Rejoice on this day!

betsy · April 12, 2009

Resurrection is the very foundation of all Christianity.

It is the proof, the power and the promise.

Thanks be to God.

Sabre Rider · April 12, 2009

Resurrection is the very foundation of all Christianity.
It is the proof, the power and the promise.

Thanks be to God.

not a Christian, but enjoy anyways.

cybercoma · April 17, 2009

So yeah, about that Satan/Jesus thing.

You set up a formula that cannot be disproven, which means it is worthless because it cannot be proven either. All good things are attributed to Jesus/God, and all bad things are attributed to Satan. Without being able to determine whether something is true or false, it is illogical. How do you know it isn't god that is doing both good and evil?

St. Augustine believed we suffer on this earth because God set out a punishment for us and we are deserving of that punishment. God is the one that allows us to suffer to show that He is just and righteous, but also to contrast His mercy when you are one of the chosen, showing how great that mercy is. In that case, God is the one that allows the bad to happen as part of your just punishment for inheriting original sin from the fall of man.

Oh, philosophies abound.

But you have faith in a single philosophy, why? Because it has been around for so long? There are many other religions that have been around for much longer. The Romans and Greeks had many other gods. Hinduism has many gods. Buddhism doesn't even have a god, per se. People choose the religion of their communities and there is no rational reason for doing so. Ethnocentricity and the incompatibility of faiths that believe they are the only TRUE path, leads to irreconcilable conflicts over culturally learned differences in mythical beliefs.

You may believe what you want. But know that when those incompatible beliefs are made public, they are destructive to humanity as community and society.

betsy · April 17, 2009

You set up a formula that cannot be disproven, which means it is worthless because it cannot be proven either.

You got it right it cannot be dis-proven! But you're wrong because it has been proven!

Like I said, the RESURRECTION is the very foundation of Christianity!

One named Frank Morrison (whom I think was an atheist) had set out once and for all to disprove the Resurrection. So he gathered all evidences and did his study ....and guess what

His findings were so compelling that he ended up converting to Christianity!

Morrison is not the first and only atheist who ended up believing after investigative studies and evidence-gatherings!

I have to go....out of time. Check out the site below and we'll discuss it.

http://.greatcom.org/resources/areadydefense/ch20/default.htm

Edited April 17, 2009 by betsy

cybercoma · April 17, 2009

First of all, scientists don't prove that something doesn't exist. People believed there was no such thing as black swans, that is until they found them. It's quite simple to prove something exists, yet impossible to prove the non-existence of something. Point being, the burden of proof is on the person that claims the existence of something to actually show that it is there, not the other way around. Don't get me wrong, you have all the right in the world to believe whatever you want. I also have every right in the world to think you're completely irrational for believing things without any sort of credible reason to believe them.

betsy · April 17, 2009

First of all, scientists don't prove that something doesn't exist. People believed there was no such thing as black swans, that is until they found them. It's quite simple to prove something exists, yet impossible to prove the non-existence of something. Point being, the burden of proof is on the person that claims the existence of something to actually show that it is there, not the other way around. Don't get me wrong, you have all the right in the world to believe whatever you want. I also have every right in the world to think you're completely irrational for believing things without any sort of credible reason to believe them.

You got it right it cannot be dis-proven! But you're wrong because it has been proven!

http://www.greatcom.org/resources/areadyde...h20/default.htm

Edited April 17, 2009 by betsy

cybercoma · April 18, 2009

You don't actually believe the Resurrection is true because people have had ample opportunity to question it and haven't, do you?

They had about 1.5 millenia to question Ptolemy's earth-centered universe theory too.

The other thing that article says is that the Resurrection must be true because believers are so adamant.

Jews and Muslims, however, are adamant that Jesus is not the son of God. In fact, the majority of the planet, which is not Christian, is adamant that Jesus is not the son of some divinity.

These arguments do not actually prove or make probable anything.

Oleg Bach · April 18, 2009

2000 years later - and the wisdom of this great man lives! Forget about religion _ Jesus the King Of Judea - was not religious - he was pragmatic and logical - and he knew how things in the natural world worked as well as the super --------------natural world the controls the natural...and he lives in all of those that believe in the truth - if it was not for this doctrine we would be living in caves and killing each other - to accept this spirit is like being possessed by a kind and refreshing parasite that sustains good health and long life - and all we have to do is let this dead man live in our body...It's not a bad deal...and the holy spirit does not enter without invitation ----better to be sustained by God than not ---------------Yes - we are all born again................

"let the dead bury the dead" - some breath but are dead - we live!

cybercoma · April 18, 2009

Civilization existed before Jesus, and exists in every place on the planet that doesn't believe in Jesus. What are you talking about?

Edited April 18, 2009 by cybercoma

Oleg Bach · April 18, 2009

Civilization existed before Jesus. What are you talking about?

Jesus always existed - He was from the high order of Mechelzadeck...I believe it was an ancient Egyptian order..and older - these concepts have been around for thousands of years - Christ was just another incarnate ..and a great one at that.

cybercoma · April 18, 2009

2012! The Return of Quetzelcoatl! REPENT!

betsy · April 19, 2009

You don't actually believe the Resurrection is true because people have had ample opportunity to question it and haven't, do you?

Eh? Come again?

What do you think all the nay-sayers and the fence-sitters have been doing ever since Christ died.... all the way to the present day?

Didnt you question it? Why didn't you?

You've had ample opportunity trying to prove the Bible wrong...trying to knock down belief in Christ...and yet you didn't question the one single most important event that holds the Christian faith together!

Some non-believers and atheists of high education, some of whom practiced law did. Why wouldn't they question it? If they can prove there was no Resurrection, it means Christians believe in a dead God!

It means Christians don't have anything to really believe in. So of course, that's the main focus of attacks on this belief: Prove that Christ did not rise.

In fact, they not only questioned it but have taken it upon themselves to gather evidences and do their own investigations....and in the process, only ended up BELIEVING!

That alone, should make anyone to stop and think and ask: WHY? Why did they end up embracing the faith they sought out to destroy?

They gathered evidences! Did their own investigations! Embarked on a fact-finding mission!

These were not just ordinary atheists! Not only were they learned. But for them to have devoted great time, thoughts and energy to try to de-mystify the Christian Faith (and affirm their own belief in non-God)...these atheists were what you'd call fundamentalists! They were serious and firm believers of atheism! Not someone to easily be convinced. Activists! What did they find?

I do believe the Resurrection is true....not just because the logical conclusion is that obviously these atheists had found the evidences and proofs that convinced them without any doubt that the Resurrection did happen...which means Christ is the Son of God, and the Bible is true.

I say without a doubt...because they didn't just say "maybe" and left it at that....or these atheists did not abandon their research and moved on to other things....or quietly faded away.

THEY CONVERTED!

Could you imagine the implication of that?

Their conversions to Christianity clearly support that they've seen evidences that made them believe.

Not only that, they did not just embrace the Christian Faith.....but have instead became vocal about it! They were not just passive believers!

The most important evidence for me is the way the Apostles and disciples reacted and behaved after the Resurrection took place.

All throughout the New Testament...to the moment of death and Resurrection....the Apostles' faith wavered and conflicted. They were beset with doubts. Uncertain sometimes although they tried to cling to their faith.

Putting myself in their shoes, I could almost understand the questions that must've occasionaly nagged at them (whether they were doing the right thing leaving family and livelihood behind to become a disciple? Is Christ for real?)

They didn't fully understand some of the teachings that were given in Parables. Christ had to explain several times the meaning of the Parables. They had witnessed numerous miracles (healings, feeding the thousands, etc..,) and yet question of faith still plagues them every now and then. Very human tendencies I suppose....which Christ understood, for He was ever patient with them.

When Jesus was arrested, Peter, out of fear of being arrested too or lynched, denied Christ three times.

When Christ was dead and buried, the Apostles maintained a low profile, went into hiding. It's understandable. They saw the frenzy of the mob who persecuted Christ.

And now that their leader was dead, they feared that they'll be the next ones to be rounded up.

If they felt fear, it must mean their faith was not so solid.

But after Christ had risen, the change in the Apostles and disciples was so dramatic! Suddenly they were brimming of faith that they feared not death! They ventured out to preach! They were threatened by the rulers and yet defiantly they preached! Two Apostles were thrown in prison, and miraculously got out of prison...where did they find them the next day? In town, in the synagogue, preaching!

A lot of them have been MARTYRED! The first one was Stephen. This is not just being "adamant."

This is belief! Pure and simple Faith!

How did they get that kind of faith when all throughout the time Christ was with them their faith flickered like candles?

And after the Resurrection...suddenly they had the zeal! Not one or two or three of them. All of them!

Then, there's the small detail of a question: Where is the Body?

And another question: With all the advancement, why hasn't anyone come up with an answer that proves the Resurrection did not happen?

This is all I'm going to devote on this debate with Cybercoma. I've presented the proofs. If you're truly keen in being objective about this discussion the least that you could do is read the link I gave you.

And please don't ask me why God made the Bible hard to understand. I have my own theory on that but I'm sure it's something you wouldn't accept. So there's no point in discussing it.

NOTE: I corrected a mistake. I accidentally wrote Phillip as the first martyr in the Book of Acts. It was Stephen.

Edited April 21, 2009 by betsy

cybercoma · April 19, 2009

They Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe and holds us to the earth with his noodly appendages. PROVE ME WRONG! Go on a fact finding mission and show me that this isn't true, so that I may believe your faith in Jesus Christ is true. I know the FSM is real because it is written in a book, and you too can have a copy (see: www.chapters.ca)

You're funny.

Edited April 19, 2009 by cybercoma

Sabre Rider · April 19, 2009

My Skydaddy can beat up your Skydaddy..........all religious arguments are now neatly summed up in one easy to understand statement.

scorpio · April 19, 2009

They gathered evidences! Did their own investigations! Embarked on a fact-finding mission!
These were not just ordinary atheists! Not only were they learned. But for them to have devoted great time, thoughts and energy to try to de-mystify the Christian Faith (and affirm their own belief in non-God)...these atheists were what you'd call fundamentalists! They were serious and firm believers of atheism! Not someone to easily be convinced. Activists!

...the logical conclusion is that obviously these atheists had found the evidences and proofs that convinced them without any doubt that the Resurrection did happen...which means Christ is the Son of God, and the Bible is true.

What atheists?

Got a secular link for these "evidences and proof?"

cybercoma · April 19, 2009

Wait... let me guess. Kirk Cameron.

betsy · April 20, 2009

C. S. LEWIS

Clive Staples Lewis (29 November 1898 – 22 November 1963), commonly referred to as C. S. Lewis and known to his friends and family as Jack, was a northern Irish novelist, academic, medievalist, literary critic, essayist, lay theologian and Christian apologist. He is also known for his fiction, especially The Screwtape Letters, The Chronicles of Narnia and The Space Trilogy.

Lewis was a close friend of J. R. R. Tolkien, the author of The Lord of the Rings. Both authors were leading figures in the English faculty at Oxford University and in the informal Oxford literary group known as the "Inklings".

Raised in a church-going family in the Church of Ireland, Lewis unfortunately became an atheist at the age of 15, though he later paradoxically described his young self (in Surprised by Joy) as being "very angry with God for not existing". He returned to his Christian beliefs at age 33.

His separation from Christianity began when he started to view his religion as a chore and as a duty; around this time he also gained an interest in the occult as his studies expanded to include such topics. Lewis quoted Lucretius (De rerum natura, 5.198–9) as having one of the strongest arguments for atheism:

Nequaquam nobis divinitus esse paratam

Naturam rerum; tanta stat praedita culpa

"Had God designed the world, it would not be

A world so frail and faulty as we see."

Influenced by arguments with his Oxford colleague and friend J. R. R. Tolkien, and by the book The Everlasting Man by Roman Catholic convert G. K. Chesterton, he slowly rediscovered Christianity. He fought greatly up to the moment of his conversion noting, "I came into Christianity kicking and screaming." He described his last struggle in Surprised by Joy:

You must picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me. In the Trinity Term of 1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England. [10]

In addition to his career as an English professor and an author of fiction, Lewis is regarded by many as one of the most influential Christian apologists of his time; Mere Christianity was voted best book of the twentieth century by Christianity Today in 2000. Due to Lewis's approach to religious belief as a skeptic, and his following conversion, he has been called "The Apostle to the Skeptics."

Lewis was very much interested in presenting a reasonable case for the truth of Christianity. Mere Christianity, The Problem of Pain, and Miracles were all concerned, to one degree or another, with refuting popular objections to Christianity, such as "How could a good God allow pain to exist in the world?".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.S._Lewis#Th...stian_apologist

betsy · April 20, 2009

Sir William Ramsay

Sir William Ramsay of Oxford University in England, one of history’s greatest archaeologists. He was an atheist. He spent 25 years doing archaeological digs to try to disprove the book of Acts, which was written by the historian Luke (who also wrote the gospel of Luke) ...

“Instead of discrediting Luke’s account, Ramsay’s discoveries kept supporting it. Finally, he concluded that Luke was one of the most accurate historians who had ever written.

Influenced by the archaeological evidence, Ramsay became a Christian.” (p68-69)

http://www.bethanychurch.info/html/case_for_christ.html

Ramsay was very skeptical of the accuracy of the New Testament, and he ventured to Asia minor over a century ago to refute its historicity. He especially took interest in Luke's accounts in the Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts, which contained numerous geographical and historic references. Dig after dig the evidence without fail supported Luke's accounts. Governors mentioned by Luke that many historians never believe existed were confirmed by the evidence excavated by Ramsay's archeological team. Without a single error, Luke was accurate in naming 32 countries, 54 cities, and 9 islands. Ramsay became so overwhelmed with the evidence he eventually converted to Christianity. Ramsay finally had this to say:

I began with a mind unfavorable to it...but more recently I found myself brought into contact with the Book of Acts as an authority for the topography, antiquities, and society of Asia Minor. It was gradually borne upon me that in various details the narrative showed marvelous truth3.

Luke is a historian of the first rank; not merely are his statements of fact trustworthy...this author should be placed along with the very greatest historians4.

The classical historian A.N. Sherwin-White collaborates Ramsay's work regarding the Book of Acts:

Any attempt to reject its basic historicity even in matters of detail must now appear absurd. Roman historians have long taken it for granted5.

Discoveries ranging from evidence for the Tower of Babel, to Exodus, to the Walls of Jericho, all the way to the tombs of contemporaries of St. Paul, have greatly enhanced the believability of the Bible. Though this vast archeological evidence does not prove God wrote the Bible, it surely must compel the honest skeptic to at least acknowledge its historical veracity. For the believer its yet another reassuring testimony to the reliability of the Bible.

In the words of the University of Yale archeologist Millar Burrows:

...Archeological work has unquestionably strengthened confidence in the reliability of the scriptural record. More than one archeologist has found respect for the Bible increased by the experience of excavation in Palestine6.

http://www.bibleevidences.com/archeology.htm

Edited April 20, 2009 by betsy

betsy · April 20, 2009

LEE STROBEL

Atheist-turned-Christian Lee Strobel, the former award-winning legal editor of The Chicago Tribune, is a New York Times best-selling author of nearly twenty books and has been interviewed on numerous national television programs, including ABC’s 20/20, Fox News, and CNN.

After a nearly two-year investigation of the evidence for Jesus, Lee received Christ as his forgiver and leader in 1981. He joined the staff of Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, IL, in 1987, and later became a teaching pastor there

Described by the Washington Post as “one of the evangelical community’s most popular apologists,” Lee shared the prestigious Charles “Kip” Jordon Christian Book of the Year award in 2005 for a curriculum he co-authored about the movie The Passion of the Christ. He also has won awards for his books The Case for Christ, The Case for Faith, The Case for a Creator, and Inside the Mind of Unchurched Harry and Mary.

http://leestrobel.com/LS_bio.htm

Muddy · April 20, 2009

Why can`t people just let people like Betsy enjoy her thoughts and the sharing of something she finds beatiful.

A belated Happy Easter Betsy,I appreciate the fact that you have found something so profoundly beautiful to you.

betsy · April 20, 2009

Why can`t people just let people like Betsy enjoy her thoughts and the sharing of something she finds beatiful.
A belated Happy Easter Betsy,I appreciate the fact that you have found something so profoundly beautiful to you.

Thank you.

scorpio · April 20, 2009

Okay, you've named 3 people, cited 3 biblical sites and wikipedia. Hardly impressive. What about considering "The Bible Unearthed" written by Israel Finkelstein, Professor of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University, and Neil Asher Silberman, a contributing editor to Archaeology Magazine, and who are archeologists of this century. It is a totally secular publication and calls into question just about everything we've "known" about the old testament history and archeology, especially in regards to biblical timelines and mythical history. You can't use biblical sources to prove the bible. You need impartial science and investigation, not more apologists.

scorpio · April 20, 2009

Why can`t people just let people like Betsy enjoy her thoughts and the sharing of something she finds beatiful.
A belated Happy Easter Betsy,I appreciate the fact that you have found something so profoundly beautiful to you.

It is the proof, the power and the promise.

Because, Muddy, Betsy tends to prostletize with her posts. And I find that offensive on a public forum. Everyones entitled to believe what they wish, just don't make it a continual mantra.

Muddy · April 20, 2009

Okay, you've named 3 people, cited 3 biblical sites and wikipedia. Hardly impressive. What about considering "The Bible Unearthed" written by Israel Finkelstein, Professor of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University, and Neil Asher Silberman, a contributing editor to Archaeology Magazine, and who are archeologists of this century. It is a totally secular publication and calls into question just about everything we've "known" about the old testament history and archeology, especially in regards to biblical timelines and mythical history. You can't use biblical sources to prove the bible. You need impartial science and investigation, not more apologists.

Why not be a little genteel and just let the gal enjoy something she has found beautiful. Not everything has to be argued.