Send Lord Black Home.

[benny]

Also while I'm at it - If you go back 50 years - there were to factions in control of the economic centre of Canada - the anglo scotts and brits and the jews...the jews had a section of the city that was over by what is now China town - and the Anglos hovered around Bay St..slowly the two factions merged - and even the old anglo bastion that was once controled by the oldest anglo corporation - the hudson bay company and later the eaton family - is now a mix - of Jewish and Anglo law firms and buisnesses - I noticed a look on Blacks Lawyers face when he failed to fully protect his client.....it was a look that said - I have done a dirty deed - I think it was not just the fued with the French faction in Montreal (Chrietien) but also a power play by the Jewish faction in Toronto - Conrad was in their eyes the proverbial white rhino...a torphy kill - It was a huge game that the elite played...and he took the fall - but it was a useless and damaging game that disrupted and effected our system in a negative way - Conrad was convicted out of sheer spite. He was no more guilty or innocent than a hundred other top players...There is no point in allowing what is in effect some second rate shadow government - having revenge and one upmanship...it's stupid - I say let the guy go....and screw the old lunitics that think they are gangsters from another era - gone international.

There may be some truth in what you believe, but here why it doesn't matter:

Jury wanted to convict Conrad Black on all charges: juror

Monday, October 22, 2007

CBC News

One of the jurors who took part in the Conrad Black trial says most of the jury was ready to convict him of every charge until she dug up a piece of evidence and argued for the former media baron's innocence.

In an exclusive interview with CBC News, juror Jean Kelly said after close to four months of testimony at Black's trial, nine of the 12 jurors were convinced Black was guilty of all 13 charges against him.

On July 13, the former head of the Hollinger newspaper empire was convicted of obstruction of justice and three counts of fraud, but was acquitted on nine other charges.

Kelly, a postal worker and single mom from suburban Chicago, said she didn't agree with her fellow jurors and spoke up.

"I don't think for a minute what he did was right. I just don't think that criminal intent was there," she said.

In Canada, jurors are legally required to maintain confidentiality following a trial, a practice not followed in the U.S.

Kelly said while she found Black arrogant and condescending, she couldn't convict him on all charges.

"I felt very strongly on my convictions. I would have went for mistrial before I would have caved in on my beliefs," she said.

Kelly said she started digging through boxes of evidence in an attempt to support her belief.

As days wore on, Kelly said the jurors, who deliberated for 16 days, were furious at her and two other jurors for holding out reaching a unanimous verdict.

Kelly said she was floored by their angry reaction to her belief.

"I guess nobody likes being attacked for the way you think or believe. It's not like anybody was trying to tell you [that] you were wrong but ... you almost go on the defensive when they do that to you, I guess."

Kelly said she found the evidence she was looking for in the footnotes of a document.

The evidence was never presented by Black's own lawyers, she said.

After Kelly made her case, the jurors changed their position from an original vote to convict on all charges to guilty on four charges.

Black who will be sentenced on Nov. 30, had to surrender his British passport and was ordered to remain in Chicago or at his home in Florida.

The prosecution has said that a prison term of at least 15 years would be appropriate for the former media baron.

In August, Black, 62, asked the judge to throw out the July verdict and has requested a new trial "taking into account the credibility of witnesses."

The U.S. government — with star prosecution witness and former Black chief lieutenant David Radler — alleged Black, 62, devised a scheme to improperly divert $60 million US to himself, Radler, and three co-defendants — Mark Kipnis, Jack Boultbee, and Peter Atkinson — largely through non-compete payments in the sale of hundreds of Hollinger-owned U.S. and Canadian community newspapers.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/10/22/b...or.html?ref=rss

Edited May 19, 2009 by benny

[Oleg Bach]

I see you beside Diane Francis at the National Post:

Black failed to grasp the U.S. way; A Downfall Of Shakespearean Proportions

Diane Francis. National Post. Jul 14, 2007. pg. FP.2

"What he didn't understand is that Americans are a bunch of social Darwinists whose laws stem from Puritanical beliefs. This is why they are the only developed country in the world that still imposes capital punishment and why they go after white-collar criminals, no matter their position, with a vengeance, unlike Canada or Britain."

From what I understand - and understand though observation over the years is that Conrad is the spawn of the most intense Canadian social Darwinists the world has ever seen....our Darwinists make the American ones pale in comparison. Conrad did not expect to be abandoned by his own..there is an old saying when on of these people fall in weakness or are "caught" shall we say --------------------"It's not my dog"......Conrad knows that he was double crossed by the Jews - and abandoned by his Anglo brethern...still ----------------it's not fair - either convict all or none....IF - we had the power to convict all of our white collar bad boys - the jails would be so full that we would have to empty out every black gang banger doing provincial and federal time..to make room - same as in the states - hundreds of corporations have collapsed - because of poor management and corruption that stems from stupidity - lazyness and greed - so what do we do - fill the jails with our elite - or reprimand them and have them carry on? You can not tear down the temple with out replacing it - so we repair the temple.

[benny]

From what I understand - and understand though observation over the years is that Conrad is the spawn of the most intense Canadian social Darwinists the world has ever seen....our Darwinists make the American ones pale in comparison. Conrad did not expect to be abandoned by his own..there is an old saying when on of these people fall in weakness or are "caught" shall we say --------------------"It's not my dog"

"He was paying himself not to compete against himself."

(The state prosecutor speaking of Black before the judge)

No need to be a Social Darwinist to find this objectionable.

[Oleg Bach]

"He was paying himself not to compete against himself."

(The state prosecutor speaking of Black before the judge)

No need to be a Social Darwinist to find this objectionable.

It's much like a big cheeze said of Frank Stronach..."It's his money" - the founder of a corporation is the corporation - he is the head of the corporate body - who else is going to pay him and why should he complete with himself? He was on top. Once the founder of a corporation dies - the spirit and purpose of the corporation disappears - and the corporation continues like a mad cannibal - eating all in it's path - ensuring the corporate bodies survival - the bottom line - with no real purpose or agenda or dream. Once you reach the very top of the corporate world as Conrad did - there simply is no one else left to compete with...so no-competition payments had to go some where - what was he to do - toss the cash out the window...It's very strange.

[benny]

It's much like a big cheeze said of Frank Stronach..."It's his money" - the founder of a corporation is the corporation - he is the head of the corporate body - who else is going to pay him and why should he complete with himself? He was on top. Once the founder of a corporation dies - the spirit and purpose of the corporation disappears - and the corporation continues like a mad cannibal - eating all in it's path - ensuring the corporate bodies survival - the bottom line - with no real purpose or agenda or dream. Once you reach the very top of the corporate world as Conrad did - there simply is no one else left to compete with...so no-competition payments had to go some where - what was he to do - toss the cash out the window...It's very strange.

Before going over the top, take some time to understand how Black went over the board (of directors):

CONRAD BLACK'S RETINUE OF INSIDERS, CRONIES, AND CLUNKERS.

By Daniel Gross

Posted Thursday, Nov. 20, 2003

The 22-year tenure of media baron Conrad Black at the helm of Hollinger International, which will officially end Friday, was marked by naked contempt for common shareholders. The company—and its shareholders—lent money to an entity controlled by Black, paid massive management fees to entities controlled by Black, sold assets to companies controlled by Black, and maintained a condominium for Black in New York. The board of directors approved every step of the way. It wasn't until this Monday—when a special committee of outsiders, formed at the urging of shareholder activist Tweedy Browne, disclosed $32 million in unreported or improperly reported compensation to Black and other executives—that he was forced to step down.

Over his career, Black, aka Lord Black of Crossharbour, brilliantly cobbled together an empire of newspapers that included London's Daily Telegraph, the Chicago Sun-Times, and the Jerusalem Post. But his greatest feat may have been putting together a board of directors singularly unequipped to oversee a newspaper operation, to deliver justice to shareholders, and to grasp the concept of conflicts of interest. For the past several years, in fact, Hollinger International's board has been the corporate governance equivalent of the Star Wars cantina scene. Virtually every corporate board includes some individuals who don't bring much business expertise to the table. They're in the room because they're friends or relatives of top executives, or they're well-connected former government officials, or they're celebrities. Others may be chosen because they bring needed racial or gender diversity, or because they represent a worthy cause. (Enron's board of directors included a cancer researcher, for example.) But there are few cases in which the board of directors of a publicly held company is almost entirely stocked with insiders, cronies, and clunkers, with the odd convict thrown in for good measure.

As of the spring, Hollinger International's board included five individuals who met the Securities and Exchange Commission's definition of corporate insiders: Black; his wife, columnist Barbara Amiel Black; and three other Hollinger International executives. The list of so-called independent directors—the people who are supposed to ride herd on the insiders and stop them from screwing shareholders—was composed almost entirely of a different type of insider. Indeed, the roster of independent directors reads like the politically plugged-in guest list at an American Enterprise Institute dinner—not the managerial crowd you'd find at a Business Roundtable function. There's former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger (a director since 1996), who would seem to have little insight into the business challenges facing a newspaper company—think newsprint prices, union contracts, the impact of the digital era on newspapers. (Strategic bombing of media competitors, after all, is typically not an option.) He evidently agreed: While the Board met four times in 2002, the proxy notes that "Mr. Kissinger did not attend 75% or more of the aggregate of the total number of meetings of the Board of Directors and the total number of meetings of the committees on which such director served." In other words, in exchange for his $35,000 director's fee, Kissinger attended at most one meeting—and possibly none.

The slate of directors standing for re-election last May included: the Honorable Richard Burt, the former arms negotiator and Reagan-era ambassador to Germany; the Honorable James Thompson, the former Republican governor of Illinois; and the Honorable Richard Perle. The Honorable Robert Strauss, the ambi-partisan fixer and former ambassador to the Soviet Union, served on the board for six years but left in 2002. Marie Josee Kravis, a respected conservative economist and the wife of financier Henry Kravis, was also a board member as of this spring. With the exception of Kravis, these directors were far more equipped to discuss regime change in Iraq than they were to discuss regime management in Conrad Black's empire. And they probably spent far more time discussing the former than the latter.

Most of these more or less honorable folks were basically idle directors. They showed up at meetings, ate lunch, rubber-stamped corporate plans, and cashed their checks. Except for Richard Perle. Perle, according to the most recent proxy statement, is co-chairman of Hollinger Digital Inc., which makes venture investments on behalf of the company, and a member of the board's powerful three-person executive committee. On Nov.13, the Financial Times reported that Hollinger is now investigating a $2.5 million investment that Hollinger Digital made in Trireme Partners, where Perle is a managing partner. According to the FT, Perle also directed a $14 million investment into Hillman Capital, a fund controlled by Gerald Hillman. Gerald Hillman, a fellow member of the Defense Policy Board, is also a member of Trireme Partners. Who would have imagined that Richard Perle would use a quasi-public office as a platform for his personal interests?

Over the years there have been a few real businesspeople on Hollinger International's board, such as Shmuel Meitar, the head of an Israeli media company, and Leslie Wexner, the highly regarded founder of the Limited, whose six-year board tenure ended in 2002. But Black seemed to have a genius for recruiting CEOs with legal issues, as Steven Pearlstein noted in Wednesday's Washington Post. A. Alfred Taubman, the former CEO of Sotheby's, remained on Hollinger's board even after he had been convicted of violating antitrust laws. Dwayne Andreas, the paterfamilias of Archer Daniels Midland, the agri-business giant that in 1996 pleaded guilty to price-fixing, was also a longtime board director.

Given this cast of characters, it should come as no surprise that over the years the stock of Hollinger International has failed to keep pace with the broad market indexes and many of its peer media companies. After all, putting a bunch of right-wingers with occasionally dubious foreign policy credentials in the position of directing a profit-making business seems almost as illogical as putting a bunch of right-wingers with occasionally dubious business credentials in charge of foreign policy.

http://www.slate.com/id/2091470/

[Oleg Bach]

Why is it that the author of this article, Mr. Gross and his buddy - the other detractor Peter Newman - both members of the Jewish community can legally conspire with impunity on an international level and the Anglo Christians can't? Look at the power the Canadian Jewish Congress has - and their cronies who have established themselves for life within the Israeli government - a government that is famous for laundering money with impunity - internationally - a group of Jewish Mafia guys that lobby Washington half to death creating death of common soldiers who protect THEIR interests with their lives - dupes that die!

Having said that - and not in a mean spirited way..or with any intent of encouraging anti-semitism - BUT - if the Jewish mafia can operate under the protection of established law - so can the Anglo's who are big buisness and for all intent and purpose a type of mafia also - as I said - either convict all or free all - using Black as some sort of trophy kill is unexceptable.

Now what I find worrisome is that the very curious Superme Court of the United States of America may just be disecting Mr. Black - so the untalented and unwise who have dropped the ball economically can figure out how things really work - they might just pick his mind and just dispose of him - suck his blood and dump him back into the dungeon..I will be frank - just about all of the civilized world is controled by an elite form of orgainized crime - our very system is a crimminal enterprise - and using Black as some symbol of reassurance to the public that we run a fair and just system is a joke.

[benny]

Why is it that the author of this article, Mr. Gross and his buddy - the other detractor Peter Newman - both members of the Jewish community can legally conspire with impunity on an international level and the Anglo Christians can't? Look at the power the Canadian Jewish Congress has - and their cronies who have established themselves for life within the Israeli government - a government that is famous for laundering money with impunity - internationally - a group of Jewish Mafia guys that lobby Washington half to death creating death of common soldiers who protect THEIR interests with their lives - dupes that die!

Having said that - and not in a mean spirited way..or with any intent of encouraging anti-semitism - BUT - if the Jewish mafia can operate under the protection of established law - so can the Anglo's who are big buisness and for all intent and purpose a type of mafia also - as I said - either convict all or free all - using Black as some sort of trophy kill is unexceptable.

Now what I find worrisome is that the very curious Superme Court of the United States of America may just be disecting Mr. Black - so the untalented and unwise who have dropped the ball economically can figure out how things really work - they might just pick his mind and just dispose of him - suck his blood and dump him back into the dungeon..I will be frank - just about all of the civilized world is controled by an elite form of orgainized crime - our very system is a crimminal enterprise - and using Black as some symbol of reassurance to the public that we run a fair and just system is a joke.

The Jews are the very first people in the history of the World to have acquired the capacity to read. And, they have done so directly on the sophisticated books that we now called the Old Testament. From there, the Jews can be said to have a fair advantage over other peoples to judge the conduct of a man and the worthiness of the newspapers he may sale.

Edited May 19, 2009 by benny

[Oleg Bach]

The Jews are the very first people in the history of the World to have acquired the capacity to read. And, they have done so directly on the sophisticated books that we now called the Old Testament. From there, the Jews can be said to have a fair advantage over other peoples to judge the conduct of a man and the worthiness of the newspapers he may sale.

Well Benjamin - what are you going to do to the old bastard Conrad? Beat the guy to death with your Torra? The Jews are racists who have no right to judge those they consider animals - let the animals try Conrad - let his own take care of the problem - so butt out.... "to judge the conduct of a man and the worthiness of the newspapers he may sale" ----you sure showed your cards Benny - now play nice - if the King of the Jews was to arrive and tell you want to do - would you assist the state of Rome in removing a good and kind king? Rome - don't suck up to the collective state Benny - they are not your friends - Historically once these anglos are done with you and you have done their dirty work - they burn you - just warning you Ben..... Yes he is worthless - so is every man on earth including every Jew - Muslim - Christian etc - that was my point - THE INDIVIDUAL IS VALUABLE - NOT JUST THE JEWISH ONE BUT ALL - THAT IS CALLED CIVILIZATION!

[benny]

Well Benjamin - what are you going to do to the old bastard Conrad? Beat the guy to death with your Torra? The Jews are racists who have no right to judge those they consider animals - let the animals try Conrad - let his own take care of the problem - so butt out.... "to judge the conduct of a man and the worthiness of the newspapers he may sale" ----you sure showed your cards Benny - now play nice - if the King of the Jews was to arrive and tell you want to do - would you assist the state of Rome in removing a good and kind king? Rome - don't suck up to the collective state Benny - they are not your friends - Historically once these anglos are done with you and you have done their dirty work - they burn you - just warning you Ben..... Yes he is worthless - so is every man on earth including every Jew - Muslim - Christian etc - that was my point - THE INDIVIDUAL IS VALUABLE - NOT JUST THE JEWISH ONE BUT ALL - THAT IS CALLED CIVILIZATION!

Because civilization is different of empire-building, civilization is not at all an accounting of individuals, it is inhabiting poetry by mastering alphabetic (symbolic) reading.

[Oleg Bach]

Because civilization is different of empire-building, civilization is not at all an accounting of individuals, it is inhabiting poetry by mastering alphabetic (symbolic) reading.

Sorry Benny if I was to hard on you - and now I will get down to the nitty gritty - Canada as we know it - was run for years like a private estate - Robber barrons dispised those with intelligence and talent - the best did not rise to the top - henchmen where exaulted and with empire building comes de-civililization and de-culturing...look at gun voilence and look at the collapse of our judicary - these are the end results of non-responsive empire building - the good suffered and the pludering bastards gave million dollar birthday parties so some trophy wife would blow them that night - Yes Benny - they sucked the lives out of thousands of good men - including you and I...so the best we can do is forgive them - love them - and we in the end have victory.

[Oleg Bach]

Here is the - will Black have learned his lesson? Will this group repent and attempt to repair the parts of society that they oppressed and destroyed? YES I resent being an outsider because I was not of the culture..I resent mostly that this group of men spent 40 years acquiring 20 companies a month - taking over our judicary - our government - our finacial institutions - then they went global and abandoned the nation of origin - and it all started selling some booze to the Americans....IF you were not on their good side - you could not move product - you could not by or sell - whether it was a film script - a song - book or a material object - they owned the godamned place - I want this bastard home so all those that waited for 30 years to contribute and succeed can take their rightful place - and bring this nation to the height that it should have been - I want Conrad home so he can take a second run at empire building - and build a just society that has real culture - where those with gifts are allowed to deliver their God given product - THAT'S WHAT I want! Before I and others pass from this world - we want to complete our mission - and Conrad the stumbling block should be made a spring board - and If he is not willing to co-operate - then he can languish in the slammer till he dithers.

[benny]

You seem to understand now that Black has been put in jail not out of a taste for revenge but because some public officials think he can still learn, in jail, to love justice and respect and guard shareholders' interests over the private interests of publicly-traded companies' managers/executives.

[Oleg Bach]

You seem to understand now that Black has been put in jail not out of a taste for revenge but because some public officials think he can still learn, in jail, to love justice and respect and guard shareholders' interests over the private interests of publicly-traded companies' managers/executives.

He's old and running out of time..and if he learns what use will it be to us - it will be to late... He's typical...the real story is has the world learned> - There were thousands of these selfish Napoleon running about all these years...and what did our system do as they destroyed their own companies that were public...governments rewarded them - with bail outs - and kept Conrad on ice as a diversion - eg..we got the bad guy.....In the old days the company would take a goat - and put all that blame on the goat - cover the goat with their sins and send it out into the desert to die - along with THEIR SINS...this was a scapegoating...scape goating is dellusional - the sins stay with the sinner!

[benny]

He's old and running out of time..and if he learns what use will it be to us - it will be to late... He's typical...the real story is has the world learned> - There were thousands of these selfish Napoleon running about all these years...and what did our system do as they destroyed their own companies that were public...governments rewarded them - with bail outs - and kept Conrad on ice as a diversion - eg..we got the bad guy.....In the old days the company would take a goat - and put all that blame on the goat - cover the goat with their sins and send it out into the desert to die - along with THEIR SINS...this was a scapegoating...scape goating is dellusional - the sins stay with the sinner!

It is easy to get the illusion that our justice system only searches for scapegoats because this system get jammed easily when too much similar crimes happen almost at the same time.

[Oleg Bach]

It is easy to get the illusion that our justice system only searches for scapegoats because this system get jammed easily when too much similar crimes happen almost at the same time.

No - it's not the system - per say....they do not search for scapegoats - It's those tough old guys that built private empires - who SACRAFICE one of their own on occassion - I as a young man was once engaged to a young woman that who's father was Conrads boss....I had not spoken to the "family" for a long time - when I heard Black was being jailed - I sent a voice mail ................"How could you guys do this to him" - it was not the courts that cuxified Conrad - it was his own group - someone had to take the fall. So others could stand...That's the system - all who were in association with Conrad - remained totally silent..that was very telling.

[jdobbin]

You do realize that Black is no longer a Canadian of his own choice. If he is to be sent home, it would be to Britain.

[benny]

No - it's not the system - per say....they do not search for scapegoats - It's those tough old guys that built private empires - who SACRAFICE one of their own on occassion - I as a young man was once engaged to a young woman that who's father was Conrads boss....I had not spoken to the "family" for a long time - when I heard Black was being jailed - I sent a voice mail ................"How could you guys do this to him" - it was not the courts that cuxified Conrad - it was his own group - someone had to take the fall. So others could stand...That's the system - all who were in association with Conrad - remained totally silent..that was very telling.

It has nothing to do with sacrifice: when the justice system gets overload by just a few white-collar crimes, investors, whom are all essentially risk-takers, find it all too irrational not to do the crime, in regard of the low chances to get caught.

Edited May 20, 2009 by benny

[Oleg Bach]

It has nothing to do with sacrifice: when the justice system gets overload by just a few white-collar crimes, investors, whom are all essentially risk-takers, find it all too irrational not to do the crime, in regard of the low chances to get caught.

Here is what I would call real justice - let him sit a few more months then send him back to Canada - put him under national house arrest and force him to do community service .....make him put back all he took - the rule with these types are to take and never give back to society - SURE they do the silly charity thing and the fancey social cause deal ...but they really do not contribute to society at large - This is the point that should be considered - time to bleed him the way he bled the nation and the nations - I sure the old goof will graspe the concept... Let him take his experience and expertise` and do what he should have done to begin with..build an empire that is for all not for one - one for all and all for one - Don't waste him - use him.

[benny]

Here is what I would call real justice - let him sit a few more months then send him back to Canada - put him under national house arrest and force him to do community service .....make him put back all he took - the rule with these types are to take and never give back to society - SURE they do the silly charity thing and the fancey social cause deal ...but they really do not contribute to society at large - This is the point that should be considered - time to bleed him the way he bled the nation and the nations - I sure the old goof will graspe the concept... Let him take his experience and expertise` and do what he should have done to begin with..build an empire that is for all not for one - one for all and all for one - Don't waste him - use him.

It doesn't make sense to condemn a pedophile to go babysit for free. Likewise, you don't condemn a sociopath, like Black, to do community services.

[Oleg Bach]

It doesn't make sense to condemn a pedophile to go babysit for free. Likewise, you don't condemn a sociopath, like Black, to do community services.

So you look at his image and see a man that has no empathy - incapable of sympathy - not capable for recieving love or giving it? I don't see that - I see the kid that cheated on his exams - who stole the anwers and sold them to his school mates - I see an underdevelped boy who had a father that was to distant to effect him morally -----------------------I feel sorry for him - but his wife - does she repent for pushing the fool along - probably not--- this thread has run it's course - If you want to make peace with your enemy - you love them...........

That gives them a choice - to love back and have mutual co-operation and respect - or as you love them they hate you even more - and this brings on cancer...you kill them with love...it's there choice - this is part of the old Christian doctrine that most forget - Jesus could literally love you to death - it was not just a healing thing - but a deadly weapon - literally "love you to death" ---------------------------so much for the cryptic

Point being: It would be interesting to see if you can teach a big old dog a new trick...I have faith...you do not.

[benny]

So you look at his image and see a man that has no empathy - incapable of sympathy - not capable for recieving love or giving it? I don't see that - I see the kid that cheated on his exams - who stole the anwers and sold them to his school mates - I see an underdevelped boy who had a father that was to distant to effect him morally -----------------------I feel sorry for him - but his wife - does she repent for pushing the fool along - probably not--- this thread has run it's course - If you want to make peace with your enemy - you love them...........

That gives them a choice - to love back and have mutual co-operation and respect - or as you love them they hate you even more - and this brings on cancer...you kill them with love...it's there choice - this is part of the old Christian doctrine that most forget - Jesus could literally love you to death - it was not just a healing thing - but a deadly weapon - literally "love you to death" ---------------------------so much for the cryptic

Point being: It would be interesting to see if you can teach a big old dog a new trick...I have faith...you do not.

Justice is not Charity.

[Oleg Bach]

Justice is not Charity.

So is justice for sale? Is justice only granted those that deserve it? _ let me explain the meaning of grace to you - what made us great - what noblity is - a noble is a person who can wage war - and grow food and create culture - it's about generating - generousisty - genisis.....Grace - or the term "Your Grace" - meant "The UNDESERVED mercy of God" -------------------------if we are to be noble and show grace we treat those with charity - that do not deserve it ----------that is called class - Conrad not have class - It is up to you and I to show these people what grace - and nobility really are.......

"Lord" Black -----------------the term Lord means - keeper of the bread..his duty was to sustain the people - to make sure there was enough to supply all - that all would survive ---------------Black did not understand what a Lord was - yet he wanted to be one.

[benny]

So is justice for sale? Is justice only granted those that deserve it?

Human justice is not perfect because there is always a probability that a criminal will not be condemned and/or that an innocent will be condemned.

What were for sale were financial derivatives to lower the probability of criminals of being caught by timing the moment when a flood of frauds happens.

[Oleg Bach]

Human justice is not perfect because there is always a probability that a criminal will not be condemned and/or that an innocent will be condemned.

What were for sale were financial derivatives to lower the probability of criminals of being caught by timing the moment when a flood of frauds happens.

Benny.......................all I know is one thing my dad said ---- if it came to money in the family chest - or food on the table "There are others" I guess that some are oblivious to others and the world in general - they seek pleasure at the expense of others - the glutt in luxury and see not the hungry man.....right now Conrad is tudoring the "others" now he is force to see "others" and know that no man's life is worth more that the other....this is getting tiresome - don't worry - they won't release him - usually when a good man like me demands mercy - they do the opposite - I have probably done more harm than good for Mr. Black - perhaps it's my lateral thinking - still ------------------------------- I ask a question - how many people died or committed suicide because of the ambitions of men like Black - If he drove but one to death..then let him sit - property crime is trival - murder - direct or indirect is not.

[benny]

I ask a question - how many people died or committed suicide because of the ambitions of men like Black - If he drove but one to death..then let him sit - property crime is trival - murder - direct or indirect is not.

People need money to live nowadays.