Progressive Tory Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 There has been a bit of discussion about the future of the coalition and since I belong to a pro-coalition group I was asked to report on a townhall meeting held in Kingston, Ontario. This is that report. Others shared their experiences from other forums and rallys held across the country, and most were much the same. We like the idea of the Coalition remaining strong if no other reason than to prevent Stephen Harper from trying to turn his Minority gov't into a dictatorship. Bear in mind, this was held before Dion stepped down. For what it's worth: Town Hall Meeting Kingston City Hall Re: Coalition December 7, 2008 I went to the town hall meeting held last Sunday afternoon in the historic Memorial Hall, in Kingston City Hall. The panel included local candidates Eric Walton (Green) and Rick Downes (NDP). Peter Milliken could not attend since he is Speaker of the House and therefore must be impartial. In his place was Ron Hartley, a Canadian Diplomat, and member of Mr. Milliken's team. To round out the group, Professor Hugh Thorburn, former head of the Political Science Department at Queen's University, gave his insight into the legalities of the Coalition. Before the commentaries, the standing room only crowd was able to "meet and greet" and discuss the political drama of the past few weeks. Opinions were varied, but the common theme was the necessity of removing Stephen Harper as Prime minister, before he does anymore damage. I sat in the front row and the setting for this discussion was almost surreal, with the large portrait of Sir John A. reminding us just how different today's Tories are to the Party created by our first Prime Minister. As most of you know, he was born in Kingston, and his name still invokes civic pride. Professor Thorburn, not only validated the legitimacy of the Coalition, but cited it as a safeguard in our Constitution, from the partisan and ideological style of government being practiced by our current PM. He went on to say that Harper will likely bring down a "sweetheart budget", filled with funding for a variety of programs and the necessary economic stimulus that the opposition parties have demanded. For them to simply reject it could then be seen as hypocritical. This would mean at least the temporary survival of the Conservatives, though any sway from a new spirit of co-operation, would probably cause the government to fall, and the Coalition to possibly take over. Answering concerns about the "Dion factor", Professor Thorburn said that if he steps down "... and if the caucus and party executives elect a new leader from the three candidates vying for the job...Although it would violate normal procedure when electing a leader, the party leadership could argue these are extenuating circumstances." He went on to say: "This is an emergency and that would be justification for doing that. That would be my expectation and a course of action that is very likely." Touche. Ned Franks, a retired Queen's University Political Science professor, agreed. He told our local paper that "A new leader in the Liberal Party could keep the coalition together. If the coalition holds, the government will fall." Mr. Downes, the local NDP candidate gave a fiery speech that included a bit of comic relief. Pulling three different ties, in assorted colours, from his pockets he asked the crowd which one he should wear. Most knew this was in reference to the media's fascination with what colour Jack Layton was donning. He cited his reasons for supporting the Coalition; setting aside his Party's platform for the good of the country. He also reminded the crowd, that Mr. Flaherty's financial statement was a direct attack on unions, women and the Civil Service. Mr. Walton from the Green Party also gave his Party's reasons for aligning with the Opposition. His speech focused on the environment and concerns that the Harper government has not taken it seriously. He also touched on other important issues like funding for the Arts, return of the Court Challenges Program, daycare, Nafta and Aboriginal concerns. Canadian Diplomat Ron Hartley discussed Canada's International reputation and how much it has suffered since Harper aligned himself with the Bush Administration. People were then allowed to go to the mike and question the panel. One woman, formerly from Quebec, spoke of the insulting 'separatist' campaign run by the Conservatives, and the fact that Quebec bashing has now become commonplace across the country, empowered by a Prime Minister who not only allowed it, but instigated it; to save his job. Others, simply reiterated the goals of the Coalition, but I did find one question rather interesting. One gentleman asked what happens to the Coalition if an election is called. Eric Walton stated that his Green party would support joining the Liberals in the next election so long as proportional representation was part of the election platform. NDP Rick Downes agreed, and said that his focus would be on a National minimum wage. Does this mean that 'uniting the left' is within our grasp? Time will tell. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Argus Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 It HAS no future. Ignatieff isn't as dumb or desperate as Dion. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
BornAlbertan Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) I sat in the front row and the setting for this discussion was almost surreal, with the large portrait of Sir John A. reminding us just how different today's Tories are to the Party created by our first Prime Minister. As most of you know, he was born in Kingston, and his name still invokes civic pride. Hmmm....i didn't know that. I guess that is because the truth is John A. Macdonald was born in Glasgow, Scotland. He died in Kingston however. Edited December 31, 2008 by BornAlbertan Quote
Progressive Tory Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Posted December 31, 2008 Hmmm....i didn't know that. I guess that is because the truth is John A. Macdonald was born in Glasgow, Scotland. He died in Kingston however. You're right. I goofed. He came here as a boy. He still shares a lot of local history, though. Thousands of times I've walked by the site of his old law office and of course walked the path to the local pub he frequented (only I didn't go in). He could certainly drink with the best of them. Thanks for the correction. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Mr.Canada Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 IF the Bloc propped Coalition ever takes power we'll be reading about the Liberal Party in the Obituaries. Get a grip. For what it's worth I hope they do take power so we can be rid of the LPC once and for all. Never mind Harper destroying it, they'll kill themselves. Hilarious. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
punked Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 IF the Bloc propped Coalition ever takes power we'll be reading about the Liberal Party in the Obituaries. Get a grip. For what it's worth I hope they do take power so we can be rid of the LPC once and for all. Never mind Harper destroying it, they'll kill themselves. Hilarious. Considering new polls show the majority of Canadians support the Coalition Harper is in trouble. He has killed himself. Quote
Progressive Tory Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Posted December 31, 2008 It HAS no future. Ignatieff isn't as dumb or desperate as Dion. Doesn't matter. Personally I would prefer the Coalition remains in the wings, as a constant reminder to Stephen Harper that he must act as Prime Minister of Canada and not the leader of the Conservative Party. We are ready and we are prepared. Step up or step aside. There's a new kid in town. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
ToadBrother Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 IF the Bloc propped Coalition ever takes power we'll be reading about the Liberal Party in the Obituaries. Get a grip. For what it's worth I hope they do take power so we can be rid of the LPC once and for all. Never mind Harper destroying it, they'll kill themselves. Hilarious. Yes, because we all know that secretly most Conservative supporters want to turn Canada into a single party banana republic. Quote
Mr.Canada Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 Yes, because we all know that secretly most Conservative supporters want to turn Canada into a single party banana republic. Yet it's the Coalition who are combining three parties into one...better check the logic used. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
punked Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 Yet it's the Coalition who are combining three parties into one...better check the logic used. Didn't the Cons first combine three parties into one though? Quote
Progressive Tory Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Posted December 31, 2008 IF the Bloc propped Coalition ever takes power we'll be reading about the Liberal Party in the Obituaries. Get a grip. For what it's worth I hope they do take power so we can be rid of the LPC once and for all. Never mind Harper destroying it, they'll kill themselves. Hilarious. You did know that Stephen Harper himself tried to form a Coalition with what he now calls 'Separatists' and 'Socialists', right? "On his way up, Stephen Harper was happy to meet with, and compose letters to the Governor General, with Gilles Duceppe, as well as with Jack Layton. On September 9, 2004, with the leaders of the Bloc and the NDP he co-signed a letter to Her Excellency, the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson that said: 'We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority.'” http://www.jameslaxer.com/2008/12/quebec-b...rts-to-his.html So, in response to your comments Mr. Canada; I do have a grip, firmly on the Coalition, while they maintain their grip on Stephen Harper. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Mr.Canada Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 Didn't the Cons first combine three parties into one though? No, they did not. They officially joined ranks with the PC's. Canadian Alliance + PC's. Two right wing parties with none of them hell bent on separating from Canada. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Mr.Canada Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 You did know that Stephen Harper himself tried to form a Coalition with what he now calls 'Separatists' and 'Socialists', right? The landscape was a little different. The Liberals had just been getting caught stealing hundreds of millions of dollars through ADScam. Why do you think that the Liberals aren't bringing this up? Because it would remind the public about ADScam. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
punked Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 No, they did not. They officially joined ranks with the PC's. Canadian Alliance + PC's. Two right wing parties with none of them hell bent on separating from Canada. The Alliance was and still is ripe with Albertan separatists you know it. Quote
Smallc Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 Why do you think that the Liberals aren't bringing this up? Because it would remind the public about ADScam. Alright. So you're saying that any time the Liberals bring up any time in the past, it will remind people of the Sponsorship Scandal? Quote
Progressive Tory Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Posted December 31, 2008 No, they did not. They officially joined ranks with the PC's. Canadian Alliance + PC's. Two right wing parties with none of them hell bent on separating from Canada. I'm not referring to combining the parties, I'm talking about his attempt to form a coalition with the Bloc and NDP to overthrow Paul Martin. You can find copies of Stephen Harper's letter to the Governor General Adrienne Clarkson everywhere: September 9, 2004 co-signed by Gilles Duceppe and Jack Layton. How could you not know that? It was the recent headline in newspapers everywhere. Why do you think so many people are now supporting the coalition? I can send you a dozen links but google it. If you can't find it, I promise at least a dozen links. Right there in black and white. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
punked Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 I'm not referring to combining the parties, I'm talking about his attempt to form a coalition with the Bloc and NDP to overthrow Paul Martin. You can find copies of Stephen Harper's letter to the Governor General Adrienne Clarkson everywhere: September 9, 2004 co-signed by Gilles Duceppe and Jack Layton. How could you not know that? It was the recent headline in newspapers everywhere. Why do you think so many people are now supporting the coalition?I can send you a dozen links but google it. If you can't find it, I promise at least a dozen links. Right there in black and white. He was responding to me he responded to you underneath that post. Quote
Progressive Tory Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Posted December 31, 2008 The landscape was a little different. The Liberals had just been getting caught stealing hundreds of millions of dollars through ADScam. Why do you think that the Liberals aren't bringing this up? Because it would remind the public about ADScam. AdScam involved bureaucrats and not one elected official was charged. In fact the investigation was ordered by the Liberals themselves. However, the "In and Out" scam involved 65 elected Conservative MPs and is being railroaded by the Conservatives. Big difference. Besides, that's old news and tired logic. If you want to talk history, can you say 'Airbus'? Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Progressive Tory Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Posted December 31, 2008 The landscape was a little different. The Liberals had just been getting caught stealing hundreds of millions of dollars through ADScam. Why do you think that the Liberals aren't bringing this up? Because it would remind the public about ADScam. This is not about his reasons, though we know it was a power grab; just the hypocrisy of saying that it was undemocratic and un-Canadian to sign a deal with 'Separatists' and 'Socialists'. Why were they legitimate in 2004 but not legitimate now? Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
Jack Weber Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) They were'nt in 2004 and they are'nt now... Harper's howls of derision,notwithstanding. Edited December 31, 2008 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
madmax Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 Yet it's the Coalition who are combining three parties into one...better check the logic used. The Logic is sound. Quote
madmax Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 No, they did not. They officially joined ranks with the PC's. Canadian Alliance + PC's. Two right wing parties with none of them hell bent on separating from Canada. Harper tried to cut a deal with the BQ and the NDP to govern in replace of Paul Martin, shortly before the Martin Governments first throne speech. The BQ were on board, and the NDP backed out at the last minute. Quote
madmax Posted December 31, 2008 Report Posted December 31, 2008 Alright. So you're saying that any time the Liberals bring up any time in the past, it will remind people of the Sponsorship Scandal? When tired and out of ideas, the Sponsorship Scandal is tossed out there to detract. It actually undermines the activities of the scandal, and is best served when needed. Not used on fruitless replies. Quote
Progressive Tory Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Posted December 31, 2008 Harper tried to cut a deal with the BQ and the NDP to govern in replace of Paul Martin, shortly before the Martin Governments first throne speech. The BQ were on board, and the NDP backed out at the last minute. Doesn't matter when or where it was done. It was done. Why are they 'Separatists' and 'Socialists' now but comrades then? Hypocrisy. This is by far the most un-Canadian act by any Prime Minister in the history of this country, and just to save his job. Stephen Harper is NOT a leader. However, the Coalition will turn him into one or send him packing. It's his choice from here on in. Quote "For all our modesty and self-deprecation, we’re a people who dream great dreams. And then roll up our sleeves and turn them into realities." - Michael Ignatieff "I would not want the Prime Minister to think that he could simply fail in the House of Commons as a route to another General Election. That's not the way our system works." Stephen Harper.
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