Abortion Reform Poll

[Progressive Tory]

Well given the amount of heated discussion we've been having on the topic. I thought it acceptable and interesting to hold a poll on the subject.

Posting a comment isn't necessary but it would be nice if everyone voted. So we can see how MLW as a whole stands on the issue.

Pro Choicers advocate for killing babies then advocate for child rights the next day... ??????

Pro-Lifers protest against abortion and then advocate to have our soldiers kill women and children, including babies, the next day.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Progressive Tory

[Mr.Canada]

No it is not because that is how our country is built so the majority gets to lead. However in a Democracy and I know that world escapes you, there are absolute rights we should protected. If you and 51% of Canada woke up tomorrow and decided hey lets put all the Muslims in a city and build a wall around it so we don't have to interact with them. You are encroaching on there rights to live in a free nation. No one is allowed to do that. That is what we have a Constitution and courts to decide when laws and rights are being destroyed. The Majority does not get to do wrong to the minority in the name of some law they past.

So you're saying that it's a human right to kill babies? You're also saying that it's wrong to want to babies from being killed and to protect our mothers. We need abortion reform, there must be limits. Having the ability to have an abortion in the ninth month is wrong.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

So you're saying that it's a human right to kill babies? You're also saying that it's wrong to want to babies from being killed and to protect our mothers. We need abortion reform, there must be limits. Having the ability to have an abortion in the ninth month is wrong.

Do you favour the death penalty?

[Mr.Canada]

This topic is about Abortion. We can have a death Penalty debate in another topic if you wish.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[punked]

So you're saying that it's a human right to kill babies? You're also saying that it's wrong to want to babies from being killed and to protect our mothers. We need abortion reform, there must be limits. Having the ability to have an abortion in the ninth month is wrong.

No I am saying it is a womens right to do so as she choses to her body. It is not your right to legislate to her what she should do with her body. Deal with it. You know for a fact I think it is not killing a baby so why would you even think that was what I was saying?

Here let put it too you think way. Say I was dying and the only way I could live was to have you and only you attached to me so our organs acted as one. Should the government say ok Mr. Canada you need to be in a bed for the rest of your life so Punked can be attached to you otherwise he will die? It is your body the government does not force people to be organ donors? Why not 200 people a year die in Canada because there aren't enough of them.

[ToadBrother]

I'm only seeing 3 votes favouring a Pro-Life stance, the rest are Pro-Choice to varying degrees....all recognizing a woman's right to choose, with some placing limitations based on how far along the pregnancy is.

The poll isn't terribly scientific, but I think it bears out reasonably well the position of the majority of Canadians. No one likes abortion, and I'm sure every single pro-choice advocate wishes that this was all a moot point. Most Canadians do not view themselves, as Mr. Canada and his ilk do, as Christ's messengers on Earth, put here to dictate their own self-righteous moral stances on people they've never met, have no intention of getting to know or even supporting.

Lump this together with Mr. Canada's other delightful opinions, and either you've got a rather clever troll or one nasty, bigoted guy.

[Mr.Canada]

The poll isn't terribly scientific, but I think it bears out reasonably well the position of the majority of Canadians. No one likes abortion, and I'm sure every single pro-choice advocate wishes that this was all a moot point. Most Canadians do not view themselves, as Mr. Canada and his ilk do, as Christ's messengers on Earth, put here to dictate their own self-righteous moral stances on people they've never met, have no intention of getting to know or even supporting.

Lump this together with Mr. Canada's other delightful opinions, and either you've got a rather clever troll or one nasty, bigoted guy.

The poll isn't meant to be "scientific" just some fun. Do they still have entertainment in the secular socialist world?

Abortion reform is a step in the right direction. The moral and ethical direction. The direction that stands up against killing babies. The side of our Mothers and daughters.

The left never ceases to amaze me. Yet more name calling. Yes I must be a troll and a bigot because I don't share your world view. Everyone must agree with the socialist agenda else they be labeled.

[madmax]

The poll isn't terribly scientific,

20 of the 21 posters believe in abortion and a womens right to choose. Only one person is 100% against all forms of abortion.

That is the thing about a womens right to choose, they each make their own decision on when, and if they should ever have one. All the factors above are considered in a womens decision, but at the end of the Day, it belongs to a women and not to "Mr. Canada".

[ToadBrother]

The poll isn't meant to be "scientific" just some fun. Do they still have entertainment in the secular socialist world?

Abortion reform is a step in the right direction. The moral and ethical direction. The direction that stands up against killing babies. The side of our Mothers and daughters.

The left never ceases to amaze me. Yet more name calling. Yes I must be a troll and a bigot because I don't share your world view. Everyone must agree with the socialist agenda else they be labeled.

I'm no socialist, but you are a bigot. You seem to actually believe that God is on your side, and worse, that the majority of Canadians are.

But you're wasting your breath. The Tories will not reopen the abortion debate, because it would be political suicide. They have already effectively marginalized the pro-abortion members of the party much as the Liberals have done.

[Mr.Canada]

I'm no socialist, but you are a bigot. You seem to actually believe that God is on your side, and worse, that the majority of Canadians are.

But you're wasting your breath. The Tories will not reopen the abortion debate, because it would be political suicide. They have already effectively marginalized the pro-abortion members of the party much as the Liberals have done.

How many times do I need to explain this?

"The Tories" don't need to open anything. Any member can propose any bill. It's called a private members Bill. It doesn't need to be part of the Party platform either since it had been asked for by a MP's constituents. Sheesh.

Furthermore there are Pro Life advocates in all 3 major parties. Just like there are Pro Choice advocates in all 3. Wake up please.

I don't see how a ninth month abortion is a good thing. Apparently you do think it's good Toad. We need to set limits is all I'm proposing atm.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[ToadBrother]

How many times do I need to explain this?

"The Tories" don't need to open anything. Any member can propose any bill. It's called a private members Bill. It doesn't need to be part of the Party platform either since it had been asked for by a MP's constituents. Sheesh.

You don't quite understand how it works. It's up to the Government to decide which bills get put on the order paper. Harper will not permit any anti-abortion bill, regardless of who submits, on the order paper. The Government House Leader is likely under express orders to pass over any such bill coming from a private member.

You need to brush up on how private member bills get selected.

Furthermore there are Pro Life advocates in all 3 major parties. Just like there are Pro Choice advocates in all 3. Wake up please.

I don't see how a ninth month abortion is a good thing. Apparently you do think it's good Toad. We need to set limits is all I'm proposing atm.

You'd better wake up and figure out that no anti-abortion laws, and even bills restricting certain kinds of abortions, will be voted on by the House any time in the foreseeable future. The Tories are not going to sacrifice themselves over abortion.

[gordiecanuk]

The poll isn't meant to be "scientific" just some fun. Do they still have entertainment in the secular socialist world?

Abortion reform is a step in the right direction. The moral and ethical direction. The direction that stands up against killing babies. The side of our Mothers and daughters.

The left never ceases to amaze me. Yet more name calling. Yes I must be a troll and a bigot because I don't share your world view. Everyone must agree with the socialist agenda else they be labeled.

Mr Canada, given your lack of tolerance for those who don't ascribe to your brand of Christianity....labels like bigot and troll are part of the territory.

[madmax]

The left never ceases to amaze me.

This isn't a left or right issue. It goes across all party lines and all voters who vote for different parties have a position on this issue. The Conservative Candidate in my region played possum on the abortion issue, until the Christian Heritage candidate flushed him out into the open and then you couldn't tell the difference between the NDP, LPC and CPC.

The Christian Heritage Party has a mix of socialism, fiscal responsibility and well thought out family support visions, that are lightyears beyond the CPC and further then the NDP. The CHP is considered right wing only in its social conservative values, and is like a socialist conservative with regards to fiscal responsibility.

The position of the CPC has not changed since 2004, and isn't going to change, anymore then when an LPC MP brings forth the same type of private members bill.

OTTAWA - In the face of dissension within the party, Stephen Harper's Conservative government is reiterating its commitment to not reopen the debate on abortion.

"Throughout his political career, the prime minister has been clear on this issue," said Dimitri Soudas, a spokesman for the prime minister. "We will not introduce or support legislation on abortion."

So, whoever you are trying to kid or fool regarding the Conservatives, it just isn't working.

From the CHP website......

Prime Minister Harper said in December, 2005, "I will use whatever influence I have to ensure that no legislation on abortion comes into Parliament. In a news conference at Montreal Sept. 29, 2008 he reiterated his firm opposition to allowing Parliament to even discuss abortion. The Conservative Party thus defends the abortion industry from Parliament. Justice Minister Nicholson will replace Unborn Victims of Crime Bill with a Bill that "will not open the question of fetal rights"; he stated, "Our government will not re-open the abortion debate."

So stop Bull SH17ing people about the Conservatives.....

here is a party that means what they say about abortion.

The CHP will....

Ammend the criminal code of Canada to protect all innocent human life from conception to natural death.

Which is more inline with the amount of popular support this issue receives with the Canadian Public.

[gordiecanuk]

You don't quite understand how it works. It's up to the Government to decide which bills get put on the order paper. Harper will not permit any anti-abortion bill, regardless of who submits, on the order paper. The Government House Leader is likely under express orders to pass over any such bill coming from a private member.

You need to brush up on how private member bills get selected.

You'd better wake up and figure out that no anti-abortion laws, and even bills restricting certain kinds of abortions, will be voted on by the House any time in the foreseeable future. The Tories are not going to sacrifice themselves over abortion.

The only way Harper touches this issue is with a majority mandate, he's on record as saying "this" government will not be doing anything on abortion...any private members bills will be shuffled off to committee never again to see the light of day. I could see them allowing one to get past first reading, but nothing beyond that.

When we elect our "next" government, if its a Tory majority...then I think Harper would tackle it early in a mandate.

[Mr.Canada]

You'd better wake up and figure out that no anti-abortion laws, and even bills restricting certain kinds of abortions, will be voted on by the House any time in the foreseeable future. The Tories are not going to sacrifice themselves over abortion.

So you agree that ninth month abortions are a great thing and a valuable part of Canadian fabric. Wow.

Ok, thanks for coming out Toad. Yes there will be abortion restrictions voted into place and passed by the Senate within 3 years. Not an outright ban of coarse but limits on the number of weeks of pregnancy that an abortion can be performed.

The only way Harper touches this issue is with a majority mandate, he's on record as saying "this" government will not be doing anything on abortion...any private members bills will be shuffled off to committee never again to see the light of day. I could see them allowing one to get past first reading, but nothing beyond that.

When we elect our "next" government, if its a Tory majority...then I think Harper would tackle it early in a mandate.

Such a scenario is possible but not without a Tory controlled Senate as it'll get stalled so that's why I say 3 years or so.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[madmax]

Yes there will be abortion restrictions voted into place and passed by the Senate within 3 years.

Just what are you smoking??? Passed by the Senate? There won't be a bill passed by parliment, let alone the Senate.

[Mr.Canada]

Just what are you smoking??? Passed by the Senate? There won't be a bill passed by parliment, let alone the Senate.

Keep telling yourself that max. It doesn't make it true. Have you been to a Tory Convention? If you have then you'd know what we're talking about there.

[Melanie_]

I don't see how a ninth month abortion is a good thing. Apparently you do think it's good Toad. We need to set limits is all I'm proposing atm.

I believe in a woman's right to choose, without interference from government. But I'm curious, Mr. Canada, about why you feel it is OK to have an abortion early in the pregnancy, but not later in the term. My understanding of your position is that life starts at conception, and that any abortion is murder. Where is the line drawn, and why?

[ToadBrother]

Keep telling yourself that max. It doesn't make it true. Have you been to a Tory Convention? If you have then you'd know what we're talking about there.

Harper already basically told the attendees that their policies weren't going to get into play. It isn't going to happen. The Conservative Party is first and foremost interested in gaining and keeping power, and lighting the abortion match would see them, already showing some weakness in the polls, turfed from power. Many Canadians didn't vote for Reform/Alliance precisely because they thought it was populated by social regressives like you, and Harper's victory has basically been to demonstrate "Whatever I or the social conservatives in my party believe, we will govern from the center".

You're anti-abortion stance died the minute that Stockwell Day was turfed. Harper will not permit any abortion bills to even show up on the Order Paper, let alone actually get voted on or go to committee, no matter what a pack of idiotic religious nuts at a policy convention may think. Harper will happily watch thousands of fetuses flushed down the toilet if it means he keeps his job.

[ToadBrother]

So you agree that ninth month abortions are a great thing and a valuable part of Canadian fabric. Wow.

It amazes me just how fundamentally immoral religious bigots are. I never said "it's okay". I think abortions are sad things, but since I don't think I'm God's personal spokesman, and I don't think I or anyone else has the right to tell a woman what to do with her body, I reject attempts to limit abortions, if for no other reason than the argument is fundamentally dishonest. Those who seek to limit abortions are in reality simply trying to find the thin wedge that they can ultimately use to ban abortions entirely.

Ok, thanks for coming out Toad. Yes there will be abortion restrictions voted into place and passed by the Senate within 3 years. Not an outright ban of coarse but limits on the number of weeks of pregnancy that an abortion can be performed.

Such a scenario is possible but not without a Tory controlled Senate as it'll get stalled so that's why I say 3 years or so.

No there won't, because any government that did it would lose the next election. The abortion war is over. Get used to it. Harper or any Conservative successor is not a frickin' moron. They want power more than they want to please a small number of religious nuts.

[Mr.Canada]

Keep telling yourself that as well Toad. You've already downed the KoolAid anyhow.

[gordiecanuk]

I don't see the Senate blocking it, the only time I can recall the Senate blocking legislation was when Mulroney signed the FTA without putting it to the electorate first...after he got re-elected the Lib dominated Senate passed it. I could see them kicking it back and making reccomendations...but eventually it would pass. Of course its all contingent on Harper getting a majority, so we'll probably know in less than a year whether or not this discussion is moot.

[madmax]

Keep telling yourself that max. It doesn't make it true. Have you been to a Tory Convention? If you have then you'd know what we're talking about there.

All conventions are designed to preach to choir, and certainly CPC conventioners are not going to rock the boat and lose their Social Conservatives lapdogs anymore then they are going to advance Social Conservative ideas.

You show me the results of that Convention in a CPC policy platform that supports your naive assumption. The idea is to keep people like you onboard and believing.

Or are you suggesting that Prime Minister Harper is LYING or has a Hidden Agenda, opposite to his clearly stated position and the position of the Conservative Party as of December 29th?

You can yak all you want, but you aren't even fooling anyone on MLW.

Look, people here like to have fun. You have started 4 topics when one already existed on social conservative issues, and you are having the fun. But the silence from most of the Conservatives on this forum is more telling.

Its fun to comment on your posts, but make no mistake.

You pretend and continue to pretend that you have the support of the Conservative Party.

At least with the CHP you could tell the truth and back it up.

[ToadBrother]

Keep telling yourself that as well Toad. You've already downed the KoolAid anyhow.

This is your defense of your stupidity, that I'm delusional? HArper made it clear when your fellow religious nuts started making noises at the policy convention. There will never be another abortion bill to get on the Order Paper, because to allow it would mean political suicide. The majority of CAnadians support a woman's right to chose, and no one, particularly with real problems ahead, wants to fight this idiotic fight. You lost, and that is final.

[Mr.Canada]

This is your defense of your stupidity, that I'm delusional? HArper made it clear when your fellow religious nuts started making noises at the policy convention. There will never be another abortion bill to get on the Order Paper, because to allow it would mean political suicide. The majority of CAnadians support a woman's right to chose, and no one, particularly with real problems ahead, wants to fight this idiotic fight. You lost, and that is final.

Wanting abortion reform is akin to being a religious nut? Is that all the left can do is call names to those who don'r fall into line with their ideals? Everyone must agree with socialist ideals or be name called and labeled. And you call the right fascist, lol.

Drea wants abortion reform and she's an Atheist. Many others here want abortion restricted to 20weeks and before. Are they all religious nuts as well?

Edited January 4, 2009 by Mr.Canada