LesterDC Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 Yet...all are constituents of a "belief system".....gods are just a subset of this. yes.. they are all "beliefs" but a religion requires more than belief.. Quote
LesterDC Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 You wish to impose your secular beliefs on me. Why can't I impose my beliefs on you. We do not make laws respecting religion or prohibiting the exercise.. We are not imposing anything on you, when it comes to legislature, religion is out of bounds Quote
MontyBurns Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 yes.. they are all "beliefs" but a religion requires more than belief.. Nobody on this planet can prove that atheism is right, so it is a belief. No different than Christianity, Judaism, etc. Quote "From my cold dead hands." Charlton Heston
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 yes.. they are all "beliefs" but a religion requires more than belief.. How so? Religions take on many forms. In the end, they are still just puny belief systems at the individual level, varying widely even amongst same devotion. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
ToadBrother Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 Nobody on this planet can prove that atheism is right, so it is a belief. No different than Christianity, Judaism, etc. A belief is not a religion. Believing that swallowing St. John's Wart will cure cancer may be wrong, but it isn't a religion. And atheism is more the lack of a belief, so it's not even a "positive" belief. At any rate, I'm not advocating atheism is some sort of state belief, and I know of no one who wants to walk into your church and start forcing atheism down your throat, or even stop you from talking about religion in the public commons, so I don't even see where you have a point. Quote
LesterDC Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 Nobody on this planet can prove that atheism is right, so it is a belief. No different than Christianity, Judaism, etc. How so? Religions take on many forms. In the end, they are still just puny belief systems at the individual level, varying widely even amongst same devotion. most things in life are subjective to perception, making anything we know require an amount of faith. Is believing that the sun will rise the next day a religion now? Deductive reason indicates that the sun will in fact rise but we really don't know if it will. You believe that an apple is an apple and that your computer screen will turn on whenever you press it - are those all religions? Quote
MontyBurns Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 We are not imposing anything on you ... You just want to censor anything religious in nature. Quote "From my cold dead hands." Charlton Heston
ToadBrother Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 What is your point? Separation of Church and State is not exclusive to a specific country.. It predates Jefferson. John Locke was probably the first guy to really produce the concept in a meaningful form. Quote
LesterDC Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 At any rate, I'm not advocating atheism is some sort of state belief, and I know of no one who wants to walk into your church and start forcing atheism down your throat, or even stop you from talking about religion in the public commons, so I don't even see where you have a point. Yes, Canada is not atheist, we are secular.. There is a difference, me and toad have cited the differences many times already Quote
LesterDC Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 It predates Jefferson. John Locke was probably the first guy to really produce the concept in a meaningful form. Yes but Jefferson said it nicely lol Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 most things in life are subjective to perception, making anything we know require an amount of faith. Is believing that the sun will rise the next day a religion now? Yes....I worship the sun as the only true god. Without such thermonuclear power, we wouldn't exist. I guess that makes me a pagan compared to things like the Jesus Christ Fan Club. Deductive reason indicates that the sun will in fact rise but we really don't know if it will. You believe that an apple is an apple and that your computer screen will turn on whenever you press it - are those all religions? The sun does not rise....the Earth rotates on its axis. My computer / monitor is not nearly as reliable, so I don't believe it will always work. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
ToadBrother Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 You just want to censor anything religious in nature. That's ludicrous. You're clearly just making things up now. Quote
LesterDC Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 Yes....I worship the sun as the only true god. Without such thermonuclear power, we wouldn't exist. I guess that makes me a pagan compared to things like the Jesus Christ Fan Club.The sun does not rise....the Earth rotates on its axis. My computer / monitor is not nearly as reliable, so I don't believe it will always work. Right.. I believe that you are pulling my leg here.. (Whoops, I just adopted a new religion) You know the principle behind my argument and now you are just picking at semantics. If you don't believe that your monitor will turn on, why did you try? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 What is your point? Separation of Church and State is not exclusive to a specific country.. But this thread is. Separation of Church and State was not absolute before or after Jefferson letters.....and certainly not in all countries. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
MontyBurns Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 That's ludicrous. You're clearly just making things up now. Thats what secularists do. Ever heard the phrase "Happy Holidays"? Maybe you should move to North Korea to get the full benefit from secularism. Quote "From my cold dead hands." Charlton Heston
LesterDC Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 But this thread is.Separation of Church and State was not absolute before or after Jefferson letters.....and certainly not in all countries. Jefferson summed up the separation of Church and State. The same principle applies to any country that separates church and state... Why I cannot relate the quote to our situation is beyond me. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 (edited) Jefferson summed up the separation of Church and State. The same principle applies to any country that separates church and state... Why I cannot relate the quote to our situation is beyond me. Go back and read your own post....Jefferson's words include qualifications that do not exist universally. Does Canada have such walls enshrined in the Constitution? Edited January 11, 2009 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
MontyBurns Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 Separation of Church and State was not absolute before or after Jefferson letters.....and certainly not in all countries. Nobody, whether religious or secular can remove their beliefs when making political decisions. Quote "From my cold dead hands." Charlton Heston
LesterDC Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 Go back and read your own post....Jefferson's words include qualifications that do not exist universally. Making laws not respecting religion but also not prohibiting the exercise? Sounds like what we do up here.. Quote
normanchateau Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 Isn't God supposed to be benevolent? Here's an excerpt from the fifth commandment. Perhaps it will answer your question. " ...for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents..." Benevolent? Sounds more like he's in need of medication or other therapy. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 Making laws not respecting religion but also not prohibiting the exercise? Sounds like what we do up here.. Please cite the constitutional language.....why did Ontario fund Catholic schools? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
whowhere Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 most things in life are subjective to perception, making anything we know require an amount of faith. Is believing that the sun will rise the next day a religion now? Deductive reason indicates that the sun will in fact rise but we really don't know if it will. You believe that an apple is an apple and that your computer screen will turn on whenever you press it - are those all religions? What are talking about. Talk to some sense. Get off the crack pipe. Quote Job 40 (King James Version) 11 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him. 12 Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. 13 Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.
whowhere Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 Go back and read your own post....Jefferson's words include qualifications that do not exist universally. Does Canada have such walls enshrined in the Constitution? Canada is a Country without a constitution, a real history, a religion or culture to call its own. Canada is a geographical fraud that only exist because of historical forces. Canada is nation of talkers who are weak on action and delivery. Quote Job 40 (King James Version) 11 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him. 12 Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. 13 Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.
ToadBrother Posted January 11, 2009 Report Posted January 11, 2009 Nobody, whether religious or secular can remove their beliefs when making political decisions. I don't think we could ask them to, but if you're going to pass a law informed by your religious beliefs, it has to have some sort of wider justification than "God says so". Surely that's not a bad thing, is it? Even within Christianity, there are wide discrepancies in belief, so one still has to govern with pragmatism. But you're point seems to be weakening very heavily now, because, I suspect, that you're just being reactionary. Quote
Mr.Canada Posted January 11, 2009 Author Report Posted January 11, 2009 Nobody, whether religious or secular can remove their beliefs when making political decisions. Precisely, the socialists will never see the hypocrisy of their own arguments as they believe man to be divine and their socialist ideals to be above all others. They wish to force their secular, homosexual loving, we are the world way of life on the entire country and planet. Any disagreement will be met with name calling and bullying tactics. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
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