Ontario- the summers of strikes

[Topaz]

Summer is here and again Ontario is facing strikes that will make the summer alittle edgy for some people. The LCBO is about to strike as of this Wednesday. The LCBO, made 1.4 BIllion last year and the worker make under $21,000., have no benefits or pensions. The city of Windsor has a garbage, taxi, parks etc on strike for almost 3 months, and they are hoping the city and CUPE can come to a agreement. Pensions is one of the outstanding issue. The city of Toronto is about to have its garbage strike like Windsor. So it seem its going to be a dry stinky summer for some Ontarians. I guess its best to leave the city and head for cottage country and have a pepsi or coke.

[Smallc]

Well....I hope my trip to Toronto isn't affected too badly....but I'm concerned.

[Borg]

Heck - it simply another summer of discontent - life will go on and the sun will rise in the east and set in the west

Trip to Hog Town?

A great place to say you are from and even better place to avoid

Everyone is looking for more money - but they will likely have to work for several years to make up their losses.

Borg

Edited June 22, 2009 by Borg

[daniel]

We've been spoiled that in the past six years, there have been relative labour-employer peace. Prior to this period, it was almost like a new strike or labour action every month for eight years from almost every sector you can think of.

That's the difference between a government set on war and one that is not.

[Chuck U. Farlie]

Question...

If the LCBO goes on strike, will that be Wednesday morning or Thursday morning?

Will the Beer store be affected, or only the LCBO?

I need to know when and what product to stock up on.

[Chuck U. Farlie]

Nevermind, I just found the info.... time to go buy a couple 60-ouncers.

LCBO strike looms

Canwest News ServiceJune 22, 2009 1:02 PM

OTTAWA — The union representing 7,200 staff members of the Liquor Control Board of Ontario will go on strike at 12:01 a.m. Wednesday morning if a collective agreement cannot be reached with the provincial government.

A key issue has been the LCBO's move away from full-time jobs toward a casual workforce.

Vanda Klumper, chairwoman of the union’s bargaining group, said if the LCBO insists on using part-time workers the union “will not hesitate to take this battle to the streets."

Calls were not returned Monday morning by the LCBO.

[Topaz]

Lets also remember that the Ontario government gave themselves a 25% increase in their pay, the NDP and Tories complained about but TOOK the increase and so did the Feds. So when provincial and Fed. workers go on strike they should get what ever the MPPs and MPs get and there wouldn't have to be a strike.

[Borg]

We've been spoiled that in the past six years, there have been relative labour-employer peace. Prior to this period, it was almost like a new strike or labour action every month for eight years from almost every sector you can think of.

That's the difference between a government set on war and one that is not.

Why would you presume the union is not guilty of being set on war?

In this economic time a strike will take forever to recover the lost revenue - only an idiot would vote for a strike - just be happy to be employed.

It couldvery well be a long one - hope the members have some cash saved up. Banks will not forgoe mortgage payments for very long

Borg

Edited June 22, 2009 by Borg

[DFCaper]

I live close to Windsor and have been following that strike. I am so happy to see the general population in Windsor showing that they are no longer a union town and are supporting there Mayor. Unions have built the town, but have now destroyed it. :angry:

I'm sure the Toronto strike won't last that long. It's too pathetic. It will be in way worst shape by Friday than Windsor even. No community and no leadership.

The LCBO is silly as well. I can't believe cashiers make what they make. I don't look at the LCBO as profitable, as it is an arm of the provincial government that is in deficit, and collecting taxes on top.

If these people deserve what they currently get, let alone what they are demanding, then we should raise the minimum wage to $20-$25 an hour. Since mowing lawns and being a cashier in private industry are minimum wage jobs... Let see how rich we all are then!!!!

[Borg]

Seems those booze dispensors in Ontario are about to hit the streets as well

Between the indians and the unions a lot of folks will be inconvenienced this summer

Might be time to spend the vacation at home making beer and wine

Cheaper and less problematic - why drive somewhere to get drunk when you can do it at home for less money and no travel detours around closed bridges?

Borg

[Borg]

To get rid of garbage in Toronto - first it must be sanitized so there is no potential of it coming back to you.

Hint:

Wrap it in many bright coloured papers - then drive to a lower quality section of town and leave it in your back seat with the window open - step away and watch - it magically disappears.

this is how I got rid of it in New York some years ago - worked like a charm every time

Borg

[fellowtraveller]

It begs the question: why on earth are waste disposal workers and liquor store cashiers government employees at all? What value is added by this?

I'd also wonder why -with so many Ontarians out of work and suffering- the govt doesn't hire replacement workers while the strikers exercise their right to withdraw their services? It 's a win-win-win situation- unemployed people get work, citizens get the services they have paid for, and strikers get to make their point for a long time on the picket line.

[Smallc]

It begs the question: why on earth are waste disposal workers and liquor store cashiers government employees at all? What value is added by this?

We contracted out waste disposal...didn't save much at all (if anything). It's really a wash, doesn't matter if it is, doesn't matter if it isn't.

Liquor stores on the other hand should stay a government responsibility (though the LCBO could loosen their rules to match the rest of the country). They add a great deal to Ontario's bottom line and they allow the province to control the product.

[Borg]

Liquor stores on the other hand should stay a government responsibility (though the LCBO could loosen their rules to match the rest of the country). They add a great deal to Ontario's bottom line and they allow the province to control the product.

How ...... governmentish.

Give me a break - put it out to the public - government still collects taxes

It is a rare day that a government can run a business to the maximum effectiveness

Borg

[fellowtraveller]

We contracted out waste disposal...didn't save much at all (if anything). It's really a wash, doesn't matter if it is, doesn't matter if it isn't.

Liquor stores on the other hand should stay a government responsibility (though the LCBO could loosen their rules to match the rest of the country). They add a great deal to Ontario's bottom line and they allow the province to control the product.

Your answers make no sense.

I have been on the other end of contracting out of services, as a provider. It was made quite clear to us by the bureaucrats (all of whom not ironically kept their jobs and ended up 'supervising' us) that they had not interest whatsoever in saving any money. Many. many municipalities contract out waste removal because it is cheaper. Why is Toronto different?

What it actually takes is political courage. Gargabe has no glamour and nobody cares until it stops getting picked up.

There is absolutely zero reason for the govt retailing alcohol. None. Alberta, for instance, has retained control of taxation and wholesaling of booze, kept plenty of the money, and greatly reduced taxpayers liability. And- they have greatly improved service in the industry, there are many more stores in many more places. They have added greatly to Albertas bottom line and the province still controls the product. All this other nonsense is just union rubbish. There is no reason for cashiers and shelfstockers to make money and benefits far beyond what other unskilled workers earn.

[Smallc]

Alberta, for instance, has retained control of taxation and wholesaling of booze, kept plenty of the money, and greatly reduced taxpayers liability.

From what I've heard, Winnipeg saved almost nothing from contracting garbage service out.

But anyway, the above is really what I was talking about. The government maintains control of the product and the pricing. In Manitoba, there are MLCC stores in urban centres and outside of those areas there are MLCC licensed facilities (of which we are one). An arrangement like this would probably be better.

[fellowtraveller]

From what I've heard, Winnipeg saved almost nothing from contracting garbage service out.

But anyway, the above is really what I was talking about. The government maintains control of the product and the pricing. In Manitoba, there are MLCC stores in urban centres and outside of those areas there are MLCC licensed facilities (of which we are one). An arrangement like this would probably be better.

I would not use Winnipeg or Manitoba as an example of anything regarding contracting out. As for alcohol, I've already explained how the province can retain control and profits without the liability of thousands of employees and hundreds of outlets. The Alerbta experince has been that there are many more stores offering many more products to consumers since privatization of liquor sales. There is absolutely zero reason for civil serrvants to be involved in retail sales.

Try to remove those ideological blinders and look at the facts.

[Smallc]

I would not use Winnipeg or Manitoba as an example of anything regarding contracting out.

That's because you lack knowledge of any kind on the subject.

[capricorn]

There is absolutely zero reason for civil serrvants to be involved in retail sales.

In fact, government involvement in directly selling a product to citizens provides the government another platform to push and promote its position on societal issues. Drinking and driving is an example whereby bags and in-store promotions remind clients that drinking and driving don't mix. This sounds positive on the surface but it reinforces the fact that we are too stupid to come to that conclusion on our own without the state helping us become enlightened.

[Smallc]

People seem to be too stupid to come to that conclusion on their own. Opposition to something like that is almost mind boggling.

[capricorn]

People seem to be too stupid to come to that conclusion on their own.

I see you have little faith in your compatriots. You think they're all idiots, just like governments do. In Canada, anyway.

Opposition to something like that is almost mind boggling.

Then, you rattle easily.

Government does not have to be involved in retail sales to put out a message that drinking and driving don't mix. Government does not sell tobacco directly and that doesn't stop it from messaging the ills of smoking. Now, if they did take over the sale of tobacco, that would provide them another venue to inform the unintelligent, which in the government's eyes, are all citizens.

[Smallc]

I see you have little faith in your compatriots. You think they're all idiots, just like governments do. In Canada, anyway.

Since people drink and drive, I do actually have little faith in some of them when it comes to that subject. Also, I never said that the government had to own it to be involved in anti drinking and driving campaigns....I said it was mind boggling that people would be opposed to the campaigns.

[capricorn]

Since people drink and drive, I do actually have little faith in some of them when it comes to that subject.

Yes, I grant you some people never learn. Nothing Ontario does will bring the message home to those boneheads. I applaud any time one is caught and pays the heaviest price in the courts.

Ontario should get out of the business of selling booze. It's hypocritical for the provincial government to decry drinking and driving, and selling the stuff that leads to the infractions they are trying to curb. And the provincial government wouldn't have to contend with strikes or the threats of strikes.

Also, I never said that the government had to own it to be involved in anti drinking and driving campaigns....I said it was mind boggling that people would be opposed to the campaigns.

Thanks smallc. Your point is much clearer to me now.

[Smallc]

I don't think any of us are really that far apart on this. I don't have a problem with the government owning the LCBO or not owning it...I still would rather the government maintain wholesaling and price control though, like in all provinces.

[Remiel]

It's hypocritical for the provincial government to decry drinking and driving, and selling the stuff that leads to the infractions they are trying to curb.

The government selling something it does not approve of and allowing the sale of something it does not approve of are only superficially different.