Toews accuses Grits of bashing unilingual citizens

[CANADIEN]

No, it is more like Quebec politicians (including you) engage in continual political disorder utilzing multiculturalism in order to devalue the English speaking culture and it's language.

So now I am a politician... and from Quebec :lol:

You are not only laughing at me but all English speaking Canadians and their society.

You are getting even more clueless by the posting.

And obviously other Canadians are not equal to French speaking Canadians in Quebec

You got something almost right for once.

and require their own English version of the Charter of the French Language.

English translation. It's bad when it's done in French, it's good when it's done in English.

And you wonder why I know you're clueless.

Edited May 12, 2009 by CANADIEN

[Leafless]

So now I am a politician... and from Quebec

It reads 'including you' implying along with Quebec politicans. It does not read that you are a Quebec politician.

Even though, you say, are from Ontario really means little.

You are a Quebec propagandist upholding Quebec ideologies with the main purpose to destroy the importance of the the majority English language and it's culture.

You are getting even more clueless by the posting.

Nope.

Official multiculturalism and official languages and a discriminatory charter proves you and Quebec are indeed laughing at majority English speaking Canadians.

English translation. It's bad when it's done in French, it's good when it's done in English.

No one said anything of the sort.

With you being a believer in EQUALITY, then the English speaking provinces harbouring their own English charter should be perfectly acceptable.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Leafless

[CANADIEN]

It reads 'including you' implying along with Quebec politicans. It does not read that you are a Quebec politician.

I guess I have to brush up oon my Leaflish then.

You are a Quebec propagandist upholding Quebec ideologies with the main purpose to destroy the importance of the the majority English language and it's culture.

And how many have I laughed at that prime example of cluelessness on your part? You will never get it.

Official multiculturalism and official languages and a ]non-discriminatory charter proves )...)

you do not get it.

No one said anything of the sort.

Making reference to YOUR statements on how bad Quebec-language laws are, clamouring for Ontario to have giving to English to status that french has in Quebec. What is bad when it favours French becomes good when it favours English.

But not to worry, I know you have a hard time understanding your own non-sense.

[lictor616]

so dumb,

its really maddening to read your ad hominem gutter arguing canadien.... try throwing in an argument from time to time between your simple rejections and "your just clueless" accusations.

why are you in a poltiical forum if all you want to do is reject and persnally attack?

[CANADIEN]

so dumb,

its really maddening to read your ad hominem gutter arguing canadien.... try throwing in an argument from time to time between your simple rejections and "your just clueless" accusations.

why are you in a poltiical forum if all you want to do is reject and persnally attack?

You have something to say on the topic of the thread, or you are just venting your frustration because I don't agree with your cr*p?

I have posted in threads on language rights for over a year, and made my position clear. And yes, people who keep writing over and over again things like "the English language is threatened in Ontario" don't have a clue.

Now, if you have an opinion on language rights in Canada, feel free to express it.

[lictor616]

You have something to say on the topic of the thread, or you are just venting your frustration because I don't agree with your cr*p?

I have posted in threads on language rights for over a year, and made my position clear. And yes, people who keep writing over and over again things like "the English language is threatened in Ontario" don't have a clue.

Now, if you have an opinion on language rights in Canada, feel free to express it.

The English language IS being attacked... no doubt about that... not just in ontario... have you been out west? Richmond has some CHINESE ONLY ATM machines.... and ALL atms in Vancouver are in English Cantonese and Mandarin.

As the Country diversifies it LOOSES and dilutes its founding stocks along with their language, culture and ethnicity or race. duh!

That english is in comparative standards "better off" then "le francais jouale de BS" spoken in Québec is true... but BOTH are suffering and limping.

French in Québec is on a course towards extinction. In the Downtown area in montreal the most spoken language is English... Second: ARAB, third French ... and that will be the fate of Quebec-- NATION WIDE VERY SOON---if something is not done.

But as long as idiot Bloc "ti-counes" continue to believe their enemy is fellow Euro Canadians and Anglo canadians, Quebec will be extinct and will no longer be "one people, one language, one province"... they'll be a phony, awkward mixture of every known ethnicity... a big steaming pile of NOTHING... no Identity, no culture... just masses of brown, franglish, Arab, Creole speaking devolved farragos that will be incomprehensible to everyone including themselves.

As long as us Québecois continue to think that we can preserve our culture and language by importing 38 000 third worlders (even encouraging them to keep THEIR LANGUAGE AND THEIR CULTURE) a year into our big cities... we are lost. As long as multiculturalism and immigration is kept up... our numbers dwindle, and our culture crumbles.

No immigrant with half a brain wants to speak French over english... because "dat beez were da welfare moneyz be ats yo"

and no immigrant comes here respecting Quebecois, much less their culture... arabs still mock us and call us sub human lumberjacks...

stop moaning and complaining at Ontarians... when clearly they,re not the ones coming here and displacing our language, culture and influence...

"Jamais comme aujourd’hui les peuples n’ont eu la sensation d’être menés par les événements. Jamais ils n’ont été plus impuissants, plus volontairement impuissants devant eux. . . . Et c’est bien ce qui me parait le plus tragique dans l’aspect du monde d'aujourd'hui: on n’y voit qu’une civilisation qui tombe et la nuit qui approche."

—Pierre Loewel

[CANADIEN]

The English language IS being attacked... no doubt about that... not just in ontario... have you been out west? Richmond has some CHINESE ONLY ATM machines

Anybody in Richmond can confirm that one?

.... and ALL atms in Vancouver are in English Cantonese and Mandarin.

So what? They are in English. You claim to value freedom of expression... It includes that too.

French in Québec is on a course towards extinction.

It has survived 250 years of being surrunded by English-speaking communities... the Durham Report... econnnomic dominance... It's presence has not been affected by succssive waves of immigrants from Greece, Italy, Portugal, etc. French is still spoken in Manitoba, New Brunswick, Ontario, etc. despite generations of it being banned from the schools and the government offices. French is still alive and well in Quebec, and its days are not numbered... unlike the "what is different is dangerous" mentality.

In the Downtown area in montreal the most spoken language is English... Second: ARAB, third French

You have numbers to back that up, oooor it's just anecdotal evidence? I don't go to Montreal that often, mind you, but I have rarely had any problem being served in French, and I hear French, then English a lot more often that I hear Arab.

But as long as idiot Bloc "ti-counes" continue to believe their enemy is fellow Euro Canadians and Anglo canadians

There is an enemy? I know there's the war on terror, but something tells me that's not what you're talking about.

[lictor616]

So what? They are in English. You claim to value freedom of expression... It includes that too.

Wow hopefully you're joking about ATM language being about freedom of expression right? or are you this much of a dunderhead?

[lictor616]

It has survived 250 years of being surrunded by English-speaking communities... the Durham Report... econnnomic dominance... It's presence has not been affected by succssive waves of immigrants from Greece, Italy, Portugal, etc. French is still spoken in Manitoba, New Brunswick, Ontario, etc. despite generations of it being banned from the schools and the government offices. French is still alive and well in Quebec, and its days are not numbered... unlike the "what is different is dangerous" mentality.

The Office de La Langue Francaise, routinely issues reports of audited businesses made to account for their bi-ligual service, and at least 29.5% of the businesses in the downtown area, had english only clerks.. (http://www.olf.gouv.qc.ca/francisation/respect/statistiques/stat20052006.html)

I'm sure you've heard about the Journalist (whose name escapes my memory at the moment) who was perfectly bilingual and applied for 4 jobs in the restaurant industry and cafés in the downtown area back in 2007 telling her employers that she spoke only english... she was hired for all jobs and worked there with no pressure.

Countless other reports like these surface now and then... you've never heard of this?

Of course the greeks, Italians, Portuguese came here (as EUROPEANS- a crucial stipulation) and adapted very well (duh- the Founding French were also Europeans and very similar in their culture and mannerisms to all of these people). But you're quite wrong to say it hasn't impacted the language, Portuguese are the most likely to speak french and Portuguese, while Greeks tends to speak English and Greek. And these additions have lessened the relative number of Quebec French speakers.

http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/d...;CSDFilter=5000

The downtown area Is populated with about 130 000 Arabic speaking peoples, who have a smattering of french as a second and most often third language (about 31% according to CH global channel do not speak french at all) many of these people live and work in the down town area which makes Arabic dialects for a 3rd or 4th most spoken language... (correct that- probably not second)

Edited May 13, 2009 by lictor616

[M.Dancer]

The downtown area Is populated with about 130 000 Arabic speaking peoples

Lebanese 53,455 - A safe assumption is most a french speaking marronites.

Of course this census is for all of the Montreal CMA, which includes Laval, Longueuil, Châteauguay and about 5 other cities...and not the "downtown" as he claims.

We are forced to chose between Lictor being purposely dishonest or just stupid.

[M.Dancer]

The downtown area Is populated with about 130 000 Arabic speaking peoples,

Another clanger....in all of the Montreal CMA there are 3.1% whose mother tongue is arabic.

That means there are 120,000 in the whole region....not downtown...the whole region.

and while I'm at it....Lictor makes another claim and links the Office de la langue francias site to back it up...no suprises there is nothing on the page he linked to to back up his claim....

same old same old nonsense...

[Leafless]

Lebanese 53,455 - A safe assumption is most a french speaking marronites.

You must mean Maronites.

If Maronites speak French it is because of France and not because of French influence in Quebec.

Although Arabic is the official language of Lebanon, many Maronites also speak French. Syriac is used for the church liturgy, but Maronites have used Arabic for church records since their beginnings.

http://www.everyculture.com/wc/Japan-to-Mali/Maronites.html

We all know Quebec picks and chooses it's immigrants which is a luxury not available to other provinces in Canada.

Quebec gives preference to candidates from French speaking nations.

[M.Dancer]

You must mean Maronites.

If Maronites speak French it is because of France and not because of French influence in Quebec.

In any case, where they acquired their French is irrelevant, the fact they speak it is not.

[CANADIEN]

Wow hopefully you're joking about ATM language being about freedom of expression right? or are you this much of a dunderhead?

Actually, not one bit. As far as I concerned, as long as I get services in the lnaugage I want, they are free to offer them in any other language they see fit.

[CANADIEN]

I'm sure you've heard about the Journalist (whose name escapes my memory at the moment) who was perfectly bilingual and applied for 4 jobs in the restaurant industry and cafés in the downtown area back in 2007 telling her employers that she spoke only english... she was hired for all jobs and worked there with no pressure.

Countless other reports like these surface now and then... you've never heard of this?

And there is plenty of cases of French-speaking people in Montreal who get jobs with little or no English language skills. You don't want to hear about it.

Portuguese are the most likely to speak french and Portuguese, while Greeks tends to speak English and Greek. And these additions have lessened the relative number of Quebec French speakers.

People speak French and another language. French is being threatened.

[Leafless]

In any case, where they acquired their French is irrelevant, the fact they speak it is not.

It is relevant, as by definiton they are not Francophones, but are rather bilingual Canadians.

I would assume this is the last thing 'officially French Quebec' would want is the devaluation of their own French language.

This is a province that never signed the constitution, utilized the 'notwithstanding clause', amended the constituion they never signed, enforced their own French language charter, has no bilingual policies and is the only province to date to implement French as their official language.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Leafless

[M.Dancer]

It is relevant, as by definiton they are not Francophones, but are rather bilingual Canadians.

I believe that the question of your arthritic grasp of the english language and your erroneous definition of francophone was put to bed last year.

If their mother tongue is french, they are francopones. If their mothern tongue is neither french nor english, they are allophones...

[Leafless]

I believe that the question of your arthritic grasp of the english language and your erroneous definition of francophone was put to bed last year.

If their mother tongue is french, they are francopones. If their mothern tongue is neither french nor english, they are allophones...

Ha-ha-ha.

And talk about your arthritic grasp of not being able to comprehend.

Have it your way then.

Quebec sold out to allophones.

This really demonstrates the hate Quebec has for English Canada.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Leafless

[M.Dancer]

Quebec sold out to allophones.

This really demonstrates the hate Quebec has for English Canada.

I wold ask you to explain but I'm having my quota of incoherent babblings filled by Benny.

[Leafless]

I wold ask you to explain but I'm having my quota of incoherent babblings filled by Benny.

It is not my fault you are clueless and further intellectually uninclined if you have even bothered to read Benny's incoherrent babblings.

[CANADIEN]

It is relevant, as by definiton they are not Francophones, but are rather bilingual Canadians.

:lol:

This is a province that (...)amended the constituion they never signed

And the text of that alleged amend ment is?

(...)and is the only province to date to implement French as their official language.

besides New Brunswick, which has French and English as its official languages.

[CANADIEN]

Quebec sold out to allophones.

This really demonstrates the hate Quebec has for English Canada.

:lol:

[lictor616]

:lol:

ain,t diversity wounderful canadien?

Look at how much of a strength LINGUISTIC diveristy alone is for Canada!!!

ah yes the incalculable fruits of diversity... yum yum yum..

[Leafless]

:lol:

Laughing at the fact Francophones sold out their exclusive culture for English jobs in Ontario and thus became bilingual Canadians.

Yep, Francophones really know how to protect their language.

And the text of that alleged amend ment is?

This should be close enough:

(April, 1997) The PQ consistently states they do not "recognize" the Constitution of Canada. This is convenient for them, because it means that they need not follow the constitutional laws of Canada as other provinces do.

Section 93 of the Constitution Act, 1867 protects religious denominational schools in Quebec, and other provinces.

The secessionist government in Quebec wishes to re-align their school board system along linguistic lines - to modernize it and presumably to save money. That requires revocation of guarantees found in the Constitution of Canada.

The change would be made under the amending formula found in section 43 of the Constitution Act 1982. That section allows a bilateral amendment, one between the federal government and only the province concerned.

We encourage you to think about this, as you read the articles below: if they need an amendment for linguistic school boards, doesn't it follow that they'd need other amendments for all the sections they would violate if they tried to separate unilaterally?

21

April,

1997 Ottawa set to overhaul Quebec school system

Province sought constitutional amendment

By Edison Stewart, Toronto Star Ottawa Bureau

In a move that has clearly embarrassed some separatists, Ottawa is acting on Quebec's request for a constitutional amendment overhauling the province's schools.

Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Stéphane Dion said yesterday the measure is proof the Constitution is not the straitjacket separatists claim it to be.

Moreover, it shows the controversial package of constitutional reforms Quebec opposed in 1982 - and uses today as an argument for separation - is actually working to Quebec's benefit, Dion told the House of Commons.

Instead of asking Great Britain to amend the Constitution, the change only requires the approval of Parliament and the Quebec National Assembly, he said.

Quebec approved the change April 15. Dion launched the process a week later.

The change would remove the constitutional protection for religious school boards in Quebec. They would be replaced by boards based on language.

It will be some time before the change can be approved federally.

PQ SPUTTERING

An election is expected to be called within days and Prime Minister Jean Chrétien noted yesterday the Senate held up a similar change for Newfoundland for six months.

But Chrétien and Dion vowed Ottawa will ultimately deliver.

The separatist Bloc Québécois was left sputtering that the federal government isn't acting fast enough.

Bloc critic Michel Bellehumeur accused the federal Liberals of dragging their feet to allow opponents of the change to organize "on the back of Quebec."

But the Montreal newspaper La Presse reported yesterday Bloc MPs were visibly happy the amendment will not be passed before Quebecers go to the polls.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

21

April,

1997 Tables turned: PQ seeks C-word change

Linguistic school plan in Quebec prompts de facto recognition of Constitution

By Terrance Wills, The Montreal Gazette

Without the 1982 Constitution Act it so despises, the separatist Quebec government would have to petition the British Parliament to replace religious school boards with a French-English system, Stéphane Dion told Parliament yesterday.

The intergovernmental affairs minister introduced a resolution to amend the Constitution as sought by Quebec to permit linguistic boards.

The change would be made under the 1982 Constitution Act that allows a bilateral amendment, one between the federal government and only the province concerned.

Both Liberal and Reform MPs couldn't resist taking a poke at Premier Lucien Bouchard and his Parti Québécois government for their inconsistency in rejecting the 1982 Constitution Act while seeking an amendment under it.

"I'm very pleased, and somewhat surprised, that this request to change the Constitution should come from a legislature which denies the Constitution's validity," Reform MP Chuck Strahl told the House of Commons.

"Although the political rhetoric from Mr. Bouchard is running high, his activities run contrary to his words, to his recognition of the Constitution as the rule of law in this country. We in the Reform party wish he'd make a public commitment to abide by the Constitution in the question of the sovereignty of Quebec."

Mr. Dion said the Quebec government's request shows that "the Parliament of Canada is also the Parliament for Quebecers.

"Federal institutions are also institutions for Quebecers. All of Canada also belongs to all Quebecers."

Mr. Dion made it clear that the federal government favours the change after the unanimous vote in Quebec's National Assembly, which, he said, points to the consensus in the province.

Parliament however, will hold public hearings -- something the separatist government did not do.

That means there is no chance the resolution will pass before the expected election call this weekend.

[ ... ] Anglophone rights groups such as Alliance Quebec have raised concerns that the resolution, in doing way with the constitutional protection of Catholic and Protestant school boards, could imperil English-language education in Quebec.

This minority-rights issue figured prominently in the House of Commons debate yesterday.

"The proposed amendment would not weaken the constitutional rights of the anglophone minority," Mr. Dion said. "The control and management of linguistic school organization are, in fact, guaranteed by the case law flowing from Section 23 of the Charter (of Rights of 1982) and not from section 93."

But Mr. Strahl was not sanguine that the change would protect minority rights.

"The record is not very good in Quebec from the separatist government in some of the statements they've made," Mr. Stahl said. "They've blamed ethnic minorities and different people for everything from unemployment to you name it."

However, Bloc Québécois MP Pierrette Venne said the termination of religious boards would not undermine anglophone rights.

"Section 93 has nothing to do with the right of the anglophone minority," she said. "It simply relates to the privileges granted to two groups on the basis of their religion."

UPDATE:

Just before the closing of the Quebec provincial legislature in the spring of 1997, the PQ and Liberal parties came to a deal over the amendment, and the Bill was passed. The deal protects English minorities, and led to the resignation of some secessionists in the Montreal area.

Two secessionist PQ cabinet ministers, Pauline Marois and Jacques Brassard, testified before a parliamentary committee in Ottawa on behalf of the amendment in November, 1997.

The Amendment passed in the House of Commons in November, 1997, after a free vote.

besides New Brunswick, which has French and English as its official languages.

And NB is so official it has no English immersion for the many French children who cannot speak English.

Bilingual graduates are also a flop in NB.

The Liberal government says it wants 70 per cent of students to be bilingual by 2012. At the moment, only a fraction of graduating students have proficiency in French.

“If we are to be leaders in bilingual education, then it is incumbent upon us to choose programs that the evidence shows make people bilingual,” Lamrock said. “I like the idea of teaching it (French) to everybody to the best of our ability.”

The report’s authors, Patricia Lee and Jim Croll, say the current system for French second-language education is a failure. In the basic core program, where most New Brunswick students are educated, only 28 of 55,000 students reached the provincial standard of intermediate, oral proficiency in French last year — a rate of .68 per cent.

Croll said that works out to a staggering cost of $367,000 per child. “Clearly, the core program is not doing very well,” he said. Croll and Lee also found major fault with the early immersion program, in which children are taught exclusively in French beginning in kindergarten or Grade 1.

http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008...ngual-students/

Edited May 16, 2009 by Leafless

[Leafless]

:lol:

And I laugh at the fact terrorist/separatist Quebec ideolgies were adopted by the Liberals and made into several policies including the Charter in FREE and DEMOCRATIC Canada.

Good old Mr. Trudeau who declared Canada officially bilingual and transfered 32,000 public service jobs from Ottawa to Hull, Quebec, from 1970 to 1982.

This is the same Mr. Trudeau who in 1953 was banned from entering the U.S. because of his communist affiliations.

And in 1956 Pierre Trudeau led a communist delegation to Peking for a Red Victory celebration.