jbg Posted March 24, 2009 Report Posted March 24, 2009 There has been a grievously sad development today. A great man died (link to story). This man was a man of good works, a simple, humble man, a man of the community. Let us all mourn. Excerpts below: Lebanon blast 'kills PLO leader' At least four people, including a senior official from the Palestinian Fatah movement, have been killed in an explosion at a refugee camp in southern Lebanon, security officials say. A Fatah spokesman in the occupied West Bank said that Kamal Naji - also known as Kamal Medhat - had been "assassinated". Naji was deputy representative of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO) in Lebanon and a former Fatah intelligence chief. Munir Maqdah, who is in charge of security at the Mieh Mieh camp near the city of Sidon, said that a roadside bomb had exploded as Naji's convoy had passed on Monday. Al Jazeera's Maryam Nemazee, reporting from the scene, said that the car Naji was travelling in was thrown down a hill and reduced to a charred wreck. **************** In lieu of flowers, cash (not checks) may be sent to Al Fatah. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
dub Posted March 24, 2009 Report Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) that's the problem with arabs. there are still many of them that cannot get along with eachother. Edited March 24, 2009 by dub Quote
dub Posted March 24, 2009 Report Posted March 24, 2009 About 1.3 million Palestinian refugees who fled their homes during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war and subsequent conflicts, live in 58 refugee camps in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, the West Bank and Gaza Strip. so sad to be reminded of these poor refugees. Quote
dub Posted March 24, 2009 Report Posted March 24, 2009 speaking of cash. it's too bad for al fatah that they're not guaranteed $3 billion a year of the U.S. taxpayer's money. i guess some don't have the tragedy of the holocaust to milk. Quote
Shakeyhands Posted March 24, 2009 Report Posted March 24, 2009 just wow. Tongue in cheek, yes. Any semblence of class, no. By the way, never heard back from you on the Belinda accusation, too bad. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Rue Posted March 24, 2009 Report Posted March 24, 2009 that's the problem with arabs. there are still many of them that cannot get along with eachother. Change the word "arabs" to "Muslims", "Humans", "Jews", "christians", etc., it could equally apply of course. On this case, the inter-secretarian violence in Middle East is very much part of an over-all complex network of sub-societies within the Arab League nations and Iran fighting each other to the death and would have existed had Israel come about or not. It comes down to but one question-when a society chooses violence to express political or religious views-this is what happens and the decision to embrace violence as a means of collective expression is at the root of what is tearing apart the Muslim societies of the Middle East and no amount of scapegoating the U.S. or Israel can change that. No doubt financial interests outside the Middle East in need of energy add to it and exasperate it but at its roots-until Muslims within their societies choose to denounce violence this will continue. I hear many Muslims say violence is not what Islam is about and what it preaches. Actions however spurred on by the words of its fundamentalist clerics and terrorists claiming it justifies their violent actions is what we all keep seeing. Lebanon has always been a patch work of competing factions. The only thing keeping Lebanon quiet these days is the military monopoly Hezbollah has over the nation because its alliance with Syria and Iran. It rules by brute force not will of the people just as the Syrian, Egyptian, Sudanese, Libyan, Iraqi and Iranian governments do. As for that nation of Israel you criticize, it openly argues its political views for the most part without Jews killing each other (Rabin is a stained exception) and it is precisely why the posters who came on this and many other forums to suggest Netanyahu would embrace facism when dealing with the Palestinians can not understand what was going on the last three weeks and why he can not even if he wanted to-may want to examine what is going on with Barak today in Israel and compare that to the above incident. Quote
Rue Posted March 24, 2009 Report Posted March 24, 2009 No matter how many humans are killed, the inevitable movement to peace can not be extinguished. As many Sadats and Rabins are killed, as many terrorists make the news killing people, so too are born peaceful people spurred on by this kind of violence to resist it and provide an alternative. Out of tragedy comes strength and hope for an alternative to violence and anger. It just does not sell news stories. Quote
GostHacked Posted March 24, 2009 Report Posted March 24, 2009 that's the problem with arabs. there are still many of them that cannot get along with eachother. Replace Arabs with ... well anything .. and you will be correct. Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 24, 2009 Report Posted March 24, 2009 Replace Arabs with ... well anything .. and you will be correct. New Zealanders? Tahitians? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
dub Posted March 24, 2009 Report Posted March 24, 2009 Replace Arabs with ... well anything .. and you will be correct. if they want to achieve justice and peace, they need to approach their internal conflicts differently. Quote
jbg Posted March 24, 2009 Author Report Posted March 24, 2009 just wow. Tongue in cheek, yes. Any semblence of class, no.I was very serious. Both people on each side of the transaction were classy, constructive people. Too bad the transaction blew up.By the way, never heard back from you on the Belinda accusation, too bad.Which one? About her being bribed offered a Cabinet position as an inducement to cross the aisle and prevent PMPM from being defeated in a confidence vote during May 2005? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted March 25, 2009 Author Report Posted March 25, 2009 if they want to achieve justice and peace, they need to approach their internal conflicts differently. Finally, Dub, you're seeing the light. If they did, the Israeli borders could be like the Canadian-US border and no one would much care where it was. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
dub Posted March 25, 2009 Report Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) Finally, Dub, you're seeing the light. If they did, the Israeli borders could be like the Canadian-US border and no one would much care where it was. unfortunately, israel has been trying to redraw its borders to annex palestinian land. that's wrong. Edited March 25, 2009 by dub Quote
jbg Posted March 25, 2009 Author Report Posted March 25, 2009 unfortunately, israel has been trying to redraw its borders to annex palestinian land. that's wrong.I think the Palestinians made a tragic error by threatening Israeli safety, and making the maintenance of buffer zones a practical necessity. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
dub Posted March 25, 2009 Report Posted March 25, 2009 I think the Palestinians made a tragic error by threatening Israeli safety, and making the maintenance of buffer zones a practical necessity. it doesn't matter how many times you repeat it to yourself or others, there is nothing practical about it and it won't change the fact that these are lip service in order to steal more land. breaking international law and crapping on people's lives aside, the settlements and the annexation of their land will only reduce israel's safety. Quote
jbg Posted March 25, 2009 Author Report Posted March 25, 2009 it doesn't matter how many times you repeat it to yourself or others, there is nothing practical about it and it won't change the fact that these are lip service in order to steal more land.breaking international law and crapping on people's lives aside, the settlements and the annexation of their land will only reduce israel's safety. How frequently do victorious countries in war surrender land that they have won, without at least insisting on changes as fundamental as the ones the U.S. pushed on West Germany and Japan after WW II? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
guyser Posted March 25, 2009 Report Posted March 25, 2009 New Zealanders? No, they have sheep to work the angst out. Tahitians? They have treats. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted March 25, 2009 Report Posted March 25, 2009 How frequently do victorious countries in war surrender land that they have won, without at least insisting on changes as fundamental as the ones the U.S. pushed on West Germany and Japan after WW II? The Americans were not that serious about pushing fundamental changes on Germany in the long run - east and west Germany are united - they fulfilled Hitlers dream of one Europe under the guise of the EU...and Germany rules as planned. A very politically correct rule but a ruleing none the less..as with Japan---they tormented the last with the BOMB - felt some unfounded Christian guilt and sent them 50 million a day in aid till they destroyed our car industry - real smart...next! Quote
Oleg Bach Posted March 25, 2009 Report Posted March 25, 2009 How frequently do victorious countries in war surrender land that they have won, without at least insisting on changes as fundamental as the ones the U.S. pushed on West Germany and Japan after WW II? The Americans were not that serious about pushing fundamental changes on Germany in the long run - east and west Germany are united - they fulfilled Hitlers dream of one Europe under the guise of the EU...and Germany rules as planned. A very politically correct rule but a rule none the less..as with Japan---they tormented the last with the BOMB - felt some unfounded Christian guilt and sent them 50 million a day in aid till they destroyed our car industry - real smart.. So what's going to happen with Afghanistan and Iraq? The hooligan conquerors will install some hooligans - call it democracy and continue to expoit the place. I mean George Bush was real democratic..he belived in rule by the people and lieing to them to keep elected was the usual fare. It's like a bunch of bugs invading the territory of the other bugs and securing the food supply...and then giving the whole action some noble title - when it's just common international cannibalism. Quote
jbg Posted March 25, 2009 Author Report Posted March 25, 2009 The Americans were not that serious about pushing fundamental changes on Germany in the long run - east and west Germany are united - they fulfilled Hitlers dream of one Europe under the guise of the EU...and Germany rules as planned. A very politically correct rule but a ruleing none the less..as with Japan---they tormented the last with the BOMB - felt some unfounded Christian guilt and sent them 50 million a day in aid till they destroyed our car industry - real smart...next! My point stands. Sucks to be conquered, especially when you start the war, as the Germans did with WW II and the Arabs did in the ME. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
dub Posted March 25, 2009 Report Posted March 25, 2009 My point stands. Sucks to be conquered, especially when you start the war, as the Germans did with WW II and the Arabs did in the ME. you can keep telling yourself and others that the arabs started this whole thing but it won't change the truth that it was the zionist movement that came into the palestinian land and forced the creation of israel with the help of balfour. you can also continue lying to yourself and others that israel was ready and willing to live beside a palestinian state but it won't change the truth that the plan has always been "greater israel". Quote
GostHacked Posted March 25, 2009 Report Posted March 25, 2009 How frequently do victorious countries in war surrender land that they have won, without at least insisting on changes as fundamental as the ones the U.S. pushed on West Germany and Japan after WW II? The battle is still being fought. And Israel wants to solidify the borders by 2010. So that is all up in the air. There really is no winner here at all. And Israel has given back land they 'won'. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted March 25, 2009 Report Posted March 25, 2009 The Zionist movement originally was no so bad. Out of such movements that are generated partly in desperation and sincere want for justice...comes fanatics. The Zionists that still cling to existance today make war not with just the Arabs but with other Jews also - and they have become something that is not based in religion but family - the family - a type of mafia - You mention to a young naive Jew that there is a Jewish Mafia like with any other group - they will be shocked - they do not look at a group of conspirators as mafia - especally if most are lawyers - how can lawyers be crooks? Impossible! Quote
jbg Posted March 25, 2009 Author Report Posted March 25, 2009 You can also continue lying to yourself and others that Israel was ready and willing to live beside a Palestinian state but it won't change the truth that the plan has always been "Greater Israel". (large letters fixing omitted capitalizations in original) We don't know what would have been or could have been. What we do know is that hte Arabs have been on a largely unprovoked, murderous rampage from the get-go. There were numerous unprovoked wars and terrorist attacks (formerly known as "guerrilla attacks"). Many people forget the repeated hijackings of El Al planes back in the late 1960's and early 1970's, and the senseless slaughter of Israeli athletes at Munich. Many also forget the dashing of a nursery school child's head against a rock during an attack during 1974.Perhaps if that garbage hadn't gone down the Palestinians would be building a nation and working out the local equivalent of NAFTA and CAFTA with Israel. We'll never know. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
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