Deficit financing

Mr.Canada · January 18, 2009

LOL whowhere get off it. Quite the imagination you have. Obama is going to save the world, did you forget? He is your hero. Having second thoughts?

capricorn · January 18, 2009

Infrastructure spending is luxury spending, so NO NO NO!. In Recessions its time to cut Government spending, decrease taxes and grant tax credits to encourage business risks.

Yesterday in your post (#45) in the Iggy flip-flop thread you said:

The fact is no one is entitled to anything. No to tax cuts but yes to tax increases for the so called middle class.

whowhere, am I missing something? Which is it? Do you think tax cuts are a good thing at this time or are they not?

whowhere · January 18, 2009

LOL whowhere get off it. Quite the imagination you have. Obama is going to save the world, did you forget? He is your hero. Having second thoughts?

The Fact is the Americans can't pay their mortgages and auto loans and the US owes 1.3 Trillion in Treasury Bills to china. The chinese want their money and the US doesn't have it but some how they have trillions to spend on bail outs.

Where is the money coming from??

The world is going to see what the US is up to and they are going to figure it out. When they do, the US currency is going for a dive. If Canada is smart they will start demanding Euros from the US for Canada's oil and other resources. The US ship is going down. The US will not go down without a fight. That fight will be the withdrawal of troops from Iraq and redeployed across the mexican border.

Canada will have to decide if it wants Printed US money or Europes real money.

bush_cheney2004 · January 18, 2009

....The world is going to see what the US is up to and they are going to figure it out. When they do, the US currency is going for a dive. If Canada is smart they will start demanding Euros from the US for Canada's oil and other resources. The US ship is going down....

Then it won't be the only ship going down.....it will be dive...dive for Canada too.

Canada will have to decide if it wants Printed US money or Europes real money.

It has already decided....long ago.

Sir Bandelot · January 18, 2009

The ponzi scheme upon which our economy is based has run its course. As a result over the past 20 years prices for essential items, food and fuel have continued to climb but wages have not risen to match, for obvious reasons (so the bankers and big business can line their pockets) but now a number of catastrophes have come together to create the perfect financial shit-storm. The icing on this cow-patty is the environment. For years we have heard about the coming environmental crisis... in the 80's we had the introduction of green technology and products. Attempts we made to make "green" tech a profitable venture. But because of the greed of business and lack of real regulation, green tech could not compete with the cheaper old-school alternatives. Then came the rise of the third world economies, much lower prices due to complete lack of environmental regulations. No standards for product safety means, the ability to use cheap alternative chemicals, cheap labour and irresponsible waste disposal. The hope and intentions of green technology was obliterated by the greed of multinationals.

But today we at last see the backlash. Consumer spending is way down.. why? People are doing what governments and corporations could never do, they exercise their free will NOT to buy more junk! And no amount of infrastructure spending will change that! Even though people have money, the cheapest credit ever available, they CHOOSE not to spend for the simple fact that they really don't need it. And with the news of global warming, ecosystem collapse, toxic products sold by big business people have, almost subconsciously begun to look elsewhere for there good and services. A return to local economies, fair trade not "free trade", efforts within communities to become self sustaining after catastrophes like Katrina, raised the consciousness of people to a level of distrust of corporations, lack of confidence in government and rejection of the material exess of previous generations. What we see today is only the beginning... as long as the environment continues to worsen and we hear more doom and gloom end-is-nigh statements from scientists and the media, people will continue to withold spending. And rightly so- if we are to survive, the future should be more about increasing efficiency and sharing. So their invstment of trillions of dollars is a mere band-aid solution for the inevitable collapse.

punked · January 18, 2009

I doubt you even have a job so it doesn't matter we're in recession or not punked does it? There is no need to panic needlessly. We must be prudent when talking about Billions of dollars. It isn't something that must be decided by knee jerk reactions. Dion and Layton wanted to spend Billions before we even heard what the Americans are going to do. These are American companies for crying out loud.

Obama will be in office for a week when Harper brings down our budget. You think Harper knows what Obama will do? Nope. We should have brought this money down a long time ago.

PS I do have a job.

Mr.Canada · January 18, 2009

Obama will be in office for a week when Harper brings down our budget. You think Harper knows what Obama will do? Nope. We should have brought this money down a long time ago.
PS I do have a job.

There seems to be a variety of responses from the left wing. Sometimes you don't want any deficits, then you want smaller deficits or bigger deficits. Raise taxes, cut taxes further. More money sooner, less money sooner. The left needs to get its priorities together so you guys cab have one voice.

Peter F · January 18, 2009

There seems to be a variety of responses from the left wing. Sometimes you don't want any deficits, then you want smaller deficits or bigger deficits. Raise taxes, cut taxes further. More money sooner, less money sooner. The left needs to get its priorities together so you guys cab have one voice.

What are you talking about? One minute Sid Ryan speaks for us all, the next minute we have multiple voices? Maybe you can try to get your

s--t together and be consistent in your trolling.

Mr.Canada · January 18, 2009

What are you talking about? One minute Sid Ryan speaks for us all, the next minute we have multiple voices? Maybe you can try to get your
s--t together and be consistent in your trolling.

Sid Ryan is one of a few socialist leaders when any one of them speak they represent the left wing secular socialist agenda. Clear enough. I wrote this many times, seems to be a problem with reading comprehension. I'm no troll, I'm a right wing truth sayer.

capricorn · January 18, 2009

Obama will be in office for a week when Harper brings down our budget. You think Harper knows what Obama will do? Nope.

The media is chock full of articles detailing what Obama said he would do once he becomes President. You think Harper and Iggy, and their aides haven't studied that information?

Whether Obama will keep his word is another matter. After all, he is a politician and we know what politicians tend do when they take office.

bush_cheney2004 · January 18, 2009

The media is chock full of articles detailing what Obama said he would do once he becomes President. You think Harper and Iggy, and their aides haven't studied that information?

Nope...Obama was offering up rhetoric during a political campaign.

Whether Obama will keep his word is another matter. After all, he is a politician and we know what politicians tend do when they take office.

See above. Canada will just have to react like it always does.

capricorn · January 18, 2009

Nope...Obama was offering up rhetoric during a political campaign.

I get your point bc. For me, everything a politician says before taking office is rhetorical. :lol:

I found a good synopsis of Obama rhetoric on the economy at

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

bush_cheney2004 · January 18, 2009

....I found a good synopsis of Obama rhetoric on the economy at
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

Yep....those are wonderful examples of meaningless campaign rhetoric. The political and fiscal realities are about smack President Obama right in the ass.

Something more relevant to Canada is happening in this process....as if there is little confidence in whatever will happen in Ottawa or the provinces...or which party even survives in power to make it happen. Obama cannot work miracles, and certainly not for Canada.

Canada will need a game plan that isn't dependent on Obama.

capricorn · January 19, 2009

Will government spending help get us out of depression or just make a bad situation much worse??

Well krazy k, it looks like there will be big time spending coming soon. Canadians have been primed for it and they expect it.

Government spending is not exclusively the government's plan. The Opposition has been calling for massive spending for months. Even economists are saying now is not the time to cut government spending and spending will provide economic stimulus.

The latest information available from the Liberals is that they would spend $30B in a stimulus package.

"I think we already said that we would invest $30-billion. That's in line with the G20 amount," said Martha Hall Findlay, a high-profile Liberal MP.
She could not say whether that amount would be spent over one year or two.

Media reports have cited the $30-billion stimulus figure but John McCallum, also a Liberal and senior economic advisor to the party leadership, has declined to confirm it on numerous occasions this week.

On Tuesday, Liberal Member of Parliament David McGuinty also cited that number when talking of fiscal stimulus.

"We're heading for a period of deflation if we don't actually prime the pump and we don't actually have a serious economic stimulus package -- $30-billion minimum," he said.

When asked if the $30-billion figure was the coalition's official policy, he appeared to downplay the number.

"Thirty billion is the number we use," he said.

http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/national/...html?id=1026765

Ignatieff is blaming the Conservatives for creating a deficit even before he has seen the budget.

Before the meeting, Ignatieff lay the blame for the projected multi-billion-dollar budget deficit on Prime Minister Stephen Harper, saying he "spent us down to the red line" after years of Liberal surpluses.
Ignatieff said Harper must take sole responsibility for a budget deficit that is expected to reach as high as $40 billion.

----

"This budget has three simple tests that it must pass," he told Liberal MPs and senators on Sunday.

"Will it protect the most vulnerable? Will it save jobs? And most important of all, will it create the jobs of tomorrow?"

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

It's true that the Conservatives spent the surplus. But how did they spend it? Some of it was spent on income tax cuts. As a result, tax freedom day comes 7 days earlier than when the Liberals were in power. This resulting increase in the disposable income of working Canadians continues and has a beneficial impact on the economy. In addition, the Conservatives paid $40B against the debt thereby reducing the cost of servicing the debt. So while the Liberals whine that the cupboard is bare, the surplus was put to good use regardless of whether the funds were spent in good times or bad times.

Here's the deal. Everyone agrees on the need for a large stimulus package. The Liberals are accusing the Conservatives of running a huge deficit. Let's say the budget is defeated and the Liberal/NDP/Bloc coalition take over and implement their own $30B stimulus plan, who would the Liberals then blame for the deficit?

punked · January 19, 2009

It's true that the Conservatives spent the surplus. But how did they spend it? Some of it was spent on income tax cuts. As a result, tax freedom day comes 7 days earlier than when the Liberals were in power. This resulting increase in the disposable income of working Canadians continues and has a beneficial impact on the economy. In addition, the Conservatives paid $40B against the debt thereby reducing the cost of servicing the debt. So while the Liberals whine that the cupboard is bare, the surplus was put to good use regardless of whether the funds were spent in good times or bad times.
Here's the deal. Everyone agrees on the need for a large stimulus package. The Liberals are accusing the Conservatives of running a huge deficit. Let's say the budget is defeated and the Liberal/NDP/Bloc coalition take over and implement their own $30B stimulus plan, who would the Liberals then blame for the deficit?

NO they spent the entire surplus on 50 Billion of Cooperate Tax cuts which a lot of people said was a bad idea at the time.

Smallc · January 19, 2009

In addition, the Conservatives paid $40B against the debt thereby reducing the cost of servicing the debt.

And now, they're about to wipe those payments out.

Mr.Canada · January 19, 2009

And now, they're about to wipe those payments out.

Absolutely false. The Separatist Bloc Led NDP/Liberal Coalition would raise the deficit by $100B while raising corporate taxes in an economic recession. Oh let's not forget the impact of the additional $40B Green Shift Tax. None of this would effect Quebec of coarse but the rest of Canada would pay the price for a prosperous Quebec.

Smallc · January 19, 2009

Absolutely false.

Absolutely not false.

capricorn · January 19, 2009

And now, they're about to wipe those payments out.

No problem. When the Liberals take over they may just raise taxes for the middle class and the business sector, raid the EI fund and cut transfers to the provinces to work up a surplus. You know, the usual Liberal stuff.

Mr.Canada · January 19, 2009

Absolutely not false.

LOL. Did you read the rest of the post?

Smallc · January 19, 2009

LOL. Did you read the rest of the post?

The rest of the post was absolutely meaningless.

Smallc · January 19, 2009

You know, the usual Liberal stuff.

If by usual Liberal stuff you mean eliminating Conservative deficits, then yes.

We don't need to be here right now, and that's the real problem I have with this. Its necessary because of where we are, but it shouldn't have been necessary. Taxes were cut too deep and spending was increased too fast. I believed that the government knew what it was doing. I was wrong. I won't be voting for the Conservative party ever again as long as Stephen Harper remains at the helm.

capricorn · January 19, 2009

Taxes were cut too deep and spending was increased too fast.

But that is exactly what is being called for in a stimulus package. Lower taxes and spending. Even the Liberal party is talking along these lines, mind you not for the middle class. Because tax cuts and spending came earlier does that negate the benefits it brings to the economy?

Mr.Canada · January 19, 2009

The rest of the post was absolutely meaningless.

Here it ios so you can try to find the meaning of it and you'll see it absolute truth.

The Separatist Bloc Led NDP/Liberal Coalition would raise the deficit by $100B while raising corporate taxes in an economic recession. Oh let's not forget the impact of the additional $40B Green Shift Tax. None of this would effect Quebec of coarse but the rest of Canada would pay the price for a prosperous Quebec.

Smallc · January 19, 2009

But that is exactly what is being called for in a stimulus package. Lower taxes and spending.

Unfortunately, we don't have any money left to do such things with, so we have to borrow it. That means that not only do we go into deficit, but we also use up precious resources within an already tight credit market.