Liberal opposition critics

Argus · January 24, 2009

Which members are west of Ontario?
Neville, Martin, Bagnell and Dhaliwal (with people like Goodale, Dosanjh and Fry not in the shadow cabinet. That's some serious talent to keep on the bench.)

What talents does Hedy Fry have other than shrill political correctness and dishonesty? Dosanjh? His only obvious talent is ruthless self-promotion. Sukh Dhaliwal? The man who wrote an effusive letter in praise of a vicious Indian drug dealer, begging police to go easy on him? His talent would appear to be extremely poor judgement. Goodale's talent is more obvious. He does self-righteous indignation better than anyone in parliament. Then again, he's spent hours in front of a mirror practicing the proper look.

Seriously, how could any of them match the humility, intelligence, and selflessness of Denis Codere? LOLOLOLOL

scribblet · January 24, 2009

That's interesting because it's not the first time I heard that 'Northern Foundation' reference. I sort of dismissed it at the time thinking it was just part of that group he had spoke to when he called Canada a 'Northern European Welfare state in the worst sense of the word', and spoke of women's rights as something that would 'horrify' them.
=========

Maybe someone could provide a credible source and proof that A) this organization actually exists, that Harper is or was actually a member and C) proof that this is no more than malicious innuendo and a smear job.

scribblet · January 24, 2009

suspicions confirmed:

a scathing rebuttal

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/c/coons-...t-rebuttal.html

The list is a stunning study in guilt by association, associations which in this case no sane person would ever consider. But at least Nizkor is an equal-opportunity libeller: Jews, Catholics, women, East Indians, wicked white males of various ethnic and political persuasions--public and not-so-public figures whose only crime is conservative politics, defence of free speech, or traditionalist religious convictions--all merit inclusion along with the likes of Tom Metzger, George Burdi, and Ernst Zuendel. And the list does, to its credit, yield some real McCarthyite delights: eg. UNB math professor Matin Yaqzan "supports Malcolm Ross, is supported by Camille Paglia." Thus do the tentacles of this sinister conspiracy reach ever outward.
A few explanations of this abomination come to mind: you guys are vile beyond anything I could ever have imagined; no-one actually read this "neo-right directory" before it was archived for the world to see; or you are so massively ignorant that you don't actually know anything about those whom you have libelled.

On the optimistic assumption that the latter is the case, I would advise that you consult someone outside of your obsessive anti-racist clique and its circle of admirers, preferably some techno-peasant who still actually reads the occasional book, newspaper, or magazine, and ask him if Irving Kristol really deserves to have his name appear right above the Aryan terrorist David ("Wodensson") Lane, or why D'Souza and former Grand Wizard David Duke are not exactly soulmates.

In any event, if you have any decency at all, you will remove this trash >from your site. Quickly.

and btw, no mention of Stephen Harper being on this so called list

Molly · January 24, 2009

(SSD... thanks, and....doh!)

normanchateau · January 24, 2009

That's interesting because it's not the first time I heard that 'Northern Foundation' reference. I sort of dismissed it at the time thinking it was just part of that group he had spoke to when he called Canada a 'Northern European Welfare state in the worst sense of the word', and spoke of women's rights as something that would 'horrify' them.
There was another kind of wierd thing I read at the time but just made a joke of it, because it sounded rather silly, but it involved Conrad Black. This was around the same time as Harper was a guest of Connie's at that secretive international conference that brought demonstrations here in Canada. (Harper told reporters they were discussing 'jelly beans'). However, when he went with Conrad Black he wasn't PM. Not long after Peter MacKay's $500,000.00 debt was repaid, so I always assumed it was Black who paid it.

The relationship between the Northern Foundation and Stephen Harper is discussed in a book called "Of Passionate Intensity" by Trevor Harrison.

From pages 121-122 of the book:

"Complaining of socialist/progressive thinking, and a media/political system controlled by 'lib/left' elites, who had been 'able to impose their agenda on the Canadian people because small-'c' conservatives had been divided, the Northern Foundation was the creation of a number of generally extreme right-wing conservatives, including Anne Hartmann (a director of REAL Women), Geoffrey Wasteneys (A long-standing member

of the Alliance for the Preservation of English in Canada), George Potter (also a member of the Alliance for the Preservation of English in Canada), author Peter Brimelow, Link Byfield (son of Ted Byfield and himself publisher/president of Alberta Report), and Stephen Harper."

And from pages 263-264 of Warren Kinsella's "Web of Hate":

"The Northern Foundation's president was Rita Ann Hartmann, widow of former Western Guard activist Paul Hartmann. Hartmann had moved to Ottawa in 1987 with her six children, two of whom were skinheads who

would go on to recruit on behalf of the Heritage Front in the national capital. From there, Hartmann maintained connections with Neo-Nazi groups across North America. In March 1990, for example, she wrote to the ultra-violent Confederate Hammerskins of Tulsa, Oklahoma..."

Interesting that you mentioned Conrad Black. When it became public knowledge that he was a member of the Northern Foundation, Harper disassociated himself from the Northern Foundation. Trevor Harrison states "He had little trouble doing so as the media was largely muffled by one fact: press baron Conrad Black, then reaching the height of his powers was also a member of the Northern Foundation and equally shy about having it publicly known. Journalists feared incurring his wrath as he employed many of them at the time and was a potential employer for those that he didn't employ. Had they made the membership list public Black would have been

exposed."

There does seem to be an inconsistency in how the relationship between Harper and the Northern Foundation ended. According to Harrison: "... the foundation later banished Stephen Harper from the

movement because he was not right-wing enough; for his part, Harper now calls the foundation "quasi-Fascist." "

The problem I have with all of this is that it seems to come from a single source, i.e., one book. I don't expect that Stephen Harper will comment on the story.

Mr.Canada · January 24, 2009

If the Coalition is such a great idea supported by all why are they hiding the founder of it? Could it be that they don't want the public reminded daily of it?

normanchateau · January 24, 2009

If the Coalition is such a great idea supported by all why are they hiding the founder of it?

For the same reasons why the Conservatives don't want Stockwell Day to remind Canadians that both he and Stephen Harper believe that the Earth is 6,000 years old and that humans once rode dinosaurs Fred Flintstone-style.

Mr.Canada · January 24, 2009

Harper isn't hiding Stock Day, he is the Minister of International Trade and speaks often to the media. Meanwhile, Dion is being hidden away without a Shadow cabinet post and hidden from the media. Dion's nowhere to be found. Hardly a fitting demise for such a great leader and founder of the, very popular with Canadians, Coalition.

scribblet · January 25, 2009

Stockwell Day is very active and has actually been a very good MP, his religious views do not impact on his abilities as an MP. If Stephen Harper believes the same thing he keeps it pretty quiet, so I'm not sure how anyone would know that, perhaps some proof? Certainly there has been no impact on anything he has done; these sneaky insinuations are fortunately seen for what they are, malicious character assassination.

The same applies to that one book which is no proof whatsoever of any association with some shadowy group that we don't even know actually exists - we should fear more those who like to use this type of nefarious innuendo to manufacture fear and doubt - ditto for the religious crap, more drive by smears. I have to wonder why people are so concerned with Day and Harper's beliefs but don't seem to mind Prime Ministers who are part of a religion which believes in transubstantiation, virgin births and the infallibility of an elected Pope, to mention a few.

(not offense to Catholics, just making a point)

Edited January 25, 2009 by scriblett

normanchateau · January 25, 2009

Harper isn't hiding Stock Day, he is the Minister of International Trade and speaks often to the media.

I actually like Stock Day. He's far more personable in my opinion than Stephen Harper.

However, notice that Stock no longer talks to the media about the world being 6,000 years old nor does he discuss his Fred Flintstone view of early history. It's a lesson he learned well from his successor, Stephen Harper. Had Stock pretended not to be a religious nut when he was party leader, he might today be Prime Minister.

Progressive Tory · January 25, 2009

I think Bob Rae would be good in Foreign Affairs.
Trudeau jr. the sheeples would vote for him simply because of the name.

Bob Rae will be excellent in Foreign Affairs.

Progressive Tory · January 25, 2009

The relationship between the Northern Foundation and Stephen Harper is discussed in a book called "Of Passionate Intensity" by Trevor Harrison.
From pages 121-122 of the book:

"Complaining of socialist/progressive thinking, and a media/political system controlled by 'lib/left' elites, who had been 'able to impose their agenda on the Canadian people because small-'c' conservatives had been divided, the Northern Foundation was the creation of a number of generally extreme right-wing conservatives, including Anne Hartmann (a director of REAL Women), Geoffrey Wasteneys (A long-standing member

of the Alliance for the Preservation of English in Canada), George Potter (also a member of the Alliance for the Preservation of English in Canada), author Peter Brimelow, Link Byfield (son of Ted Byfield and himself publisher/president of Alberta Report), and Stephen Harper."

And from pages 263-264 of Warren Kinsella's "Web of Hate":

"The Northern Foundation's president was Rita Ann Hartmann, widow of former Western Guard activist Paul Hartmann. Hartmann had moved to Ottawa in 1987 with her six children, two of whom were skinheads who

would go on to recruit on behalf of the Heritage Front in the national capital. From there, Hartmann maintained connections with Neo-Nazi groups across North America. In March 1990, for example, she wrote to the ultra-violent Confederate Hammerskins of Tulsa, Oklahoma..."

Interesting that you mentioned Conrad Black. When it became public knowledge that he was a member of the Northern Foundation, Harper disassociated himself from the Northern Foundation. Trevor Harrison states "He had little trouble doing so as the media was largely muffled by one fact: press baron Conrad Black, then reaching the height of his powers was also a member of the Northern Foundation and equally shy about having it publicly known. Journalists feared incurring his wrath as he employed many of them at the time and was a potential employer for those that he didn't employ. Had they made the membership list public Black would have been

exposed."

There does seem to be an inconsistency in how the relationship between Harper and the Northern Foundation ended. According to Harrison: "... the foundation later banished Stephen Harper from the

movement because he was not right-wing enough; for his part, Harper now calls the foundation "quasi-Fascist." "

The problem I have with all of this is that it seems to come from a single source, i.e., one book. I don't expect that Stephen Harper will comment on the story.

I mentioned Conrad Black because if you follow the career of Stephen Harper, Conrad Black's name comes up along the entire path. The meeting that he attended as a guest of Connie's was Bilderberg, before he became Prime Minister:

"What is Stephen Harper, Leader of the Official Opposition and the Alliance Party of Canada doing at a super-secret elite meeting of the Western world’s central bankers, defense experts, press barons, royalty, prime ministers, international financiers, , industrialists and government officials?...Some Canadians in attendance included Conrad Black, Mark Steyn (National Post)"

Again from the "Pilgrimage of Stephen Harper" written by Christian Journalist and friend Lloyd MacKay" in the chapter "Hidden Agenda", he discusses the 'grooming of Stephen Harper' and the infamous 'Calgary School'.

The issue was "How do we fool the world into thinking we're moving to the left when we're not" (Ted Byfield. 2004 Alberta Report from the Calgary School) As a friend and fellow Evangelist, Mackey would hardly make this up. Besides it's in Byfield's report.

normanchateau · January 25, 2009

Bob Rae will be excellent in Foreign Affairs.

Bob Rae in Foreign Affairs will also neutralize the claim of CPC that they are more pro-Israel than the Liberals.

Progressive Tory · January 25, 2009

If the Coalition is such a great idea supported by all why are they hiding the founder of it? Could it be that they don't want the public reminded daily of it?

I wish you would make up your mind. One day it's led by the Bloc....Layton founded it as a desperate attempt at getting a cabinet post...now Dion is the founder. He was going to step down in May anyway. He declined a position in the shadow cabinet because he needs a break. It's a personal decision. Leave him alone.

normanchateau · January 25, 2009

I mentioned Conrad Black because if you follow the career of Stephen Harper, Conrad Black's name comes up along the entire path. The meeting that he attended as a guest of Connie's was Bilderberg, before he became Prime Minister:
"What is Stephen Harper, Leader of the Official Opposition and the Alliance Party of Canada doing at a super-secret elite meeting of the Western world’s central bankers, defense experts, press barons, royalty, prime ministers, international financiers, , industrialists and government officials?...Some Canadians in attendance included Conrad Black, Mark Steyn (National Post)"

Again from the "Pilgrimage of Stephen Harper" written by Christian Journalist and friend Lloyd MacKay" in the chapter "Hidden Agenda", he discusses the 'grooming of Stephen Harper' and the infamous 'Calgary School'.

The issue was "How do we fool the world into thinking we're moving to the left when we're not" (Ted Byfield. 2004 Alberta Report from the Calgary School) As a friend and fellow Evangelist, Mackey would hardly make this up. Besides it's in Byfield's report.

Thanks. I rarely learn something on this discussion board that I didn't already know but this is news to me.

By the way, Stephen Harper has actually written articles in Alberta Report including one on advancing the social conservative agenda while appearing not to.

Progressive Tory · January 25, 2009

I actually like Stock Day. He's far more personable in my opinion than Stephen Harper.
However, notice that Stock no longer talks to the media about the world being 6,000 years old nor does he discuss his Fred Flintstone view of early history. It's a lesson he learned well from his successor, Stephen Harper. Had Stock pretended not to be a religious nut when he was party leader, he might today be Prime Minister.

Uncompromising religious views aside, I don't like the man at all. During the 2006 election campaign he appeared on TVOntario with Steve Pakin. Pakin asked him if Harper's pro-Iraq war position would hurt him, and instead of answering the question, he adamantly stated that Stephen Harper NEVER thought that Canada should go to Iraq.

Mr. Pakin knew he was lying so rephrased the question, twice. Still the same answer. He could see that Day was about to blow so moved on. The moment wasn't lost and the latest taped speech confirms that Day was lying. In fact: "In March 2003 Day and Harper co-wrote a letter to The Wall Street Journal in which they condemned the Canadian government's unwillingness to participate in the 2003 invasion of Iraq." Much of that letter was from the plaguerized Howard speech.

The same things that caused the Alliance to break away under Chuch Srahl and Deborah Grey, still stand. Stockwell Day is a man of little integrity. Hiring private investigators, bribing MPs for ridings...the man is a crook (and a freak)

Mr.Canada · January 25, 2009

I wish you would make up your mind. One day it's led by the Bloc....Layton founded it as a desperate attempt at getting a cabinet post...now Dion is the founder. He was going to step down in May anyway. He declined a position in the shadow cabinet because he needs a break. It's a personal decision. Leave him alone.

Hrmmm. New poll I just saw on CTV Newsnet claims that 48% of Canada prefers a new election if government fails and only 38% prefer a Coalition government while 66% of Canadians support deficit spending. No way will Igantieff vote against the budget, no way.

Progressive Tory · January 25, 2009

Hrmmm. New poll I just saw on CTV Newsnet claims that 48% of Canada prefers a new election if government fails and only 38% prefer a Coalition government while 66% of Canadians support deficit spending. No way will Igantieff vote against the budget, no way.

I don't think Ignatieff will vote against the budget. I think there will be a lot of back and forth. Harper is now saying the deficit will hit 64 billion. That's a little unsettling. Ignatieff's requests are only:

1. We need a legitimate accounting.

2. There are no broad base tax cuts that will extend the deficit once the recession is over.

3. The biggest part of the deficit spending is on infastructure. (As per poll of Canadians who don't want tax cuts but spending on infastructure to create jobs)

Ignatieff says that when the budget is presented, he will take his time and review it one page at a time; going over every detail with his economic team. No tricks or games will be allowed. I hope that Flaherty has learned his lesson.

However, the spirit of non-Confidence will remain and I give the gov't maybe six months.

Remember, that in 2004, despite the fact that Harper's Coalition did not get a chance to take over, he was still promoting it six months later as an alternative to an election. (as per link in my signature) The budget may be the first issue but not the last.

scribblet · January 26, 2009

Stockwell Day aside, there is no such Northern Association, or if there is there is NO proof that Harper is or was a member. Oh yes, our friends at 'The Canadian National ' Newspaper, or rather the Nationalist Canadian Website, which bills itself as the 'socially progressive, cross-cultural national news source'- 'Progressive' apparently being a synonym for 'pretentious'.... but lacking any coherent 'progressive' policy doctrine, spend 99.9% of their time denouncing those they see as 'enemies of the people'. - a real hoot, but not based on any reality.

They try to isolate themselves by using qualifiers like 'apparently', and 'alleged', etc. with the 'source' being a book by some guy- Trevor Harrison written in 1996 about Reform.

The author of the smear piece is one Peter Trembley, I couldn't find anything else on him, but did find pieces on the same site denouncing Paul Martin, Iggy, & Jack Layton as enemies of the people/ traitors to the country for this and that perceived lack of correct progressiveness. Somehow they even manage to denounce both the Global Warming Alarmists and Sceptics for both being fronts of the evil corporate forces of globalization.. and so on, not worth reading further.

Their 'progressive' dark fears seem to be guided by some unfounded belief that Harper, and all, 'right-wing' politicians, are guided by some secret desires to resurrect the third Reich.

booga booga

Alexandra · January 26, 2009

Stockwell Day aside, there is no such Northern Association, or if there is there is NO proof that Harper is or was a member. Oh yes, our friends at 'The Canadian National ' Newspaper, or rather the Nationalist Canadian Website, which bills itself as the 'socially progressive, cross-cultural national news source'- 'Progressive' apparently being a synonym for 'pretentious'.... but lacking any coherent 'progressive' policy doctrine, spend 99.9% of their time denouncing those they see as 'enemies of the people'. - a real hoot, but not based on any reality.
They try to isolate themselves by using qualifiers like 'apparently', and 'alleged', etc. with the 'source' being a book by some guy- Trevor Harrison written in 1996 about Reform.

Their 'progressive' dark fears seem to be guided by some unfounded belief that Harper, and all, 'right-wing' politicians, are guided by some secret desires to resurrect the third Reich.

booga booga

This reminds me of Dancer's 'talking toasters' when referring to one of Topaz's comments.

We have Progressive Tory citing three 'sources' for her unblemished truther that the Tory's will deep six S. Harper. One source was from a blog in New Brunswick which cited as it's sources for this profound truth. Sources from within the Conservative party. Right, it's those un-named 'sources' again. The second source cited by Ms. P. Tory was an article on Ed Broadbent expounding on the 'separatist Bloc' and, this third source referred to 'two mysterious Conservative websites' which were set up to rid the party of S. Harper and suggesting Jim Prentice for leadership. Well. If you read the actual websites one startling discovery was that David Higginbottom wrote re the two 'mysterious guys who set up the websites", as follows:

"November 30, 2008 11:28 AM

David Higginbottom said...

As Jim Prentice’s riding president and campaign manager in the recent federal election, I feel it necessary to make several points to those who are posting on this blog as well as the architects of this site. First and foremost is the fact that this site is neither endorsed, supported nor in any way encouraged by Mr. Prentice, nor any of the people who work or volunteer for him – in fact quite the opposite is true.

It is unfortunate that at a time when conservatives need to be working together to prevent what is a desperate power play by the opposition to seize control of our democratically elected government, that a site like this would be created. All conservatives and any Canadians who believe in democracy and the importance of stability during this time of economic crisis should follow Mr. Prentice’s unwavering support of and loyalty to our leader and our Prime Minister, Stephen Harper.

David Higginbottom

President, Calgary Centre North Conservative EDA

November 30, 2008 12:07 PM"

In all probability these websites were set up by the --"Progressives of the Liberal-NDP parties" and of course those with the only intent on posting this type of trash on this board is to maliciously smear the object of their dislike or hatred.

`

Edited January 26, 2009 by Alexandra

Molly · January 26, 2009

Scriblett, I hope you also checked out 'some guy- Trevor Harrison', to find out something of what he actually had to say, and whether he was qualified to say it.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Molly

Mr.Canada · January 26, 2009

Bob Rae will be excellent in Foreign Affairs.

Yeah, you certainly don't want him in finance eh? Remember the good work he did in Ontario.

madmax · January 26, 2009

Yeah, you certainly don't want him in finance eh? Remember the good work he did in Ontario.

Flaherty and Harper support LARGE DEFICITS. Much like Rae and Mulroney.....

What's your point?

Mr.Canada · January 26, 2009

Flaherty and Harper support LARGE DEFICITS. Much like Rae and Mulroney.....
What's your point?

At this time every party supports increased spending and a deficit as do the majority of Canadians. The people have spoken.

Argus · January 26, 2009

At this time every party supports increased spending and a deficit as do the majority of Canadians. The people have spoken.

The people are sheep, easily panicked, easily herded. To listen to the media you'd think we were in the middle of another great depression. Instead, employment remains high, and the Bank of Canada expects the economy to resurge in a year or so.