2009 Tax Freedom Day

[Hydraboss]

Income tax is an incentive to bestow the work/investment on those most happy to do it.

Could you please explain how income tax is an incentive on any planet in this universe? Tax, by nature, is the taking of something from someone. While I don't dispute the need for some taxation, I fail to see how this could be the basis for incentive rather than something we have to live with (suffer through). Your statement has me intrigued.

[benny]

Could you please explain how income tax is an incentive on any planet in this universe? Tax, by nature, is the taking of something from someone. While I don't dispute the need for some taxation, I fail to see how this could be the basis for incentive rather than something we have to live with (suffer through). Your statement has me intrigued.

Tax is an incentive to avoid doing the action that is subject to this tax. An economy can become more efficient when lesser productive persons are "taxed out" of workplaces.

[Hydraboss]

Tax is an incentive to avoid doing the action that is subject to this tax. An economy can become more efficient when lesser productive persons are "taxed out" of workplaces.

The "action" subject to tax is income from working. Therefore, you state that tax is an incentive to avoid "working". Thus, a disincentive. While individual companies may become more productive by "lazy" workers being "taxed out" of the system (which I still don't understand in your terms), society in general is no further ahead as these same people will then be dependant on the social safety net.

You seem to be making the case that taxes are detrimental to production in society.

[benny]

The "action" subject to tax is income from working. Therefore, you state that tax is an incentive to avoid "working". Thus, a disincentive. While individual companies may become more productive by "lazy" workers being "taxed out" of the system (which I still don't understand in your terms), society in general is no further ahead as these same people will then be dependant on the social safety net.

You seem to be making the case that taxes are detrimental to production in society.

Work is detrimental to production in society when, for example, workers feel threatened by technological changes.

[Hydraboss]

Work is detrimental to production in society when, for example, workers feel threatened by technological changes.

You're not making sense benny. Either taxes encourage people to work, or they discourage them.

Which is it?

[benny]

You're not making sense benny. Either taxes encourage people to work, or they discourage them.

Which is it?

Post #77: "Tax is an incentive to avoid doing the action that is subject to this tax."

[Hydraboss]

Post #77: "Tax is an incentive to avoid doing the action that is subject to this tax."

Maybe my question wasn't clear enough.

Taxes good? Taxes bad? Which one make people work more?

[benny]

Maybe my question wasn't clear enough.

Taxes good? Taxes bad? Which one make people work more?

By definition, an economy is working better to work less.

[Hydraboss]

By definition, an economy is working better to work less.

So, from a quality of life point of view working less is better. Agreed.

So, from a financial standpoint working more is better. Agreed.

So, if taxes don't encourage extra work, quality of life is better but financial success is not.

I disagree. Money is required in this society to lease happiness (can't buy it, right?), so taxes need to be lowered to give incentive to work more and succeed.

[benny]

So, from a quality of life point of view working less is better. Agreed.

So, from a financial standpoint working more is better. Agreed.

So, if taxes don't encourage extra work, quality of life is better but financial success is not.

I disagree. Money is required in this society to lease happiness (can't buy it, right?), so taxes need to be lowered to give incentive to work more and succeed.

Success /happiness is directly linked to leisure time/activities.

[Hydraboss]

Success /happiness is directly linked to leisure time/activities.

...which you have to be able to afford (either the cost of the activity, the cost of being away from work, or both).

[benny]

...which you have to be able to afford (either the cost of the activity, the cost of being away from work, or both).

By definition, with economies/savings more become affordable.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

By definition, with economies/savings more become affordable.

The opposite is true of taxes..........they are becoming more expensive not more affordable.

[Smallc]

There is no evidence that the above statment is true. There was actually a graph that I saw (wich I can't find now) that said the exact opposite.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

There is no evidence that the above statment is true. There was actually a graph that I saw (wich I can't find now) that said the exact opposite.

A graph that said what?

Most Canadians tend to disagree with you. http://www.taxes.ca/blog/archives/2008/02/...dians_say_p.php

[Smallc]

A graph that showed that as a percentage of GDP, the taxes we pay have decreased. Until 1997, these taxes were increasing, but as of today, the trend has been reversed. We pay less tax than we have in a log time.

Edited June 9, 2009 by Smallc

[Smallc]

http://www.arts.yorku.ca/econ/lagerloef/HP...n2450/Taxes.pdf

[Jerry J. Fortin]

A graph that showed that as a percentage of GDP, the taxes we pay have decreased. Until 1997, these taxes were increasing, but as of today, the trend has been reversed. We pay less tax than we have in a log time.

Apples and oranges! The GDP going up or down has nothing to do with the rates of taxation. It is a statistical approach that can be made to say anything you want. That is a rather shallow view of things, you need to examine the whole thing!

[Smallc]

As our economy is getting larger, the amount of taxes we pay as a oercentage are decreasing. It isn't an exercise in statistics. Canadian wages are rising and taxes are falling. It's that simple.

[benny]

The opposite is true of taxes..........they are becoming more expensive not more affordable.

Like if taxes were consumer products/services!

[Jerry J. Fortin]

As our economy is getting larger, the amount of taxes we pay as a oercentage are decreasing. It isn't an exercise in statistics. Canadian wages are rising and taxes are falling. It's that simple.

It is not simple at all. The relationship between GDP and taxation that you submit exists, links citizens to revenues in a manner that simply does not compute. GDP is the value of goods and services produced whereas the level of taxation produces a government revenue stream. How do you join these two things together and suggest that a rise of one proves a decline in the other?

[benny]

It is not simple at all. The relationship between GDP and taxation that you submit exists, links citizens to revenues in a manner that simply does not compute. GDP is the value of goods and services produced whereas the level of taxation produces a government revenue stream. How do you join these two things together and suggest that a rise of one proves a decline in the other?

Tax has to be linked only to the effort/sacrifice needed to earn what is taxed.

[Smallc]

How do you join these two things together and suggest that a rise of one proves a decline in the other?

Because if we are paying less tax as a percentage of our production, we can better afford the tax.

[benny]

Because if we are paying less tax as a percentage of our production, we can better afford the tax.

We can better afford the tax only when production necessitates fewer efforts/sacrifices.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Because if we are paying less tax as a percentage of our production, we can better afford the tax.

You are linking individual taxes and national production, that doesn't work. According to you we should be taxed more when the economy is good and taxed less when the economy is bad. So I should be paying less taxes this year than last. You do realize that there are three distinct levels of taxation and each are constitutionally able to levy these damned things anyway they want. Keeping in mind how much is taken in from the "sin" taxes, and lotteries, they are all variable with the exception of property taxes which are the purview of municipalities.

You are assuming that the citizens are sharing in the productive gains or increased profits realized through productive efforts when you say "Because if we are paying less tax as a percentage of our production, we can better afford the tax." GDP is not a calculation of individual or corporate income by any stretch of the imagination, it is simply a defined value of the cost of all goods and services produced within a nation. There is no measure of profit involved in that calculation at all.

Edited June 9, 2009 by Jerry J. Fortin