Alberta Employment Rate in Freefall

[Hydraboss]

This is a definite thread hijack here, but 'Alberta' is developing a serious reputation for being out-and-out obnoxious- rude, obstructive, arrogant, no pretence to either civility or rationality.... no pretence to fair play. A bit of a snarling dog, aware only of the moment... tied absolutely to the conduct/attitudes of our current federal government, particularly to the most odious, off the edge parts of it...

(This too shall pass.)

I say this not to offend, but to ask whether Albertans are aware of it, and if so, whether they cultivate it (I suspect they do. Some anyway.) , to suggest that it also invites a lot of blowback, since so much of politics is emotional and reactionary, and to wonder why it would be so cultivated? Fact is, it's running provincial credibility into the dumpster.

Molly, you are not incorrect. Alberta IS developing that outward view. Harper's people know damn well that he's not a lot more popular out here than most Liberal leaders, but the fact is he's NOT officially a Liberal and therefore will be voted for in Alberta (we're not voting for him; we're voting against Liberals).

The whole "play nice and things will change" thought process has gone out the window in large part. You would most likely find that Albertans are not "out-and-out obnoxious- rude, obstructive, arrogant, no pretence to either civility or rationality.... no pretence to fair play" as long as you are Albertan. We definitely look after our own. Other than that, all bets are off.

Do we cultivate this whole outward appearance? You bet. Even though "it's running provincial credibility into the dumpster"? Think about this: Why would we care? It has never done us any good in the past to be the silent pack-horse, so why would we continue to act that way? I know people like tango will ask for sources and cites, and he and others will deny that there are grounds for Alberta acting this way. In answer to the sources, I would say "ask my neighbors, friends and people I work with". As for "grounds", I would again say "If you haven't lived here for any length of time, you have no idea what you are talking about".

You lived in Saskatchewan during the early 80's? If you did, then you should have a damn good idea what I'm talking about. I have company locations in Turtleford, Swift Current, Estevan and others, and I will tell you that their attitudes in general are no different from mine. These guys are just starting to make some serious coin and many of our people are finally able to move back home and still work for us (because of oil development). Wait until tax year 2009-10, then you'll see anger.

An awful lot of people out here are Albertan first (or Sask), and Canadian second (if convenient).

[Smallc]

(we're not voting for him; we're voting against Liberals).

I believe according to the last poll the Liberals are near 30% now.

[Hydraboss]

I believe according to the last poll the Liberals are near 30% now.

There are two commonly known swing ridings in Alberta. Strathcona in Edmonton and Anne McClellan's old riding......oh yeah.....in Edmonton. The 30% means absolutely nothing. Consider the margin with which Conservative candidates win, and the margin by which Liberal candidates lose.

[Pliny]

I never had any sense of the extreme resentment of Alberta cons against the rest of Canada until discussion boards. I'm not sure I wanted to know either.

And why is it that unions and workers of all kinds are just supposed to 'suck it up', when the high paid people whine like stuck pigs at a little hit to their wallet? It's just so disgusting.

It makes no sense. I'm more and more inclined to believe we truly need to rein in the high rollers. They have no commitment to country, to people, only moneymoneymoney in their own pocket.

I wonder if it is finally sinking in out there that Alberta is dependent for its welfare not only on the fortuitous presence of oil, but also on the presence of industries and cars to use that oil ... in the east.

"High paid people whine like stuck pigs at a little hit to their wallet." LOL. Try hitting the wallets of unionized labour. whining is not the result. Try threats of violence.

I'll comment on Alberta when I have read the rest of the thread. I just had to say something about that specious and disingenuous comment.

Edited April 19, 2009 by Pliny

[Smallc]

Consider the margin with which Conservative candidates win, and the margin by which Liberal candidates lose.

The point is, Liberal fortunes are improving. They were not at 30% in recent elections. Perhaps there are Albertans who have decided that they don't have to hate Liberals any longer.

[Hydraboss]

The point is, Liberal fortunes are improving. They were not at 30% in recent elections. Perhaps there are Albertans who have decided that they don't have to hate Liberals any longer.

My guess would be that those are people that have recently moved to the province. They can vote any way they wish, but it will not make a difference. Their votes count about as much as a Reform vote would in Kwebek.

[Pliny]

Here's the reality. That paycheque exists solely because there is a larger society stable enough to permit you a regular job. In short, you owe that society some portion of the cheque, because without it, there would be no job, there would be no pay, there would likely not even be money in the sense we've come to expect.

Taxes are a part of life. They have been a part of life pretty much since the beginning of civilization (prior to that, the notion of private property didn't really exist in a meaningful sense). If you don't like paying taxes, then I suggest you head off to Somalia, though I suggest you'll end up spending a fair chunk of your pay on the private army.\

Other than that, suck it up. You owe the greater society your contribution, period. You do have the opportunity every few years to elect a representative. If you feel your taxes are too high, let them know that. This is a democracy, the majority rule, within certain limits.

This argument is one I hear more frequently from socialists as time goes by. Must be successful for them.

It is the old you are not an island unto yourself and many people in society are necessary in aiding you to achieve the wealth and status you have so you are obligated to give back to the community and society.

It is run quite heavily on corporations, and corporations take the punch and suffer the black eye rather than realize they exist only because they contribute to the society with whatever product or service they provide it.

Socialists are always looking for an angle to get into someone else's pockets and judging from what I see they have made this one of their prime guilt sticks.

In a free market system people contribute to each other on a voluntary basis and are rewarded according to their contribution not only to each other but to the community as a whole. This is how rewards are determined freely and not by the conniving of how to get something for nothing.

Edited April 19, 2009 by Pliny

[Pliny]

Well, I read the thread and statistics as usual have proven to be worse than damn lies.

The argument ended when it was discovered that the statistics used were from spring break up.

While I don't doubt some of Alberta's losses are a result of global economic conditions I don't see their numbers being any worse than anywhere else in Canada and still better than the maunfacturing based economies all things condsidered.

[ironstone]

This is a definite thread hijack here, but 'Alberta' is developing a serious reputation for being out-and-out obnoxious- rude, obstructive, arrogant, no pretence to either civility or rationality.... no pretence to fair play. A bit of a snarling dog, aware only of the moment... tied absolutely to the conduct/attitudes of our current federal government, particularly to the most odious, off the edge parts of it...

(This too shall pass.)

I say this not to offend, but to ask whether Albertans are aware of it, and if so, whether they cultivate it (I suspect they do. Some anyway.) , to suggest that it also invites a lot of blowback, since so much of politics is emotional and reactionary, and to wonder why it would be so cultivated? Fact is, it's running provincial credibility into the dumpster.

I think Albertans have a more legitimate beef than say,Quebec.Quebecers complain a lot more than Albertans,typically about not getting their "fair share" of revenue or not having enough power.

[tango]

Funny, I live in Ontario next to Quebec, and I never hear them complaining, just Alberta.

It is sadly true that the more money someone makes, the louder they cry when they have to give some of it up. Apparently it's true of provinces too.

Hydraboss, if you could only really hear yourself ... whining like a two year old because you have to pay as much in taxes as some people pay for their mortgage. That means you make a damn good living. Can you see this very tiny violin that I'm playing for you?

It's just ridiculous to complain about making so much money. When a union worker loses his/her job, they lose their house. It is just not the same thing as an executive or business owner having to cut back a bit.

Again, it's just unbelievably tacky to hear people whine about such good fortune. I think the whiners should do us all a favour and give up their high paying jobs and live on welfare. I guarantee you will be too busy trying to stay alive to be so grouchy about it, and you won't have to pay taxes!

[Hydraboss]

It's just ridiculous to complain about making so much money. When a union worker loses his/her job, they lose their house. It is just not the same thing as an executive or business owner having to cut back a bit.

My wife is a union nurse. My neighbor is a union welder that makes $43.00 per hour. He's not going to lose his house any more than I am.

Hydraboss, if you could only really hear yourself ... whining like a two year old because you have to pay as much in taxes as some people pay for their mortgage. That means you make a damn good living. Can you see this very tiny violin that I'm playing for you?

You'd "whine" too if someone was taking that much off your check. I do make a damn good living because I work hard. You don't see anything wrong with that much tax because you obviously have no ambition. Maybe if you actually tried to better your lot in life you would have a clue what the hell you're talking about. People like you try to make it an evil thing to want to do better for your own family strictly because of jealousy.

So you're going nowhere in life. Oh well.

Can you see this very tiny violin that I'm playing for you?

Edited April 19, 2009 by Hydraboss

[Smallc]

I do make a damn good living because I work hard.

You keep saying that, and it means nothing. Lot's of people work hard. My parents pay enough in the way of tax to pay a mortgage as well, and they rarely complain. Get over yourself.

[tango]

My wife is a union nurse. My neighbor is a union welder that makes $43.00 per hour. He's not going to lose his house any more than I am.

You'd "whine" too if someone was taking that much off your check. I do make a damn good living because I work hard. You don't see anything wrong with that much tax because you obviously have no ambition. Maybe if you actually tried to better your lot in life you would have a clue what the hell you're talking about. People like you try to make it an evil thing to want to do better for your own family strictly because of jealousy.

So you're going nowhere in life. Oh well.

Can you see this very tiny violin that I'm playing for you?

No need to get so insultingly personal and make up stories. You know nothing about me, nor are you entitled to. However, I certainly never complained about the large amount of taxes I paid like you do, because that's the price of living in Canada, and that's my choice. Love it or leave it.

Your neighbour is about 3 months away from living on the street if he gets laid off and can't get a job. That's when the bank forecloses. And that's true of over half of Canadians, but if it is not true for you ... what do you really have to complain about!

People who make a lot of money are supposed to make sure they enjoy life so it will motivate other people!

[Pliny]

Funny, I live in Ontario next to Quebec, and I never hear them complaining, just Alberta.

Just do the same with Albertans as you do with Quebecers, put your fingers in your ears and go Lalalalalalalllala.

It is sadly true that the more money someone makes, the louder they cry when they have to give some of it up. Apparently it's true of provinces too.

Those Union guys really get up in arms if you even mention it. Must be making too much money.

Hydraboss, if you could only really hear yourself ... whining like a two year old because you have to pay as much in taxes as some people pay for their mortgage. That means you make a damn good living. Can you see this very tiny violin that I'm playing for you?

Just think what good he could do for his community if he didn't have someone picking his pockets and telling him how they are going to spend it for him.

It's just ridiculous to complain about making so much money.

When a union worker loses his/her job, they lose their house. It is just not the same thing as an executive or business owner having to cut back a bit.

Why does a Union worker lose his house when he loses his job? There are reasons for that - perhaps because it makes no sense to save and the economy is structured for people to spend. The government at all levels takes 50% of the Union workers pay as well. Wouldn't it be nice if he could keep most of his pay?

I think the whiners should do us all a favour and give up their high paying jobs and live on welfare.

They are whining because you are working on exactly that.

[Molly]

Funny, I live in Ontario next to Quebec, and I never hear them complaining, just Alberta.

Ditto. (and it strikes me as being very odd.)

It particularly strikes me as odd because I see so little for Alberta to complain about. They are in the catbird seat-- in ascendance- thriving and well-to-do, for the moment in a position of striking influence...

and the more they have, the louder and nastier and less rational they seem to become. The downturn seems to have subdued some of the worst loud, obnoxious ones!

LOL Perhaps not so odd. I giggled right out loud in astonished disbelief at Ontario folks crying penury when we arrived here a few years ago. They saw programs gutted-- but I saw a bountiful, unbelieveably luxurious remainder (and waste that made my toes curl).