate, I am spending too. Charity and poverty are strange bedfellows. My concern is for myself and my family....I already served my fellow citizens years ago.

Ron Paul is not a crackpot, but he did lose. Ross Perot wasn't a crackpot either, but he lost too. Both of these folks knew what was going on and tried to warn other folks, but you people would not listen for one simple reason. You folks all want to be the fat cat, ride high on the hog and have everyone else wait on you hand and foot. That too is part of the "American Dream", getting rich. That is on an individual level of course, not a national one. Your nation is going broke.

You are making a fool of yourself....I worked on Perot's campaign staff in my state.

Go ahead and spend all you like, buy marble for your floors and granite for your counter tops, trim your rooms with teak and go buy a nice new car. It seems to me that you will not have to borrow to do it, so there is no problem at all...for you. What about your sons and daughters and the taxes they will have to pay on all that national debt. What about your friends and neighbors and their families?

They can move to Canada where the path to Hell is paved with good intentions and other people's money.

The "BIG ONE" is coming BC, whether you believe it or not. You can position yourself or hide your head in the sand, your actions mean nothing. The actions of your nation mean everything. In the new short decades, Asia will replace America as the consumer capital on this planet. Meanwhile you will be living like a king, with many serf neighbors.

Sounds good to me....I'd rather be a king amongst paupers than a pauper amongst kings. I hope all Canadians don't worry about America as much as you do.....sheesh!

Edited June 29, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[Oleg Bach]

The American dream was based on the idea that all men were kings - and during the revolutionary war - the cry was No King but Jesus..................seeing that chacter was the king of kings...it made his followers kings and king makers - while British royality back in 1776 had forgotten how to be kings and behaved like greedy paupers - this might explain the difference between Canada and the USA - that we are from the house of Pauper..and pretenders to the throne.....easy my Queen - after the lady Diana thing - you fixed the royal blood line...nothing worse than taking the Spencer king and making him the grounds keeper...no good can come from it..

[Pliny]

Being pro-American I have never really found myself on the wrong side of B-C before. He must be a banker of insurance broker.

Although I know a little bit about central banking and do believe it is flawed I don't know everything as B-C claims. Jerry and I would have our differences on solutions to the forthcoming economic morass but we do agree their will be a forthcoming economic morass.

One thing I know is it isn't capitalism that creates "the boom-bust cycle" but banking practices. Specifically, the practice of fractional reserve banking and the resultant creation of credit. So I offer that as information not to be confrontational. Believing that capitalism creates booms and busts of a general nature is a fallacy that even many economists believe. There may be good times and bad times for all businesses but saying there is a cycle that all businesses go through at the same time creating booms and depressions cannot be explained by a "cycle of capitalism". Fine for a single business to go through tough times and good times but when all entrepreneurs and corporations fall prey to tough times you all of them made the same mistakes in forecasting.

You, B-C can go on believing that general economic booms and depressions are a normal cycle of capitalism.

As for money.

Money has not existed in the US since the collapse of Bretton Woods in 1973. And even earlier for it's own citizens when the US treasury printed its last run of silver certificates in 1957, I believe, and removed "will pay to the bearer on demand" in 1963.

There are a couple of things that differentiate money from currency. Money can be used as a currency but a currency is not always money. One thing that is exclusive to money is that it is a fulfillment of a contract. The end of a contract. The finalization of a transaction. Payment in a fiat currency is not a finalization of a contract because the person has only paper in trade for his goods or services. He is hoping he can trade the paper for what he really wants at a later time. When he does that he has finalized his transaction. He has something that is of value for what he traded in the first part of the transaction. It is sort of like getting a check. You may feel when you get the check that the transaction is complete but it isn't until the check clears. It is only paper until that time.

Another property of money that is not necessarily a property of currency is that it is a store of value. A store of fiat currency is not guaranteed to have the same purchasing power in the future and most likely, due to inflation will not. Money will tend to hold it's purchasing power - it's value. Now it could be argued that there is no guarantee that whatever is used as money will always be used as money or even hold it's value. That is true. But whatever is used as money has evolved over time by the market and changes to it will be made by the market which everyone, as long as they are consuming and producing, will accept or alter as is agreed upon. This evolution over time makes money a very solid agreement and through the process of elimination is what becomes the most popular and efficient store of value.

Currency will change forms more easily as they are guarantees to the fulfillment of a contract and not the actual payment on a contract. Writing a check, accepting paper currencies, bills, IOU's, actual contracts themselves are merely contracts and guarantees and are considered currency. The government guarantees that their fiat currency will be accepted as a legal tender in any transaction. It has been a pretty good guarantee in the past. And as long as people have confidence that the government will be around and enforce the acceptance of their currency they will use it. Even though it is inflated by the central bank and loses purchasing power over the years.

So you can take that information and think about it or not.

There are twelve branches of the Federal Reserve Bank in the US. The principal one being in New York. There is the Federal reserve bank of Chicago and St. Louis, and I won't list them all here but they all act in unison in their territory.

A lot of Americans think the Federal Reserve is a part of the Federal government and that the IRS is too. They are both privately owned. One thing about this economic downturn is that people are actually talking about and researching more about economics trying to understand what is going on. It's great in that respect.

Fractional reserve banking is an actual banking practice B-C. Understanding it is easiest by understanding how it started. I don't think the people that wanted the Federal Reserve and brought it into existence were of evil intent. They do try their best to smooth out the economy although they are mostly the reason that the economy needs smoothing out. At it's inception the Federal Reserve was going to end the boom bust cycle of the past. They felt they now had the tools to be able to keep the economy stable. A year after it was born, chaos ensued. The Russian Bolshevik revolution started and WW I started. It ended and the League of Nations was born but couldn't really get off the ground, especially when socialism became popular in America just before and during the great depression, which, by the way, the inception of the Federal Reserve was supposed to curtail, and reared it's head in the form of National socialism in Germany, Italy and Japan. Spain went through it's revolution with Franco. Then WW II started and, and then the United Nations was born but the US had a constitution and there were concerns about there being foreign influences on their government. Then there was the Korean War and the cold war started and the Vietnam war followed by anti-establishment civil unrest and the dreadful seventies of Nixon and Carter.

Then a breath of fresh air from Reagan, the collapse of communism, and back to war in the Gulf under Bush Sr. and war in the Balkans under Clinton. Then the war on terrorism under GWBush.

There really doesn't have to be a war on socialism, communism, fascism or whatever "ism" that may come into vogue. They all fail and revert back to a free market and the only "ism" capitalism of the invisible hand that creates wealth and the standard of living you enjoy today. Obama will demonstrate how socialism fails. Of course capitalists will be blamed until people finally get tired of more and more interventions to continually correct things gone awry. Eventually they will wise up and throw off the yoke of big government. America is the only country left that will do this where the people have the concept of individualism and freedom and liberty.

The rest of the world will, like the wusses they are, just demand the government oughta do something about everything until they live under a tyranny.

Sorry B-C, America as long as it's liberty bell rings will always be the country that has to lead the way. I know you like to think you can just go your own way but Americans are the most charitable and compassionate people on Earth and they won't refuse to help when asked.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Sorry B-C, America as long as it's liberty bell rings will always be the country that has to lead the way. I know you like to think you can just go your own way but Americans are the most charitable and compassionate people on Earth and they won't refuse to help when asked.

Well, I am glad to see that the American fantasy you need to believe in is alive and well. (You might want to ask about 800,000 dead Rwandans about refusing to help.) As long as your understanding and scope cannot realize an economic framework sans America as keystone, then such self imposed limits shall remain.

As for fractional banking, fiat currency, or the Federal Reserve system in the USA, changes and tweaks are being developed just as they always have been AFTER an economic calamity. America's economic history is well documented, and if you study it, you will find that previous "systems" were not without serious flaws and downturns. And that includes the magic "gold standard".

If you insist upon placing and keeping the leadership burden on America, don't be surprised by American choices....good and bad.

[Pliny]

Well, I am glad to see that the American fantasy you need to believe in is alive and well. (You might want to ask about 800,000 dead Rwandans about refusing to help.) As long as your understanding and scope cannot realize an economic framework sans America as keystone, then such self imposed limits shall remain.

As for fractional banking, fiat currency, or the Federal Reserve system in the USA, changes and tweaks are being developed just as they always have been AFTER an economic calamity. America's economic history is well documented, and if you study it, you will find that previous "systems" were not without serious flaws and downturns. And that includes the magic "gold standard".

If you insist upon placing and keeping the leadership burden on America, don't be surprised by American choices....good and bad.

I do need to believe in the American fantasy and I am surprised you don't. America may become irrelevant and it is not a day I will celebrate. .

I doubt your knowledge of economics, which seems to be short of the lessons taught in America's well documented history, allowed you to come out unscathed last October.

America could become "isolationist" and perhaps that is a better policy than the interventionist policies it has employed over the last half century. It should lead more by example.

You sound more like a Canadian than an American - rather bitter and self-absorbed. I'm Canadian so you can expect that of me.

Anyway I agree with Jerry's analysis of a coming economic downturn that will dwarf what has just occurred and he offers some good advice to get through it. The government will only mess things up and delay recovery but the blame will always be borne by the capitalist system.

[bush_cheney2004]

I do need to believe in the American fantasy and I am surprised you don't. America may become irrelevant and it is not a day I will celebrate. .

Then you deserve whatever fate awaits you, since you refuse to cast off the American yoke.

I doubt your knowledge of economics, which seems to be short of the lessons taught in America's well documented history, allowed you to come out unscathed last October.

See, that is the difference between you and I....action in the face of adversity. You are happy to be an economic victim. Sometimes market timing works, especially when it is so obvious.

America could become "isolationist" and perhaps that is a better policy than the interventionist policies it has employed over the last half century. It should lead more by example.

America will do whatever is in its best interest. You can't have it both ways.....dependence on American "leadership" while wishing for a change in its economic system. Why are you so wedded to the future of Uncle Sam...a foreign nation?

You sound more like a Canadian than an American - rather bitter and self-absorbed. I'm Canadian so you can expect that of me.

I am not a Canadian....and don't blame America for my problems...I blame America for the wonderful opportunities. Not all Canadians play victim like you....so bitter and impotent....and worse yet....afraid of what might be.

Anyway I agree with Jerry's analysis of a coming economic downturn that will dwarf what has just occurred and he offers some good advice to get through it. The government will only mess things up and delay recovery but the blame will always be borne by the capitalist system.

Nothing new there...that's how it has always been. You and Jerry should fly to Las Vegas or Santa Anita racetrack and make millions.....oh wait...that would require taking some risk on your own...nevermind.

Edited June 30, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[Pliny]

Then you deserve whatever fate awaits you, since you refuse to cast off the American yoke.

Odd you see it as a yoke. I deserve my fate, yes.

See, that is the difference between you and I....action in the face of adversity. You are happy to be an economic victim. Sometimes market timing works, especially when it is so obvious.

Market timing that is obvious? I haven't met a financial advisor who saw it coming. I have read some economists that did. All from the Austrian school of economics.

America will do whatever is in its best interest. You can't have it both ways.....dependence on American "leadership" while wishing for a change in its economic system. Why are you so wedded to the future of Uncle Sam...a foreign nation?

Leading by example is best. It used to be the most prosperous nation in the world. I am concerned for it.

Should I be wedded to the future of Raoul Castro as some Canadians are?

I am not a Canadian....and don't blame America for my problems...I blame America for the wonderful opportunities. Not all Canadians play victim like you....so bitter and impotent....and worse yet....afraid of what might be.

Yes. Exactly how Canadians feel. I have some hopes as long as America is free.

Why so condescending?

[bush_cheney2004]

Odd you see it as a yoke. I deserve my fate, yes.

There are many definitions of yoke...you have chosen the heaviest.

Market timing that is obvious? I haven't met a financial advisor who saw it coming. I have read some economists that did. All from the Austrian school of economics.

Nobody sells at the top or buys at the bottom, but you can get close enough to reap great rewards. For some people, a 14,000 point Dow wasn't enough...they were blinded by greed.

Leading by example is best. It used to be the most prosperous nation in the world. I am concerned for it.

And before that it was not the most prosperous....still worked out well.

Should I be wedded to the future of Raoul Castro as some Canadians are?

Do as you please.....some Canadians don't worry about the giant at the top of the beanstalk.

Yes. Exactly how Canadians feel. I have some hopes as long as America is free.

America cannot always live up to your expectations.....or even its own.

Why so condescending?

An in-kind response.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Well BC, you will play the game your way, that is clear. Power to you if that is what floats your boat. On the other hand, I would prefer that things were set up a little better so that more folks could benefit from their efforts. American ideology has changed and that change has been detrimental to both the individuals and the nation. You have simply grown too big for your own boots dude. It was time that you were taught a lesson, and the school bell has just been rung. Its off to class for your nation................

[bush_cheney2004]

Well BC, you will play the game your way, that is clear. Power to you if that is what floats your boat. On the other hand, I would prefer that things were set up a little better so that more folks could benefit from their efforts. American ideology has changed and that change has been detrimental to both the individuals and the nation. You have simply grown too big for your own boots dude. It was time that you were taught a lesson, and the school bell has just been rung. Its off to class for your nation................

...but it sure as hell won't be Canada teaching the lesson. Tell China that it too has grown "too big"....then both nations can laugh in your face. America hasn't changed one bit, and neither has your false understanding from afar.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

...but it sure as hell won't be Canada teaching the lesson. Tell China that it too has grown "too big"....then both nations can laugh in your face. America hasn't changed one bit, and neither has your false understanding from afar.

Does it really matter who the teachers are? BC I don't know how to break the news to you but China is not just big, it is huge. They have already gone to school on the system of things America helped to design and they are already teaching America lessons. The first lesson you seemed to have missed is that you are cheaply bought with your own money. How many billions of dollars of U.S.T-Bills do they already hold? What is the current state of accounts between China and the USA? What has your nation done to address this issue of the wealth of America being collected in China?

Canada has never been in position nor has it ever had the desire to teach America any lessons, we are far too much like you to act in such a manner. We are dominated by your culture and economy, little less than a vassal of the powerful nation south of our borders, yet we are still sovereign and distinct citizens of the continent we both share.

You are foolish to believe America has not changed, for it has.

[bush_cheney2004]

Does it really matter who the teachers are?

Yes...it does.

BC I don't know how to break the news to you but China is not just big, it is huge. They have already gone to school on the system of things America helped to design and they are already teaching America lessons. The first lesson you seemed to have missed is that you are cheaply bought with your own money. How many billions of dollars of U.S.T-Bills do they already hold? What is the current state of accounts between China and the USA? What has your nation done to address this issue of the wealth of America being collected in China?

The US has continued to feed China all they they can handle. Because the US is still the best game in town.

Canada has never been in position nor has it ever had the desire to teach America any lessons, we are far too much like you to act in such a manner. We are dominated by your culture and economy, little less than a vassal of the powerful nation south of our borders, yet we are still sovereign and distinct citizens of the continent we both share.

Indeed...Happy Dominion Day !

You are foolish to believe America has not changed, for it has.

And you are foolish to think you can change it. Americans don't worry about Canada so much.....

Edited July 1, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Yes...it does.

The student obeys the teacher. It is a subordinate position whether or not the ability to choose the instructor is available or not. The relationship is the same, a constant.

The US has continued to feed China all they they can handle. Because the US is still the best game in town.

There is no doubt the USA can dish it out. There never was, in my mind. To be fair, the US can throw one hell of a punch, but it has developed a glass jaw in the manner of finances. You are now experiencing the reality of being on the other side of the fence. YOu think you retain control but it is an illusion. This is how the US has played the game from the second world war to this day, by the tables are now reversed. Your opponents have read your play book. They know every step you can and will take, they are well prepared. The US is now the bargain basement for investments. That will not change anytime soon because of the nature of your society.

Indeed...Happy Dominion Day !

Hey BC, that is Canada Day, we haven't used the other term in quite some time. You are a little out of date, not surprising for you Americans. Open a book or something and perhaps see if you can catch up on current events.

And you are foolish to think you can change it. Americans don't worry about Canada so much.....

Have I ever said I could change the USA? I have said, and do truly mean that I have deep concern for your nation. I have said that somethings need to change for your own benefit, but I have never said that those changes should be forced upon you from the outside. It remains my hope that you folks take care and take advantage of the opportunities that present themselves from time to time. At the present rate, you folks will be out of money very soon. By that I mean your credit or ability to get the money you need to pay your debts with more borrowed money will soon be out of your reach. Look what happened to Argentina, that reality is one that I would hope you can avoid.

[Pliny]

An in-kind response.

Doubtful. My opinion of you has been sullied. Pity!