Iran invasion soon?

[SavageXP]

I've been searching for a good discussion forum and this seems to be a nice place to talk to others about global politics seeing as how I too live in Canada.

I came accross an interesting video by typing in March on Iran into youtube, the term reminded me of the media frenzy during the so called March on Iraq.

It turned up an interesting result of a similar name, although the video was just released it seems and the production quality slightly sub par compared to say the BBC lol, it posed a very interesting summation that if a war on Iran were to occur it will happen in the near future following the current conflict in the Gaza strip.

I'd like to see what others oppinions are on this matter.

Heres a link to the youtube video for interests sake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5vkn5HprHk

[dub]

i usually look at the people around the president, mainly the foreign policy advisers, to determine which direction he is going to go towards. here is a list of them with a brief description. most are clintonites. http://www.newsweek.com/id/139894/page/1

it will also depend on how much power and influence the israeli lobby will have on this administration. it was that lobby with its close relationship with cheney, rumsfeld and wolfowitz which took U.S. into the iraq war.

Edited January 19, 2009 by dub

[bush_cheney2004]

...it will also depend on how much power and influence the israeli lobby will have on this administration. it was that lobby with its close relationship with cheney, rumsfeld and wolfowitz which took U.S. into the iraq war.

Utter nonsense, as it was US Public Law to strangle Iraq to death long before that. American foreign policy included attacks, special forces ops, no-fly zones, sanctions, and support for autonomous Kurds.

When America invades another nation, it does so for American reasons (not AIPAC).

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0907/5925.html

Edited January 19, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[dub]

Utter nonsense, as it was US Public Law to strangle Iraq to death long before that. American foreign policy included attacks, special forces ops, no-fly zones, sanctions, and support for autonomous Kurds.

When America invades another nation, it does so for American reasons (not AIPAC).

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0907/5925.html

not sure why you're posting that article. many of the democrats also know where to stand when AIPAC is mentioned. they know how much power AIPAC has and they need to keep them happy. this is why many of the democrats voted for the war. they were lobbied strongly by AIPAC.

what do you think AIPAC does? how much do you know about the relationship between AIPAC and bush's present and former advisers?

because if you want, i would be happy to share the information with you.

Edited January 19, 2009 by dub

[bush_cheney2004]

what do you think AIPAC does? how much do you know about the relationship between AIPAC and bush's present and former advisers?

I think you need to learn how to reference the "israeli lobby" first if you are going to make such allegations. Then we can play the tired Wolfowitz game in another thread.

because if you want, i would be happy to share the information with you.

Obviously, I don't need your "help" in such matters.

[dub]

I think you need to learn how to reference the "israeli lobby" first if you are going to make such allegations. Then we can play the tired Wolfowitz game in another thread.

what do you mean?

is it wrong to say the jewish lobby? because israel is a proud jewish state and i believe i'm using "the jewish" lobby in a correct context.

so what do you think AIPAC does? what is their interest?

[bush_cheney2004]

what do you mean?

is it wrong to say the jewish lobby? because israel is a proud jewish state and i believe i'm using "the jewish" lobby in a correct context.

You are mistaken, of course, as the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) is an American lobby for Israeli interests. It is not just a "Jewish lobby".

[dub]

You are mistaken, of course, as the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) is an American lobby for Israeli interests. It is not just a "Jewish lobby".

i don't get where you're trying to go with this.

AIPAC lobbies the government in favour of israel, does it not?

[Argus]

i don't get where you're trying to go with this.

AIPAC lobbies the government in favour of israel, does it not?

Lots of people lobby the government for lots of reasons, and spend lots of money on lots of senators and congressmen. I do not think, however, that the Israeli lobby had much to do with the US going to war against Iraq. Nor, ultimately, will it decide on the US going to war with Iran. In fact, I doubt the US has any intention of doing so. In all likelihood Israel will take out Iran's nuclear capabilities on its own, with tacit American agreement. But whether the US agrees or not I do not see Israel allowing Iran to develop nuclear weapons.

[bush_cheney2004]

i don't get where you're trying to go with this.

AIPAC lobbies the government in favour of israel, does it not?

By definition, lobbyists "lobby" government representatives to achieve their client's objectives. AIPAC is different in that it it is not a PAC and is member supported. Several members have been prosecuted for non-registration and information security felonies when discovered.

We also have professional lobbyists from Canada...lots of 'em...so which religion are they?

[Higgly]

A very good thread.

The Key is Lebanon.

I feel nothing can be resolved until Dick Cheney answers for his crimes in the Hague.

America is nothing until it recognizes the World Court.

Truth and reconciliation.

Present!

[dub]

By definition, lobbyists "lobby" government representatives to achieve their client's objectives. AIPAC is different in that it it is not a PAC and is member supported. Several members have been prosecuted for non-registration and information security felonies when discovered.

We also have professional lobbyists from Canada...lots of 'em...so which religion are they?

this is from AIPAC: Consistently ranked as the most influential foreign policy lobbying organization on Capitol Hill, AIPAC is an American membership organization that seeks to strengthen the relationship between the United States and Israel.

what do you think they lobby the government for when it comes to foreign policy?

to claim that AIPAC has no position on iraq defies the imagination.

the Lieberman-Kyl Amendment which declared Iran's Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization has been found to be drafted by AIPAC.

in september 2002, AIPAC spokesperson rebecca needler told the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, “If the president asks Congress to support action in Iraq, AIPAC would lobby members to support him.”

january 2003, according to the New York Sun, Howard Kohr, AIPAC executive director said, “AIPAC’s successes over the year also include guaranteeing Israel’s annual aid package and ‘quietly’ lobbying Congress to approve the use of force in Iraq.”

[bush_cheney2004]

this is from AIPAC: Consistently ranked as the most influential foreign policy lobbying organization on Capitol Hill, AIPAC is an American membership organization that seeks to strengthen the relationship between the United States and Israel.

Still playing catch up? We already know this.

what do you think they lobby the government for when it comes to foreign policy?

American - Israeli interests.

to claim that AIPAC has no position on iraq defies the imagination.

Nobody claimed that...AIPAC specifically took no official position on the invasion of Iraq because of the obvious scrutiny it would bring.

Now, how about those Canadian lobbyists?

Edited January 20, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[dub]

Still playing catch up? We already know this.

American - Israeli interests.

Nobody claimed that...AIPAC specifically took no official position on the invasion of Iraq because of the obvious scrutiny it would bring.

Now, how about those Canadian lobbyists?

what exactly are you trying to argue? you're all over the place.

my argument is that AIPAC lobbies the america government for the interest of israel; like pushing the U.S. to pay over $4billion a year to israel. AIPAC has also pushed congress to support the war on iraq and has been lobbying congress to support a war on iran. so far they've achieved 2 out of 3. do you disagree with this? because if you disagree, you're not being an honest person.

Edited January 20, 2009 by dub

[bush_cheney2004]

what exactly are you trying to argue? you're all over the place.

Well, I had to take time to show you the way to AIPAC.

my argument is that AIPAC lobbies america for the interest of israel; like pushing the congress to support the war on iraq and a war on iran. or pushing the U.S. to pay over $4billion a year to israel. do you disagree with this? because if you disagree, you're not being an honest person.

Again, I have already stated AIPAC's role....but it is still an AMERICAN lobby (for Israeli interests).

Israel's US aid is not $4 billion per year, nor is it "pushed" any more than billions in aid given to Jordan, Egypt, or even Palestine, among many others nations.

[dub]

Well, I had to take time to show you the way to AIPAC.

Again, I have already stated AIPAC's role....but it is still an AMERICAN lobby (for Israeli interests).

okay. AIPAC is registered in america but it lobbies for israeli interests. are you fighting for the wording of how AIPAC is described? because at the end, the main point is that AIPAC lobbied for the war on iraq because it was good for israel.

Israel's US aid is not $4 billion per year, nor is it "pushed" any more than billions in aid given to Jordan, Egypt, or even Palestine, among many others nations.

your denial would be more effective if you actually tried to correct what you perceive as a mistake.

what is US aid to israel?

do you know the proportion of US foreign aid that goes to the countries you've listed?

Edited January 20, 2009 by dub

[bush_cheney2004]

okay. AIPAC is registered in america but it lobbies for israeli interests. are you fighting for the wording of how AIPAC is described? because at the end, the main point is that AIPAC lobbied for the war on iraq because it was good for israel.

Even if that were true (it isn't)...so what? AMERICA lobbied for the war in Iraq...all by itself since 1991. When America wants war...then there shall be war.

your denial would be more effective if you actually tried to correct what you perceive as a mistake.

What are you rambling about? AIPAC and American foreign policy over the past 100 years are well defined...we invented the internet and Google to help you figure these things out on your own.

what is US aid to israel?

...it is dimimishing...that's what.

do you know the proportion of US foreign aid that goes to the countries you've listed?

Of course I do.....now you do too.

Edited January 21, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[dub]

Even if that were true (it isn't)...so what? AMERICA lobbied for the war in Iraq...all by itself since 1991. When America wants war...then there shall be war.

What are you rambling about? AIPAC and American foreign policy over the past 100 years are well defined...we invented the internet and Google to help you figure these things out on your own.

...it is dimimishing...that's what.

Of course I do.....now you do too.

that's good. you've proven that you can press reply. now if only you had more than just empty responses to show for.

if U.S. does not give $4billion a year to israel, then by all means, tell me how much they give to israel.

[M.Dancer]

if U.S. does not give $4billion a year to israel, then by all means, tell me how much they give to israel.

Israel, long since the US' top recipient of foreign aid, will receive USD 2.4 billion. Since 1979 and the Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty, Israel has annually received up to USD 3 billion in aid.

As part of with an initiative by then-Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, the civilian aid has been steadily decreased over the course of the past 10 years, going from USD 1.2 million to being completely cancelled this year. At the same time military aid to Israel has increased from USD 1.8 billion to USD 2.4 billion.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3362402,00.html

BC 2004 is correct

[bush_cheney2004]

that's good. you've proven that you can press reply. now if only you had more than just empty responses to show for.

if U.S. does not give $4billion a year to israel, then by all means, tell me how much they give to israel.

Jeezus Khrist....do I have to Google that for you too...just like "AIPAC"?

Looks like Dancer has shown you some mercy.....

If you don't like what the Americans do in the way of military, economic, and humanitarian aid just say so....no need to make stuff up.

[dub]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3362402,00.html

BC 2004 is correct

both of you are incorrect.

you left out the $1.4 billion in loan guarantees that was also paid.

1/5th of US foreign aid goes to israel. it has been for decades.

[M.Dancer]

both of you are incorrect.

you left out the $1.4 billion in loan guarantees that was also paid.

So you think a loan guarentee is what? Besides a co-sign....care to show where the US paid the money that Israel defaulted on?

1/5th of US foreign aid goes to israel. it has been for decades.

$27.3 billion in foreign aid in 2006

So now you'r saying Israel gets 5,46 billion?

[dub]

So you think a loan guarentee is what? Besides a co-sign....care to show where the US paid the money that Israel defaulted on?

they made $1.4 billion in loan guarantees available to israel in 2007. here is something else that you will learn today:

THE STRATEGIC FUNCTIONS OF U.S. AID TO ISRAEL

By Stephen Zunes

Dr. Zunes is an assistant professor in the Department of Politics at the University of San Francisco

Since 1992, the U.S. has offered Israel an additional $2 billion annually in loan guarantees. Congressional researchers have disclosed that between 1974 and 1989, $16.4 billion in U.S. military loans were converted to grants and that this was the understanding from the beginning. Indeed, all past U.S. loans to Israel have eventually been forgiven by Congress, which has undoubtedly helped Israel's often-touted claim that they have never defaulted on a U.S. government loan.

in other words, any loan given to israel is eventually forgiven.

[M.Dancer]

they made $1.4 billion in loan guarantees available to israel in 2007. here is something else that you will learn today:

THE STRATEGIC FUNCTIONS OF U.S. AID TO ISRAEL

By Stephen Zunes

Dr. Zunes is an assistant professor in the Department of Politics at the University of San Francisco

Since 1992, the U.S. has offered Israel an additional $2 billion annually in loan guarantees. Congressional researchers have disclosed that between 1974 and 1989, $16.4 billion in U.S. military loans were converted to grants and that this was the understanding from the beginning. Indeed, all past U.S. loans to Israel have eventually been forgiven by Congress, which has undoubtedly helped Israel's often-touted claim that they have never defaulted on a U.S. government loan.

in other words, any loan given to israel is eventually forgiven.

So you don't understand..that's okay (pats dub on the head). When they get converted to aid, they become part of the aid package...never the less. loan guarentees are not aid...no cash is exchanged.

[dub]

So you don't understand..that's okay (pats dub on the head). When they get converted to aid, they become part of the aid package...never the less. loan guarentees are not aid...no cash is exchanged.

eh?

are you pretending that you don't understand the function or are you having a bad day and not understanding something this simple?

U.S. gives a loan to israel, and then congress forgives these loans. at the end, israel doesn't pay these loans back and instead, the loan is accumulated towards the U.S. deficit.

it doesn't get any simpler than this.