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Doer's resistance to anti-poverty measures perplexes


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http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/w...s-48721417.html

The Liberals picked up on the idea and brought Bill 204, the Social Inclusion and Anti-Poverty Act forward in 2008. It outlined legislation very similar to that passed in Quebec. It went to second reading in the spring of 2009 and appears to have gained support from the Conservative caucus. But spring session has now ended without the bill moving forward.

The NDP avoidance of Bill 204 is mystifying. While the Quebec experience tells us that legislation alone is not the answer, it is an important component of a comprehensive plan. The Doer government should move the bill to committee for public debate and amendment where appropriate.

This is just another example of how the NDP is risk adverse and doesn't even advocate for its core issues.

Increasingly, Doer is avoiding legislation that every other party supports and that have wide support elsewhere in the province? Why? That seems to be the question from even past supportive groups such as the Center for Policy Alternatives.

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I think you forgot the start of the article.

The Doer government has taken important steps to address poverty over the past eight years. Its All Aboard; Manitoba's Poverty Reduction Strategy released May 21 outlines some of those initiatives and introduces some new programs. The government is to be commended for actions taken.

Not only that but the measures set out and targets would leave out First Nations communities. That is why he does want to set targets, or classifications. He would rather work with community groups and first nations leaders to measure those who need help and to improve Manitoba. So instead of focusing on numbers he wants to focus on communities and people. He brought forward the All Aboard plan which is being put into effect to combat poverty.

A swing and a miss from dobbin and his love for the two lone Liberals in Manitoba.

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I think you forgot the start of the article.

Since I posted the entire link, I didn't forget anything.

Not only that but the measures set out and targets would leave out First Nations communities. That is why he does want to set targets, or classifications. He would rather work with community groups and first nations leaders to measure those who need help and to improve Manitoba. So instead of focusing on numbers he wants to focus on communities and people. He brought forward the All Aboard plan which is being put into effect to combat poverty.

What a bogus argument. The First Nations communities are begging for action and aboriginal leaders support Bill 204. Yeesh.

A swing and a miss from dobbin and his love for the two lone Liberals in Manitoba.

And a total apologist for the NDP who doesn't even recognize the fact that Doer won't even acknowledge a bill that has a real ability to make a difference on poverty.

If Harper believes the bill is lacking thing, make amendments or introduce a new bill! What is the wait? The NDP have been in power a long time in Manitoba. It is ridiculous that the Opposition should have to take the lead on a bill that is close to the NDP hearts.

Edited by jdobbin
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Since I posted the entire link, I didn't forget anything.

What a bogus argument. The First Nations communities are begging for action and aboriginal leaders support Bill 204. Yeesh.

And a total apologist for the NDP who doesn't even recognize the fact that Doer won't even acknowledge a bill that has a real ability to make a difference on poverty.

If Harper believes the bill is lacking thing, make amendments or introduce a new bill! What is the wait? The NDP have been in power a long time in Manitoba. It is ridiculous that the Opposition should have to take the lead on a bill that is close to the NDP hearts.

Well they just came out with a poverty plan it is called All Aboard; Manitoba's Poverty Reduction Strategy it was released less then a month ago. Maybe you can give the NDP government's plan which came out a month ago time to work before you talk about how they have no plan? No thats ok I expect that from the Liberals.

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Well they just came out with a poverty plan it is called All Aboard; Manitoba's Poverty Reduction Strategy it was released less then a month ago. Maybe you can give the NDP government's plan which came out a month ago time to work before you talk about how they have no plan? No thats ok I expect that from the Liberals.

Maybe the NDP could support legislation that even most left supporting groups like Policy Alternatives support. Most are baffled by the NDP's reticence on this and several other issues.

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Maybe the NDP could support legislation that even most left supporting groups like Policy Alternatives support. Most are baffled by the NDP's reticence on this and several other issues.

Maybe they have a plan have published that plan last month and see legislation on making a plan as step backwards. Maybe they can start implementing the plan they already have and haven't tried yet instead of going back to the drawing board and creating a new plan so the Liberals can claim victory because they were too late on action.

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Maybe they have a plan have published that plan last month and see legislation on making a plan as step backwards. Maybe they can start implementing the plan they already have and haven't tried yet instead of going back to the drawing board and creating a new plan so the Liberals can claim victory because they were too late on action.

That's a lot of maybes and no indication of when they plan to act. Manitoba legislative sessions are short under the NDP. Always have been. No legislation means no rule of law over activity and usually no oversight. The fact that many independent observers are baffled by the NDP's actions on this and other issues speaks volumes.

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That's a lot of maybes and no indication of when they plan to act. Manitoba legislative sessions are short under the NDP. Always have been. No legislation means no rule of law over activity and usually no oversight. The fact that many independent observers are baffled by the NDP's actions on this and other issues speaks volumes.

You are right let's get rid of the poverty action plan the NDP spent years making consulting with over 70 organizations and thousands of people so we can start from the beginning so the Liberals can claim they came up with the idea. The problem is the NDP has a plan, and the published it when the Liberals started their "we need a plan" rabble. Come on let the anti poverty plan work instead of going back to the drawing board on this one. Sorry your party was too late.

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You are right let's get rid of the poverty action plan the NDP spent years making consulting with over 70 organizations and thousands of people so we can start from the beginning so the Liberals can claim they came up with the idea. The problem is the NDP has a plan, and the published it when the Liberals started their "we need a plan" rabble. Come on let the anti poverty plan work instead of going back to the drawing board on this one. Sorry your party was too late.

What utter BS. The NDP showed no indication of when they were going to do anything and there are still no metrics in place to track poverty work as there is in the legislation. As I said, First Nations and poverty groups are still scratching their heads about why the NDP is resistant to the legislation. It isn't like they're opposed. Only the NDP is opposed.

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What utter BS. The NDP showed no indication of when they were going to do anything and there are still no metrics in place to track poverty work as there is in the legislation. As I said, First Nations and poverty groups are still scratching their heads about why the NDP is resistant to the legislation. It isn't like they're opposed. Only the NDP is opposed.

We Have a plan it is called All Aboard; Manitoba's Poverty Reduction Strategy it was published last month. Now you and the Liberals want to go backward and come up with a new one. Sorry the NDP beat you to the punch the Liberals are late and you are mad because of it.

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We Have a plan it is called All Aboard; Manitoba's Poverty Reduction Strategy it was published last month. Now you and the Liberals want to go backward and come up with a new one. Sorry the NDP beat you to the punch the Liberals are late and you are mad because of it.

No matter how many times you shout that it is the best, it doesn't mean that actual groups who work on poverty issues aren't questioning why Doer doesn't support legislation that they support. As I said, they are baffled by it and the Policy Alternatives group that doesn't usually criticize them is doing so now. Are they Liberals too?

Edited by jdobbin
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No matter how many times you shout that it is the best, it doesn't mean that actual groups who work on poverty issues aren't questioning why Doer doesn't support legislation that they support. As I said, they are baffled by it and the Policy Alternatives group that doesn't usually criticize them is doing so now. Are they Liberals too?

You can please some of the people some of the time. Fact remains the NDP are taking this issue to heart. Fact remains since the NDP took charge of Manitoba "Manitoba’s child poverty rate has decreased by 40 per cent". Those are facts I am sorry we can't go back spend another year making a Liberal plan but if they want to set out a plan of action I don't think anyone will stop them however the Manitoba NDP are full speed a head and have a pretty good record since being in power on this issue.

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You can please some of the people some of the time. Fact remains the NDP are taking this issue to heart. Fact remains since the NDP took charge of Manitoba "Manitoba’s child poverty rate has decreased by 40 per cent". Those are facts I am sorry we can't go back spend another year making a Liberal plan but if they want to set out a plan of action I don't think anyone will stop them however the Manitoba NDP are full speed a head and have a pretty good record since being in power on this issue.

And yet still confuse people who are generally their allies. That's a fact too.

As for your taking of "facts" from the NDP news release, they don't indicate just how high poverty rates are above the national average.

http://www.policyalternatives.ca/~ASSETS/D...port_052809.pdf

After so many years in power, the child poverty rates in Manitoba are generally the poorest in Canada. The great improvement the NDP points to is still at 1980 levels and higher than national rates. It is a disgrace.

The criticism of the NDP plan is this:

http://www.makepovertyhistory.ca/en/povert...manitoba/action

But the plan doesn't commit to specific timelines and targets to reduce poverty, nor does it ask for significant input from community groups or those most affected by poverty.

It is for this reason that various poverty groups support the Liberal initiated legislation.

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This isn't a fight the liberals will win. The NDP in Manitoba just last month committed 212 million to fighting poverty although the Liberals want all that to stop so we can go back and come up with a new plan. No thank you, the NDP have been making a plan over the last year and are starting to put into effect. Your guys missed the boat.

Edited by punked
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This isn't a fight the liberals will win. The NDP in Manitoba just last month committed 212 million to fighting poverty although the Liberals want all that to stop so we can go back and come up with a new plan. No thank you, the NDP have been making a plan over the last year and are starting to put into effect. Your guys missed the boat.

The Liberals did not want it to stop. Stop the lies. They wanted the same thing as the Policy Alternatives groups wanted: accountability and legislation.

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The Liberals did not want it to stop. Stop the lies. They wanted the same thing as the Policy Alternatives groups wanted: accountability and legislation.

Bill 204 would make so you have to go back and write a new plan. We have a plan, it consulted over 70 organization and thousands of people. It has committed 212 million, has priorities lowering child poverty, is committed to create more affordable housing (ps this is the thing the federal LIBERALS killed in the 90's remember?), making programs more accessible, and education and training. There is no point in going back and starting a new becuase the Liberals want them too. Sorry you are wrong on this issue.

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Bill 204 would make so you have to go back and write a new plan. We have a plan, it consulted over 70 organization and thousands of people. It has committed 212 million, has priorities lowering child poverty, is committed to create more affordable housing (ps this is the thing the federal LIBERALS killed in the 90's remember?), making programs more accessible, and education and training. There is no point in going back and starting a new becuase the Liberals want them too. Sorry you are wrong on this issue.

What do you mean we? Are you a provincial NDP member in Manitoba?

The consultations you talk about are being widely ridiculed by people who actually work to fight poverty. Who are the provincial NDP trying to kid?

The NDP don't have a plan. They have no way to track the money, have oversight of it and did not do enough consulting. This is why many poverty organizations are saying they should support the legislation.

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Too bad the Manitoba NDP is doing so little to help solve the poverty problem....

There are almost no housing units in Manitoba. The poor are on the street in growing numbers. The vacancy rate is near zero. It has been that way almost the entire time the NDP have been in power and it won't change with their present policies and so little housing.

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There are almost no housing units in Manitoba. The poor are on the street in growing numbers. The vacancy rate is near zero. It has been that way almost the entire time the NDP have been in power and it won't change with their present policies and so little housing.

That is why the NDP committed 200 million building housing which it would not have too if the Federal Liberals did not scrap the affordable housing plan in the 90's.

See one minute you are saying the NDP should stop the new plan which they just came out with combat poverty, and committed 212 million to the problem so they can come up with a new plan that the liberals can claim credit for. The next minute you are saying "there isn't enough being done fast enough" We get it anything you can say to make them look bad. They eat babies we get it already.

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There is almost no housing in Manitoba....but that's because we've been booming. The NDP is working on it....just like I'm sure the Liberals would be if they ever had a hope in hell of forming government.

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As liberals mature they become conservatives...as NDPers mature they become old hippies with poney tails carring around a beaten up copy of and irrelivant manifesto...kind of like those old guys you see back in 1988 with the grey Elvis hair cuts. In the end we will all be old and we will all need money and mercy - and it won't matter what party your old bag of bones belongs too.

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There is almost no housing in Manitoba....but that's because we've been booming. The NDP is working on it....just like I'm sure the Liberals would be if they ever had a hope in hell of forming government.

That is not the reason why apartments are impossible to get. They being converted to condos, there are fewer built and the ones that are renovated are too expensive for the poor.

Alberta and Saskatchewan have had boom times as well and they have more housing than Manitoba.

The NDP has not been working on it very hard as is demonstrated in the articles I have outlined in this thread. Poverty groups support the Liberal legislation.

The NDP doesn't. Why?

Edited by jdobbin
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That is why the NDP committed 200 million building housing which it would not have too if the Federal Liberals did not scrap the affordable housing plan in the 90's.

The NDP have been in power a long time and one of the main reasons for the housing shortage is their stance on rent controls.

See one minute you are saying the NDP should stop the new plan which they just came out with combat poverty, and committed 212 million to the problem so they can come up with a new plan that the liberals can claim credit for. The next minute you are saying "there isn't enough being done fast enough" We get it anything you can say to make them look bad. They eat babies we get it already.

The Liberals don't oppose the spending on housing. They and poverty groups are saying it isn't enough. The legislation covers a lot more.

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Left and right have merged. The NDP was incrimentally overwhelmed...as manufacturing became non-existant in north america - there was no more cause to fight for...NDP was the blue collar working man's party..there is no blue collar to speak off - Layton has learned that money makes the world go round - not ideolgy...now he waits at the masters table for a crumb...bottom line is that socialist are not very skilled economically and Layton is an old dog who has lost his confidence because he can not learn a new trick.

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