Location of Wealth

[marcinmoka]

With the exception of either a geographic advantage (i.e. access to ports, proximity to other trading partners, industrial clustering - Hollywood,Silicon Valley, etc) or political creations (Singapore, Israel, etc), why does economic wealth tend to cluster in less pleasant climates? In general, it seems the closer you get to the equator, the lower the economic prospects.

Northern Europe vs. Southern Europe? Even more visibly, northern Italy or Spain compared to their southern counterparts?

Why have cities such as Chicago, New York, Boston managed to create a more diverse economies than that of Oklahoma City or Mobile, Alabama?

Do milder climates somehow promote productivity, ingenuity and creativity? Clearly, year-round agricultural activity was never an option, thus leaving people to devise alternate means of economic subsistence.

Edited December 23, 2008 by marcinmoka

[M.Dancer]

With the exception of either a geographic advantage (i.e. access to ports, proximity to other trading partners, industrial clustering - Hollywood,Silicon Valley, etc) or political creations (Singapore, Israel, etc), why does economic wealth tend to cluster in less pleasant climates? In general, it seems the closer you get to the equator, the lower the economic prospects.

Northern Europe vs. Southern Europe? Even more visibly, northern Italy or Spain compared to their southern counterparts?

Why have cities such as Chicago, New York, Boston managed to create a more diverse economies than that of Oklahoma City or Birmingham, Alabama?

Do milder climates somehow promote productivity, ingenuity and creativity? Clearly, year-round agricultural activity was never an option, thus leaving people to devise alternate means of economic subsistence.

As opposed to Silicone Valley which is only a few hundred miles north of Alabama

Or San Paulo Brazil?

[marcinmoka]

As opposed to Silicone Valley which is only a few hundred miles north of Alabama

Never heard of it. Though you do get some interesting Image results when you google it. I'm guessing that's in the environs of L.A?

Or San Paulo Brazil?

Clearly there are exceptions due to other factors, equally in the case of Guangzhou, Mumbai, etc. And granted, Torino, Milano, Bilbao, Barcelona are better situated for trade, but why are northern Europeans usually better off than those in the south? Slovenia exempted, why where nations such as Poland or the Czech Republic better suited for entry into the E.U than Bulgaria or Romania?

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

[M.Dancer]

Never heard of it. Though you do get some interesting Image results when you google it. I'm guessing that's in the environs of L.A?

Arr Arr Arr

Slovenia exempted, why where nations such as Poland or the Czech Republic better suited for entry into the E.U than Bulgaria or Romania?

Zenophobia and Stalinism that lasted well into the late 80s early 90s and a history of Turkish oppression. Romania we should note, is further north than most of Italy

[jbg]

....but why are northern Europeans usually better off than those in the south? Slovenia exempted, why where nations such as Poland or the Czech Republic better suited for entry into the E.U than Bulgaria or Romania?

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

My view is that northern climates force the exchange of goods whereas denizens of milder climates can more easily supply their needs locally. The need to trade, and the need to cooperate and innovate to defeat a harsher climate, provides more fertile ground for commercial activity.

Also, the more bracing weather that starts in late August and continues to early June is more conducive to work than temperatures in the 30's and above.

[Vancouverite]

My view is that northern climates force the exchange of goods whereas denizens of milder climates can more easily supply their needs locally. The need to trade, and the need to cooperate and innovate to defeat a harsher climate, provides more fertile ground for commercial activity.

Also, the more bracing weather that starts in late August and continues to early June is more conducive to work than temperatures in the 30's and above.

Australia is very pleasant, and it's way better off than Mongolia or Russia. Abu Dhabi is also quite nice, I hear.

[jbg]

Australia is very pleasant, and it's way better off than Mongolia or Russia. Abu Dhabi is also quite nice, I hear.

Australia was populated by people from the Northern climes and the people came with their habits. Also, note that Sydney, not Cairns, Darwin or Alice Springs is the center of gravity in Australia. Sydney's climate is not unlike Charleston, South Carolina, sans the periodic snow. That lack of snow is because of the fact that oceans separate the Antarctic from Australia, and all of the U.S. is on the same land mass as the Canadian and Alaskan Arctic.

[jbg]

Abu Dhabi is also quite nice, I hear.

Almost everything except the oil they sell is imported and purchased.

[Michael Hardner]

Your supposition only makes sense at certain points in history. There are many examples of southern points dominating northern points. Rome conquered England, for example.

And, in any case, the 'economy' as we now know it was probably born in Sumeria, which is present day Iraq.

I recommend a book by Jared Diamond, a biologist, who explored the question of why various peoples came to dominate the world. It's called GUNS GERMS AND STEEL. One of the key events in that domination, was the establishment of the banking system in Europe, which first required the church to turn against the Bible and allow loaning/investment for interest. The complicated relationship between Rome and the aristocracy at that time created the conditions necessary for the Europeans to pool together resources and invest in technology that later led to superiority in military technology.

Read the book.

[jbg]

I recommend a book by Jared Diamond, a biologist, who explored the question of why various peoples came to dominate the world. It's called GUNS GERMS AND STEEL. One of the key events in that domination, was the establishment of the banking system in Europe, which first required the church to turn against the Bible and allow loaning/investment for interest. The complicated relationship between Rome and the aristocracy at that time created the conditions necessary for the Europeans to pool together resources and invest in technology that later led to superiority in military technology.

Read the book.

Sounds interesting.

Wasn't the need for banking and organization of capital the reason the Jews were imported?

[Michael Hardner]

Jews were already in Europe during this period.

[jbg]

Jews were already in Europe during this period.

Not very many, and at that point mostly in Muslim Europe.

[Michael Hardner]

The reasons for Jewish success in the business world, from what I've read seem to be rooted in restrictions on Jewish freedom of travel, and of association with others. Read the book, though, as it provides a few ideas on these questions.

[marcinmoka]

The reasons for Jewish success in the business world, from what I've read seem to be rooted in restrictions on Jewish freedom of travel, and of association with others.

And not the nagging Jewish mother?

[M.Dancer]

Sounds interesting.

Wasn't the need for banking and organization of capital the reason the Jews were imported?

I believe modern banking has its roots in rennaissence italy...the Medicis etc

[White Doors]

Your supposition only makes sense at certain points in history. There are many examples of southern points dominating northern points. Rome conquered England, for example.

And, in any case, the 'economy' as we now know it was probably born in Sumeria, which is present day Iraq.

I recommend a book by Jared Diamond, a biologist, who explored the question of why various peoples came to dominate the world. It's called GUNS GERMS AND STEEL. One of the key events in that domination, was the establishment of the banking system in Europe, which first required the church to turn against the Bible and allow loaning/investment for interest. The complicated relationship between Rome and the aristocracy at that time created the conditions necessary for the Europeans to pool together resources and invest in technology that later led to superiority in military technology.

Read the book.

You missed the point of the book if you think that Jared Diamond thinks that the banking system was the reason that Europe discovered North America and not the other way around. And you are also ignoring the dark ages in your supposition. Not a good time to be a white bread Anglo to be fair.

Edited January 5, 2009 by White Doors

[Michael Hardner]

You missed the point of the book if you think that Jared Diamond thinks that the banking system was the reason that Europe discovered North America and not the other way around.

No, it's not the only reason. There are many events that led to the discovery of North America by the Europeans. Christianity did play a role, though.

Edited January 6, 2009 by Michael Hardner

[Toro]

Because it is too bloody hot to work hard. I realized why there are so many basket cases on the equator after I moved to Florida and spent a few summers here. You have no energy to work when its 100F.

That's why air conditioning is one of the most important inventions of all time.

[White Doors]

No, it's not the only reason. There are many events that led to the discovery of North America by the Europeans. Christianity did play a role, though.

The question that Jared Diamond asks is why did Europeans have a banking system and the tribes of North America not have one. That is what he is asking. He makes no attempt to say that because of the banking system or Christianity they disconvered North America. Did you just skim through the book?

[penorsword]

there's a video series on the book. It's available on google's video. It's really good. Nice description of the migration of man.

Here's a thought, maybe the distinct season change gives people more impact of the necessity of getting things done. If crops arn't harvested by fall, they'll be useless and people would starve. Like the premise of some people buying that reverse clock that determines how much time you have to live, motivating that person to accomplish more.

However; Toro's right, I hate working outside in 30+ weather, and i'd never be able to work on the Equator.

[Michael Hardner]

The question that Jared Diamond asks is why did Europeans have a banking system and the tribes of North America not have one. That is what he is asking. He makes no attempt to say that because of the banking system or Christianity they disconvered North America. Did you just skim through the book?

Well, WD, it's been at least 5 years since I read it but I remember him examining many events, and the reasons behind them.

I explicitly remember the discussion of the financing of ships, and the reason that China didn't explore Europe.

Was that in there, or am I confusing with a different book ?