Religious Right in Canada

punked · December 24, 2008

Canada does not have an established Church, and even in England, it's largely a nominal notion. The Queen is Head of the Church in much the same way she is the head of state.
At any rate, our laws are certainly based on Biblical law. In fact, other than perhaps Iran and Saudi Arabia, I don't think there are any countries that can meaningfully claim to have legal codes based on Mosaic Law.

Our laws are not Mosaic law though they quite different infact Saudi Arabians laws are much closer to Mosaic laws then our own.

Mr.Canada · December 28, 2008

Our laws are not Mosaic law though they quite different infact Saudi Arabians laws are much closer to Mosaic laws then our own.

This opinion is based on what? You're an atheist you've said and I doubt you've seriously studied anything theological apart from some blurbs here and there.

So tell us where you regurgitated this statement from please.

ToadBrother · December 28, 2008

This opinion is based on what? You're an atheist you've said and I doubt you've seriously studied anything theological apart from some blurbs here and there.
So tell us where you regurgitated this statement from please.

Go look up Leviticus, where the bulk of the Mosaic Laws are situated, and then you tell me how many of those laws have ever applied in Europe. Were Europeans ever banned from having sexual intercourse with their menstruating wife? Was it ever against the law to covet your neighbors belongings? Were Europeans ever bound by the Hebrew food laws? Were any of the Holiness Codes of Leviticus ever in legal force in Christian Europe?

The Mosaic Law is not a source of our legal systems. By and large, in English speaking countries, the legal system evolved out of the Anglo-Saxon legal traditions, most of which were derived from the Germanic. There was some admixture of Continental law when the Normans conquered England, and much of that law was inherited from the Justinian Code, which while codified by a Christian Roman Emperor, is a fair chunk simply a recodification of Roman Law, which predates Christianity.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm afraid you can't take adulterers outside the city walls and stone them.

ironstone · December 28, 2008

SOURCE/FULL STORY
Well as we can Christians are waking up to the secularism that is destroying Canada. Not only that but Christians are starting to vote as the Bible says. For a party that best identifies with Christians, has the best party policies that are in line with Church teachings. That party is the Conservative party or Tories and they are led by Stephan Harper, an evangelical Christian, a family man, a Joe everyman, just like you and me friends.

Read the article in its entirety it explains things far better than I could.

Typically,don't newcomers to Canada overwhelmingly vote Liberal?How about Canadian-born "visible minorities"?The numbers also seem to show that they strongly support the Liberals.Presumably,this group includes deeply religious people.Hindus,Muslims,Jews ,to name just a few,that are strongly devoted to their faith tend to usually vote for the Liberals.

You clearly have a problem for the so-called "religious right" supporting the Conservatives,fair enough.Why no criticism of the identifiable religious groups that support the Liberals?By the way,it doesn't necessarily mean the above mentioned parties are evil because of where their support comes from.

DrGreenthumb · December 28, 2008

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm afraid you can't take adulterers outside the city walls and stone them.

Yes ToadBrother but the conservatives will try their best to make sure that the adulterers,or anyone else for that matter, can't go outside the city walls and "get stoned" Hell they want to make sure we can't even get stoned in our own basements and play xbox360.

Mr.Canada · December 28, 2008

Go look up Leviticus, where the bulk of the Mosaic Laws are situated, and then you tell me how many of those laws have ever applied in Europe. Were Europeans ever banned from having sexual intercourse with their menstruating wife? Was it ever against the law to covet your neighbors belongings? Were Europeans ever bound by the Hebrew food laws? Were any of the Holiness Codes of Leviticus ever in legal force in Christian Europe?
The Mosaic Law is not a source of our legal systems. By and large, in English speaking countries, the legal system evolved out of the Anglo-Saxon legal traditions, most of which were derived from the Germanic. There was some admixture of Continental law when the Normans conquered England, and much of that law was inherited from the Justinian Code, which while codified by a Christian Roman Emperor, is a fair chunk simply a recodification of Roman Law, which predates Christianity.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm afraid you can't take adulterers outside the city walls and stone them.

I didn't realize punked and Toadbrother were the same person. I quoted punked not Toadbrother, perhaps you're having trouble deciphering the two. In future I'll be more clear as to whom I'm speaking. I wanted to know how he came this conclusion I offered nothing of my own opinion on the matter. It's a sound bite of the left, nothing more. I'm out to discredit him as someone who cuts and pastes what he read once or twice in some other obscure place. He made a staement now I want punked to qualify it. This is how an argument works.

madmax · December 28, 2008

I He made a staement now I want ......... This is how an argument works

And how does the Religious right feel about Conservatives supporting Gays, gay Rights, Gay Marriage, and Gay MPs?

Mr.Canada · December 28, 2008

And how does the Religious right feel about Conservatives supporting Gays, gay Rights, Gay Marriage, and Gay MPs?

I can only speak for myself but for me Harper is too left wing for me. I want to see more policy like the Reform Party outlined That's my opinion.

madmax · December 28, 2008

I can only speak for myself but for me Harper is too left wing for me. I want to see more policy like the Reform Party outlined That's my opinion.

The Conservative policies haven't changed, and aren't going to. WHo are you trying to kid?

OR more importantly, why do the Conservatives continue to mislead the religious right into thinking they will do anything other then use them for votes?

Edited December 28, 2008 by madmax

Mr.Canada · December 28, 2008

The Conservative policies haven't changed, and aren't going to. WHo are you trying to kid?
OR more importantly, why do the Conservatives continue to mislead the religious right into thinking they will do anything other then use them for votes?

Still the closest option out of the that have a chance at winning seats. The Liberals and NDP are too far away from the Bible to be taken seriously by the religious right.

ToadBrother · December 28, 2008

The Conservative policies haven't changed, and aren't going to. WHo are you trying to kid?
OR more importantly, why do the Conservatives continue to mislead the religious right into thinking they will do anything other then use them for votes?

There are two explanations, and I suspect either can be applicable depending on the individual:

1. The Religious Right truly hopes that the Conservatives have a secret agenda and are only waiting for gaining a majority before they begin implementing a more religious state.

2. The Religious Right really has nowhere else to turn. Racist nuts like the Heritage lunatics are about as likely to even gain a seat as the Marxist-Leninists. They managed to heavily sway Reform and the Alliance, which had a decidedly socially conservative bent, but one got the feeling that even Preston Manning was pretty uncomfortable with the influence these guys wielded.

ToadBrother · December 28, 2008

Still the closest option out of the that have a chance at winning seats. The Liberals and NDP are too far away from the Bible to be taken seriously by the religious right.

Golly, doesn't the Conservative Party have prominent Sikhs? I mean, doesn't it bother you religious guys that non-believers like that should have that much influence.

And I've met a few bible-thumping NDPers. Heck, they were founded by a Bible thumper. One of the first big diatribes I read against same-sex marriage in our local paper came from, of all places, an NDPer.

You see, religion and politics don't always follow the same course. Being a socialist doesn't mean one isn't a Christian. After all, I don't recall Christ anywhere advocating the kinds of economic policies one finds attached to most social conservatives and libertarians.

To be blunt, Harper has gone out of his way to distance himself from guys like you. Guys like you are the reason that election after election deprived conservatives of even the scent of government. Every election some nitwit like you would get on the ballot because Reform had this hands-off approach to most of its riding associations, and these candidates would say the sort of silly things you say, the media would latch on to it, and Reform would alienate itself even further in Ontario.

Edited December 28, 2008 by ToadBrother

Mr.Canada · December 28, 2008

There are two explanations, and I suspect either can be applicable depending on the individual:
1. The Religious Right truly hopes that the Conservatives have a secret agenda and are only waiting for gaining a majority before they begin implementing a more religious state.

2. The Religious Right really has nowhere else to turn. Racist nuts like the Heritage lunatics are about as likely to even gain a seat as the Marxist-Leninists. They managed to heavily sway Reform and the Alliance, which had a decidedly socially conservative bent, but one got the feeling that even Preston Manning was pretty uncomfortable with the influence these guys wielded.

Not really a religious state but some more proper moral values and decisions based on those values are put more of an emphasis on.

Well, I am right of Harper but am not a 'racist nut' as you would call it. That's what the left does though, label anyone who disagrees with there ideals as racists. Only the Secular Socialists are allowed to push an agenda everyone else is a racist.

ToadBrother · December 28, 2008

Not really a religious state but some more proper moral values and decisions based on those values are put more of an emphasis on.

And why should your morals take higher precedence tha mine? Why should your morals deprive two consenting adults in a committed relationship the same basic rights that a heterosexual enjoy?

No one is forcing you to accept any of these things, but by the same turn you have little right to tell other people how they should live their lives just because you have some false sense of superiority because of your own particular religious views and interpreations.

Well, I am right of Harper but am not a 'racist nut' as you would call it. That's what the left does though, label anyone who disagrees with there ideals as racists. Only the Secular Socialists are allowed to push an agenda everyone else is a racist.

The Christian Heritage guys are racist nuts. But I wasn't calling social conservatives racist nuts, I was saying that the religious right has nowhere else to go, because the more far right parties are generally pretty damned extremist.

Mr.Canada · December 28, 2008

No one is forcing you to accept any of these things, but by the same turn you have little right to tell other people how they should live their lives just because you have some false sense of superiority because of your own particular religious views and interpreations.

Yet, you socialists must tell us how to live our lives right. You see, you people are doing the same thing to the rest of us that you're trying to say we're wanting to do to you.

Exchange religious for secular and we feel the exact same way as you Urbanites. Urban people are constantly trying to tell the rst of Canada how they should live and think.

ToadBrother · December 28, 2008

Yet, you socialists must tell us how to live our lives right. You see, you people are doing the same thing to the rest of us that you're trying to say we're wanting to do to you.

1. I'm not a socialist.

2. You're the one who seems to care so much about what consenting adults do, and get so angry when they ask for the same rights that the rest of us enjoy.

3. You seem to think that having a society not based on *your* particular Biblical interpretation (that's right, buddy, there's a lot more than one) and you're own complete ignorance of history is a bad thing. I mean, aren't you the one that suggested that Thomas Jefferson was part of some socialist conspiracy.

Exchange religious for secular and we feel the exact same way as you Urbanites. Urban people are constantly trying to tell the rst of Canada how they should live and think.

I live about four miles from a town of about 13,000 people, and have lived here for all but one year of my life. Don't pigeon hole me.

punked · December 28, 2008

Yet, you socialists must tell us how to live our lives right. You see, you people are doing the same thing to the rest of us that you're trying to say we're wanting to do to you.
Exchange religious for secular and we feel the exact same way as you Urbanites. Urban people are constantly trying to tell the rst of Canada how they should live and think.

Jesus was a socialist so stop using it as a derogatory term because you wont get into heaven.

Mr.Canada · December 28, 2008

Another gem from the atheist. You're completely irrelevant in this discussion.

Explain to me what you base this on?

punked · December 28, 2008

This opinion is based on what? You're an atheist you've said and I doubt you've seriously studied anything theological apart from some blurbs here and there.
So tell us where you regurgitated this statement from please.

I am an atheist who attends Catholic church every week have a minor in Religious studies and it is based on the 613 of the Pentitude (these would be the definition of Mosaic laws BTW). Go look at them and think is this law closer to Canadian law or Saudi Arabian.

Examples:

Law 31 Ritually unclean persons must be kept out of the Temple

law 52 Every male should make a pilgrimage to the Temple 3 times per year

Law 105 A woman having a menstual discharge is unclean for 7 days

Law 218 He who violates a virgin must marry her and may never divorce her.

Do any of these sound like our laws? No that is because you made up the fact our laws are based on this. It just is not true. There are very few Mosaic laws which are fallowed today or even apply.

Mr.Canada · December 28, 2008

I have never, ever said that our laws are taken directly from the Bible. Much of our laws were originally inspired by the Bible, that is a fact plain and simple.

If you're a Catholic as I am then you are definitely not living your faith as you should be doing. If your Rev Fr is preaching for gay marriage and abortion then he needs to be excommunicated.

punked · December 28, 2008

Another gem from the atheist. You're completely irrelevant in this discussion.
Explain to me what you base this on?

Matthew 25

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Sounds like God will give those who treated the weakest the most hurt the best the kingdom of heaven and sen those nations who did not to hell. That seems like the bases of Socialism taking care of those who can not care for themselves.

punked · December 28, 2008

I have never, ever said that our laws are taken directly from the Bible. Much of our laws were originally inspired by the Bible, that is a fact plain and simple.
If you're a Catholic as I am then you are definitely not living your faith as you should be doing. If your Rev Fr is preaching for gay marriage and abortion then he needs to be excommunicated.

I think what you are insinuating is that law originated in the bible. It did not. If not then tell me a law which originated in the Bible PROVE IT. I think I have answered you questions so you answer mine. What laws?

I take my word of God from the bible why not cut out the middle man. Plus m Rev is just as a bigot as most Catholics, don't you worry.

Edited December 28, 2008 by punked

ToadBrother · December 28, 2008

I have never, ever said that our laws are taken directly from the Bible. Much of our laws were originally inspired by the Bible, that is a fact plain and simple.

Some laws, particularly those regarding adultery and the Sabbath, were certainly Biblically inspired, but even the basic structure of the ancient Hebrew law and any legal system used in Europe in the last 2000 years is highly dissimilar. Not only are the vast majority of Mosaic Laws not illegal, nor ever were illegal in any European country, but even basic features like juries do not come from Biblical laws either. The whole direction of Mosaic Law was quite apart from Continental or Common Law legal systems. By and large, Continental Law was largely based on Justinian's codifications, and English Common Law most certainly has its roots in the pre-Christian Anglo-Saxon period. I think you'd better go read up on Anglo-Saxon Common Law and the Justinian Code, becuase you don't know what you're talking about.

The Mosaic Law is not the foundation of our legal system, or of many legal systems outside of countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia, where Shariah Law clearly is based on Old Testament principles.

Edited December 28, 2008 by ToadBrother

Mr.Canada · December 28, 2008

I think what you are insinuating is that law originated in the bible. It did not. If not then tell me a law which originated in the Bible PROVE IT. I think I have answered you questions so you answer mine. What laws?
I take my word of God from the bible why not cut out the middle man. Plus m Rev is just as a bigot as most Catholics, don't you worry.

The RCC is based on the word of God. He wants us to follow His Law's as they're written and not to pick and choose what suits us. All must be followed. Small price to pay for eternal life. He gave his worldly life for us after all.

Seeing isn't believing. Believing is seeing.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Mr.Canada

punked · December 28, 2008

The RCC is based on the word of God. He wants us to follow His Law's as they're written and not to pick and choose what suits us. All must be followed. Small price to pay for eternal life. He gave his worldly life for us after all.
Seeing isn't believing. Believing is seeing.

NAME A LAW WHICH ORIGINATED IN THE BIBLE??? You can't because I do not believe you have even opened the book up.