Tories court Bloc and NDP in bid to hold onto power

[jdobbin]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe has been pushing for a tax-harmonization deal with Ottawa and wants improvements to the EI system. It's expected that Duceppe will lay out his formal demands on Thursday.

On Wednesday, Parliament witnessed a bizarre move when the Conservatives voted in favour of a Bloc motion that transfers $2.6 billion to Quebec and allows the province to administer its own sales tax.

Meanwhile, NDP Leader Jack Layton appears open to the idea of working with the Tories. However, his support is contingent on the condition that Ottawa deliver EI reform, provide stricter credit card regulations and increase pension protection.

I wonder how that will play in the west? Billions to Quebec?

How about Duceppe as Finance Minister and Layton as Health Minister?

Will Harper form a coalition?

[Smallc]

If they want to harmonize the tax, shouldn't the feds be making them accept the HST?

Edited April 30, 2009 by Smallc

[capricorn]

The healthy showing by Liberals in the polls is both good and bad news for the party. It may mean the Liberals will not be able to control the timing of the next election. In fact, it looks like the Liberals may end up being the only party to want an election.

Today, the chances of a fall election fell further, and are now much closer to zero than 50 per cent.

The reason is the latest CROP poll from Quebec:

LPC - 37

BQ - 31

Cons - 15

NDP -12

For the first time since the Gomery inquiry, the Liberals are leading in Quebec, and by a healthy margin.

The Bloc is not quite in the position of the NDP, which stands to lose as many as half its seats were an election called today.

---

As a result, it is entirely possible the Liberals will be unable to engineer an election anytime in the spring or fall. If that's the case, we won't see an election until a time of the Harper government's choosing, with current thinking landing at after the Vancouver Olympics in 2010.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...Story/WBSteele/

This may just be the breathing room the Conservatives need to stay in government until the economy recovers.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Charles Anthony
merged thread; "Conservative-Bloc-NDP coalition?"

[jdobbin]

This may just be the breathing room the Conservatives need to stay in government until the economy recovers.

I already posted how the Tories are looking to move closer to the NDP and Bloc.

Today, the Tories gave a few billion to Quebec much to everyone's surprise. And I do mean people were surprised.

[capricorn]

Today, the Tories gave a few billion to Quebec much to everyone's surprise. And I do mean people were surprised.

Would people be surprised if it was the Liberal Party showering Quebec with cash?

[jdobbin]

Would people be surprised if it was the Liberal Party showering Quebec with cash?

With $3 billion that was used the way it was today, yeah, I think people would be surprised.

[Smallc]

It isn't the Liberal party doing it.

[Dave_ON]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

I wonder how that will play in the west? Billions to Quebec?

How about Duceppe as Finance Minister and Layton as Health Minister?

Will Harper form a coalition?

Interesting indeed; I find it quite amusing and almost poetic that essentially Mr. Harper has become all that he criticized Mr. Dionne for being. This could definitely give the Conservatives the breathing room they need to hold on long enough for us to see some economic recovery. But at what cost to the CPC? The amount of money they're throwing at PQ is shocking and the same can be said about ON. Obviously they're aware that without the support of these two provinces they have no chance at holding onto their minority. This won't bode well in the west at all and Harper will never regain his lost ground in Quebec. His national address against such an "unholy union" as so many conservatives are want to say will not soon be forgotten. I doubt he'll ever form an official coalition with the NDP and the BLOC but in the end official or not it will be no different then what Dionne was trying to achieve.

I think in the end this will hurt the CPC more than it helps them. They won't be able to distance themselves from what they're doing in order to placate the Bloc and the NDP. How far will Mr. Harper go to hang on to power? Mr. Layton and Mr. Duceppe smell the scent of death for the CPC and are taking full advantage in exchange for their ongoing support. It's really too bad Mr. Harper didn't realize how very weak his "strengthened minority" was in the fall of '08 as this time could have been used productively. I guess he has never heard of a former conservative PM named Joe Clark.

[August1991]

Interesting indeed; I find it quite amusing and almost poetic that essentially Mr. Harper has become all that he criticized Mr. Dionne for being.

There is a big difference between a coalition government in which the NDP has seats at the cabinet table and the coalition government relies criticallly on the BQ to stay in office and then the Tories' current situation: they merely have to slice and dice to get one of three parties to agree to a confidence vote.

That won't be too hard for Harper since, given recent polls, neither the NDP nor the Bloc are in any hurry to face the electorate. The Bloc would lose seats in Quebec and more seriously, see its main option lose credibility. Layton would not keep his large caucus. Moreover, Harper can always put the Liberals into a box so that they would have to vote in favour of the government (although I'll admit that putting the Liberals into any box is about as easy as keeping a snake in your hands).

As to the spending, you are on firmer ground. Harper/Flaherty will be tempted to start signing cheques and they'll lose their fiscal conservative base. OTOH, so far, I am impressed with how careful the two have been in comparison to the unprecedented borrow-and-spend orgy south of the border.

How far will Mr. Harper go to hang on to power?

Harper stayed in power under more difficult circumstances for almost three years before, Canada's longest minority government except King's coalition in the 1920s.

Before, I would have predicted a 2009 federal election. No longer. Harper needs the votes of only one party to stay in power and he knows how to get them.

[Dave_ON]

There is a big difference between a coalition government in which the NDP has seats at the cabinet table and the coalition government relies criticallly on the BQ to stay in office and then the Tories' current situation: they merely have to slice and dice to get one of three parties to agree to a confidence vote.

I would tend to disagree. While you are quite correct that the form is quite different, the result is really the same. It's governing from a coalition standpoint regardless of whether it is formal or not. The only difference is bringing the other party into the cabinet solidifies the agreement a great deal more than the current rag tag situation. Be that as it may Mr. Harper has clearly departed from his usual "voting with another party on an issue by issue basis is entirely different then forming a coalition." If you always pass bills presented by the opposition party so that they don't topple your government, I guess I don't see how that differs from making it official and stating it on paper that you will do so. The result is exactly the same. This is far more than issue by issue synchronicity, it's an unofficial coalition. While the Liberal, NDP coalition supported by the BLOC was ill fated and ill conceived it served the greater good. I can respect that the Liberals were up front about their intentions, the CPC however are not and the irony that they have in effect become everything they fought so desperately to prevent provides me no end of amusement.

Harper stayed in power under more difficult circumstances for almost three years before, Canada's longest minority government except King's coalition in the 1920s.

Before, I would have predicted a 2009 federal election. No longer. Harper needs the votes of only one party to stay in power and he knows how to get them.

You're right but I would purport this was not based on his skill alone. Just as with the King/Byng affair the fate of the PM in such situations rests solely in the hands of the GG. King gambled and lost, Harper gambled and won.

I would also agree about the federal election not occurring in fall '09. I've said all along that it will likely occur in the winter or spring of 2010. Harper and the CPC will only go so far, Harper is too partisan to pander to the NDP and the Bloc all the time. The grits are in too strong a position to feel the need to pander to the CPC on anything. Given enough time Mr. Harper will do something that will upset both the NDP and the Bloc and the Liberals will be there to table the no confidence motion.

[daniel]

The perennial power hungry Conservative Party of Canada better not even try to force another unnecessary election on the Canadian people or they better be prepared to be soundly defeated.

We don't want or need an election.

[SSD]

I will not accept this coalition of socialists, separatists, and Bush-ites. This is the beginning of this country breaking down. Harper has sold out and now with the Bloc, he will negotiate the secession of Quebec. With Layton, he will negotiate the government buying all the companies and regulating what individuals do for a living. With himself, he will impose that everyone convert to his brand of christianity. Goodbye Canada, it was nice knowing you. I can see it already, riots across the country opposing this (Calgary, Vancouver, Ottawa, etc.).

[daniel]

It isn't the Liberal party doing it.

We've already seen someone trying to blame the left for Harper's big spending. He'll try it again.

[Smallc]

Perhaps we should organize rallies for Canada.....

[Shakeyhands]

Perhaps we should organize rallies for Canada.....

tea bagging rallies???

[Smallc]

tea bagging rallies???

I was thinking more along the lines of the rallies that conservatives organized when the scary coalition was poised to take over.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Smallc

[daniel]

I was thinking more along the lines of the rallies that conservatives organized when the scary coalition was poised to take over.

Like outright lies about the democratic and parliamentary process and what was actually included in the coalition agreement?

[Smallc]

Like outright lies about the democratic and parliamentary process and what was actually included in the coalition agreement?

Well, we could do that too....I mean, they did, so it would only be fair....nah...Two wrongs don't make a right.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Smallc

[Oleg Bach]

NDP! ---- co-op housing and utilitrarian shmug but don't cut it. The guy is a dummie -correct me if I'm wrong but does Layton...not have an offspring serving in Afghanistan? _ if he does he don't get it...any real man would not waste or take the chances of his family line being distrubed by some road side bomb...how smart can Layton be - not very!

[normanchateau]

Billions to Quebec?

Harper just never learns from his mistakes. Remember the billions he shovelled into Quebec in 2007?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

[Oleg Bach]

Harper just never learns from his mistakes. Remember the billions he shovelled into Quebec in 2007?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

To appease those that we beat 150 years ago is like the Americans sending billions in start up cash to Japan for spinging the A bomb on them..guilt...has it's limits..Quebec was weaker then the British...and now we cry for the loser - You either win or lose in the preditorial game of life ..they lost,

[normanchateau]

To appease those that we beat 150 years ago is like the Americans sending billions in start up cash to Japan for spinging the A bomb on them..guilt...has it's limits..Quebec was weaker then the British...and now we cry for the loser - You either win or lose in the preditorial game of life ..they lost,

You don't really believe that Harper's motive is guilt, do you?

I suspect his motive is to hold power at all costs even if it means the West funnelling billions of dollars into Quebec.

[Keepitsimple]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

I wonder how that will play in the west? Billions to Quebec?

How about Duceppe as Finance Minister and Layton as Health Minister?

Will Harper form a coalition?

It's always maddening to me when it appears our government (Liberal or Conservative) is cowtowing to Quebec.....but this motion is not bizarre when the details are examined.....and it's really not the Bloc that is "demanding" the changes......there have been ongoing discussions between the Quebec Liberal government and Finance Minister Flaherty.....and if you look at the details, it makes sense - this is not a handout....businesses will be the benficiaries in Quebec - it's not a windfall to the Quebec government:

On Friday, Jérôme-Forget wrote Flaherty saying she is willing to accept his conditions for harmonization.

And aide to the minister said this means the province is ready to stop calculating its 7.5-per-cent Quebec Sales Tax on top of the federal 5-per-cent GST, raising the real tax burden to 13 per cent.

Quebec could simply set its QST rate at 8 per cent, making the combined tax 13 percent, as Ontario will do when it harmonizes its sales tax with the GST on July 1, 2010, the aide said.

“To my mind, the principal difference that persists between the QST and the GST concerns the reimbursement of business input taxes for large companies on certain goods,” Jérôme-Forget wrote in her third letter to Flaherty on the issue.

This measure applies to companies with taxable sales in Canada greater than $10 million a year on their purchases of vehicles, energy and telecommunication services.

The minister added that Quebec was willing to fully refund such business input taxes for eight years, as Ontario has agreed, at a cost to Quebec of $500 million a year.

Jérôme-Forget said there could be other tax changes, without elaborating, but in return Quebec wants a “just and fair compensation of $2.6 billion.”

In his letter to Jérôme-Forget on Thursday, Flaherty said Quebec would have to hand over collection of both the GST and the QST to the federal government, as Ontario has agreed.

Link: http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/quebec/st...html?id=1469627

Edited May 1, 2009 by Keepitsimple

[Smallc]

I still don't understand how it can be harmonized without being the HST.

[normanchateau]

....but this motion is not bizarre when the details are examined.....and it's really not the Bloc that is "demanding" the changes......there have been ongoing discussions between the Quebec Liberal government and Finance Minister Flaherty.....and if you look at the details, it makes sense - this is not a handout....

How about the billions Harper shovelled out of the rest of Canada to Quebec in 2007? Those billions were not a one time deal. They are annual. Were they also not a handout? You may recall that Duceppe voted in favour of the 2007 budget.