rparrish Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 OK. First of all I am from Alberta, and my beliefs are conservative but let me express my general opinion. If this sounds biased to any of you who read this i appologize but i really feel the need to vent my frustration and im sure a few others here have done so as well. Let me start with what i think about Harper getting the OK from G.G. to shut down parliament until the new year. Why is everyone(the socialists) so beefed about this? Sure you can say he's running and hiding and he probably is but what else would you do? If this coalition idea is the real deal then yes he is just prolonging his problems but this was the best course of action. Everyone in their respective parties will have some time to think about this and develop a gameplan. Everything in this country happens to fast(i.e. random elections) and i could talk about how a 2 party system would be better but that will just cause an argument so i wont. Second thing is everyone complaining about Harper essentially saying its illegal for the other parties to do this. Technically under the rules of parliament theres no problem but to me its morally illegal. Yes we voted and we gave them a minority government but we still voted. The only morally responsible thing to do is have another election(another waste of $300 million) but is it ever REALLY a democracy unless you let the people decide? From most of the folks ive talked to(who didn't vote before), they are really considering it now and maybe this is the "wake-up call" we all needed. How do you increase voter turnout? Do something immoral that the people will actually take notice of. Third thing is...and ive always said this, how can you have a "democracy" when you have a provincial party acting nationally? The fact the Bloc Quebecois even exist is a testament to how useless our political system is. Do you honestly think we'd have so many minority governments if we just had 3 national parties. Granted the liberals would win everytime but it would be more interesting and things would actually get done. Fourth thing doesn't have much to do with the current situation but whatever happened to national referendums? Everyone in our society is becoming so accepting these days without challenging or really even caring about the values we all grew up with. Of course im talking about the moral issues that make use choose political sides if there are no other reasons for us to do so...again, let the people decide. And really IT IS moral issues that should be the backbone of what party a certain person represents. When you have half the liberals voting against same sex marriage and half the conservatives voting for it something is definetly wrong. You also can't tell me those conservatives voting for it had the majority consent of their riding to do so. Of course my numbers are exxagerated but i hope you see what I mean. LET the people decide...on everything, THATS democracy. Not having seperatist parties that have no business being there, not creating a coalition to topple the current government without asking the people, and not having so many parties that everyone distributes the vote just enough so that we have a minority government who doesnt get anything done (not that they can't or arent trying, but not being allowed to because everyone else sets aside their differences and teams up just to spite the minority regaurdless of what the issue at hand is) Just my two cents. Quote
-VMG- Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 I read part of it... and i'll comment on it... but seriously the wall of text is not your friend.... please make some paragraphs... your 2 cents might be worth that if you. Not being mean but honestly it's very hard to follow a post that is one long paragraph. As far as what i read. What is an election going to do? Put another minority government in place? That's not going to get anything done. Hopefully all parties can come to some sense and see that Canadians want an election if this is going to happen... and since thats a waste of money, they should work together to govern the country. Neither side is doing the right thing... how harper leads creates a very unstable and resentful house of commons. How the other parties act, as much as they believe it is the best for the country.. at this time it apparently isn't. We don't want an election based on emotions on either side... there will be people who will regret their vote of anger rather than reason. If you could please seperate your paragraph i would love to comment on the rest. Quote
wulf42 Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) The Liberals have handed Harper his Majority if an election were to be called now by the Governor General, Canadians are disgusted by this potential Coalition and see it as a bloodless Coup attempt and with the NDP,Liberals siding with the Bloc? well that has just finished any real hope of ever getting elected....Canadians see the Liberals and NDP for what they are ...Harper has gained more support than ever and most Canadians see him as the man to lead this country. The Liberals couldn't have hurt their party anymore than they have in the last few weeks and many Liberals are turning on Dion......his speech was laughable! a four year old could have made a better video.......lol, Watching the Liberal party destroy itself is actually quite amusing. Edited December 5, 2008 by wulf42 Quote
M.Dancer Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 The Liberals have handed Harper his Majority if an election were to be called now .... According to the latest poll on the subject... http://www.legermarketing.com/eng/ Voting intentions remain the same so unless the Conservatives run a brilliant campaign (past showings no so good) and the Bloc falls flat the results are likely to be the same. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
wulf42 Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 According to the latest poll on the subject...http://www.legermarketing.com/eng/ Voting intentions remain the same so unless the Conservatives run a brilliant campaign (past showings no so good) and the Bloc falls flat the results are likely to be the same. How wrong you are my friend! http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...html?id=1032813 Quote
Wilber Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 No it's not, we just had one. It's time they earned their money and do what they were elected to do. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
wulf42 Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 No it's not, we just had one. It's time they earned their money and do what they were elected to do. A minority Goverment hasn't worked, does not work, will not work! we have all seen that, it makes more sense to call an election now and allow the conservatives to have full control and then we will finally be getting somewhere! Quote
Wilber Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 A minority Goverment hasn't worked, does not work, will not work! we have all seen that, it makes more sense to call an election now and allow the conservatives to have full control and then we will finally be getting somewhere! Minority governments can work it the spirit is there to make them work. If another election produces another minority, what then? Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
guyser Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 A minority Goverment hasn't worked, does not work, will not work! we have all seen that, it makes more sense to call an election now and allow the conservatives to have full control and then we will finally be getting somewhere! ..and another minority means what? Quote
ToadBrother Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 A minority Goverment hasn't worked, does not work, will not work! we have all seen that, it makes more sense to call an election now and allow the conservatives to have full control and then we will finally be getting somewhere! What? Further abuse of power to punish the Opposition? I don't think the Tories have demonstrated they've earned the right to unimpeded government, not until they make it clear that Harper is going to be replaced or at least leashed. Quote
wulf42 Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) ..and another minority means what? Right now i think there is more chance of the Earth being hit by Haley's Comet than the Conservatives NOT getting a majority.....lol Edited December 5, 2008 by wulf42 Quote
DFCaper Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) If there was another Election, and Harper is not given a Majority, does that mean that the Opposition would be given a mandate to form a Coalition Government? What do you think? Edited December 5, 2008 by DFCaper Quote "Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it" - Hellen Keller "Success is not measured by the heights one attains, but by the obstacles one overcomes in its attainment" - Booker T. Washington
wulf42 Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) If there was another Election, and Harper is not given a Majority, does that mean that the Opposition would be given a mandate to form a Coalition Government? What do you think? The NDP and the Liberals couldn't be in worse shape .........the Liberals don't have an effective leader and Taliban Jack? well nobody listens to him anyway.....lol. Dion has effectively screwed the Liberals but good....it will be a long time before the People of Canada will forget that these two parties were ready to side with Bloc just to satify their power hungry agenda's rather than worry about everyday Canadians in a time of economic uncertainty! Edited December 5, 2008 by wulf42 Quote
BC_chick Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 Right now i think there is more chance of the Earth being hit by Haley's Comet than the Conservatives NOT getting a majority.....lol The rejection of the coalition, though democratically questionable by all constitutional experts, was good for the Liberals in the long run. Canadians would have resented the new government and that's why Jean chose the option which will best serve the needs of Canadians in the long run. Your victory is hollow. Your party's impatience with wanting a majority will be the cause of its own demise. You propose measures right after an election where you back the opposition into a corner. Did you expect them to vote for their own demise because you were so sure they would never trigger another election? The opposition called your bluff and chose a different route and you didn't see that coming. Harper went running, and trust, Dion's not the only shaken party leader right now. You were better off gaining the Canadian people's respect by working across party lines instead of cutting everyone's throat. You're sadly mistaken if you think Harper's going to come out unscathed in the long run. Dion's good as gone. Harper's antics will always be remembered. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
jdobbin Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 If another election produces another minority, what then? So if Harper calls the election himself before May you would change your vote? Quote
jdobbin Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) ..and another minority means what? War. The fights would be just as bad as ever. Edited December 5, 2008 by jdobbin Quote
guyser Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 ....it will be a long time before the People of Canada will forget that these two parties were ready to side with Bloc just to satify their power hungry agenda's rather than worry about everyday Canadians in a time of economic uncertainty! And all the while forgettting that Harper proposed the same (without the eco crisis) Quote
jdobbin Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 Right now i think there is more chance of the Earth being hit by Haley's Comet than the Conservatives NOT getting a majority.....lol Then he should return to the Governor General now and ask for one. Quote
Wild Bill Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 If there was another Election, and Harper is not given a Majority, does that mean that the Opposition would be given a mandate to form a Coalition Government? What do you think? I think you're talking apples and oranges! If the Opposition wants a mandate to form a Coalition Government, they should run an election campaign as a coalition so that Canadians are made perfectly aware that is what they intend to do. The choice should be quite clear. You vote for a party or you vote for a coalition. Anything else is just sneaky! Legal maybe, but nobody likes a skunk at a picnic. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
guyser Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 If the Opposition wants a mandate to form a Coalition Government, they should run an election campaign as a coalition so that Canadians are made perfectly aware that is what they intend to do. The choice should be quite clear. You vote for a party or you vote for a coalition. You cant, and you know it. The same way Harper didnt platform on a coalition govt but he did pen a letter suggesting that. Anything else is just sneaky! Legal maybe, but nobody likes a skunk at a picnic. Its not, its politics. If you want to call politicians skunky well , no arguement, have at it ! Quote
wulf42 Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) The rejection of the coalition, though democratically questionable by all constitutional experts, was good for the Liberals in the long run. Canadians would have resented the new government and that's why Jean chose the option which will best serve the needs of Canadians in the long run. Your victory is hollow. Your party's impatience with wanting a majority will be the cause of its own demise. You propose measures right after an election where you back the opposition into a corner. Did you expect them to vote for their own demise because you were so sure they would never trigger another election? The opposition called your bluff and chose a different route and you didn't see that coming. Harper went running, and trust, Dion's not the only shaken party leader right now. You were better off gaining the Canadian people's respect by working across party lines instead of cutting everyone's throat. You're sadly mistaken if you think Harper's going to come out unscathed in the long run. Dion's good as gone. Harper's antics will always be remembered. The Liberals will be hurting from this for a long long time.......i don't see how its a hollow victory when even more Canadians are turning against the Liberals,Harper is in a more stronger position than ever! he came out of this looking like a hero and Dion is coming out of it looking like a ....er well kind of an idiot. Edited December 5, 2008 by wulf42 Quote
Slim MacSquinty Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 This is not the time to appear to be overly political or self interested, the reason the coalition members have all lost in this fiasco is because they looked to be power hungry putting self interest above the interests of the country. Long term gains can be solidified by being a statesman above the frey looking out for you and me. Quote
wulf42 Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 Then he should return to the Governor General now and ask for one. Yes i agree! Quote
jdobbin Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 Yes i agree! Be sure to encourage him strongly. Quote
wulf42 Posted December 5, 2008 Report Posted December 5, 2008 Be sure to encourage him strongly. I don't know whats holding him back?? Harper would be a Majority sitting PM! Quote
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