Separation vs. Sovereignty

[fellowtraveller]

I notice that Phacochere has vanished, perhaps the question of the divisibility of Canada and Quebec was overwhelming.

Separatists tend to get very agitated or invisible when that old dog gets hunting.

[Oleg Bach]

I notice that Phacochere has vanished, perhaps the question of the divisibility of Canada and Quebec was overwhelming.

Separatists tend to get very agitated or invisible when that old dog gets hunting.

Seperatists are like loud teenagers who demand respect from their parents - and if that parent says to them - Go - make it on your own -no credit cards - no cash and no more loving support you are on your own - Quebec would be like the little kids you kick out of the car for making to much fuss...You drop them off in a parkinglot - and they smile - "We have cab fare" - They know you are coming back for them.

[Hydraboss]

Oleg, I'd like to challenge your statement.

Not ALL seperatists are as you describe. There are those of us who wouldn't wait for "Mom and Dad's cab fare" considering we're the ones who earn the cash. Now, Kwebek seperatists are an entirely different breed. They wouldn't survive the first quarter on their own.

Alberta is a different story altogether.

[Wilber]

Everyone has problems. I prefer to work within our system and where I stand, it seems to be working just fine. The mechanisms that are in place are allowing it to work. There's nothing wrong with our federation despite what some believe.

Working just great. We have no government for at least eight weeks because of a bunch of kids who needed a time out and national unity has been put back to post Meach Lake. Terrific.

[Smallc]

Working just great. We have no government for at least eight weeks because of a bunch of kids who needed a time out and national unity has been put back to post Meach Lake. Terrific.

We have no parliament for 8 weeks, we do have a government.

http://www.gc.ca/home.html

Site even works and everything.

[Wilber]

We have no parliament for 8 weeks, we do have a government.

http://www.gc.ca/home.html

Site even works and everything.

We have a government that can administer but not legislate. We are basically in the same position as if an election had been called and we were waiting for the result.

[Smallc]

We have a government that can administer but not legislate. We are basically in the same position as if an election had been called and we were waiting for the result.

Well, they can legislate on a governor generals warrant if absolutely necessary. The thing is, they were only going to sit for another week anyway, and they were only going to pass one thing in that time......and most of what would have been passed in that thing was retracted anyway. Really, its almost exactly as it would have been anyway.

[Wilber]

Well, they can legislate on a governor generals warrant if absolutely necessary. The thing is, they were only going to sit for another week anyway, and they were only going to pass one thing in that time......and most of what would have been passed in that thing was retracted anyway. Really, its almost exactly as it would have been anyway.

Then why the mad rush to form a coalition and act NOOOOWWW? From a practical point of view I agree but what if this had taken place at the beginning or in the middle of a session? The optics suck and we look like the asses of the G8 as we should.

[reasonoverpassion]

Then why the mad rush to form a coalition and act NOOOOWWW? From a practical point of view I agree but what if this had taken place at the beginning or in the middle of a session? The optics suck and we look like the asses of the G8 as we should.

What are you talking about?? The vast majority of the G8 understand and accept as normal coalition governments. Its only foreign to Canadians because we subscribe to pure FPP. Introduce any form of proportional representation and coaltions become commonplace

[Smallc]

What we need is a massive education campaign along with some type of Senate equalization. That would go a long way to fixing the few holes in our system.

Oh, and fix it so that the provinces that have grown have their fair share of HoC seats. Ontario is going to get short changed in the next adjustment just as it did in the last one.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Smallc

[Wilber]

What are you talking about?? The vast majority of the G8 understand and accept as normal coalition governments. Its only foreign to Canadians because we subscribe to pure FPP. Introduce any form of proportional representation and coaltions become commonplace

I was watching BNN last night and they were interviewing a US fund manager. While he didn't have large Canadian positions, he sold what he had. His reasoning was that although he wasn't particularly worried about them, he didn't understand what was going on so why be invested here in the present economic climate. Investors are looking for stability, if you can't demonstrate it, adiós.

[Smallc]

I was watching BNN last night and they were interviewing a US fund manager. While he didn't have large Canadian positions, he sold what he had. His reasoning was that although he wasn't particularly worried about them, he didn't understand what was going on so why be invested here in the present economic climate. Investors are looking for stability, if you can't demonstrate it, adiós.

The Us system is very unique. The US may be wondering what's going on, but a big chunk of the rest of the world understands it perfectly.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Smallc

[Peter F]

I was watching BNN last night and they were interviewing a US fund manager. While he didn't have large Canadian positions, he sold what he had. His reasoning was that although he wasn't particularly worried about them, he didn't understand what was going on so why be invested here in the present economic climate. Investors are looking for stability, if you can't demonstrate it, adiós.

Ah, the sound investment strategies of Fund Managers: "I don't understand what they're going on about, so I sold"

And we should pander to these shallow fools?

[Wilber]

Ah, the sound investment strategies of Fund Managers: "I don't understand what they're going on about, so I sold"

And we should pander to these shallow fools?

Just pointing out that they have options. I wouldn't invest in a country that is undergoing some political insecurity that I didn't understand. Why should I?

[Wilber]

The Us system is very unique. The US may be wondering what's going on, but a big chunk of the rest of the world understands it perfectly.

Not when it comes to money. I'm sure much of the rest of the world does but just understanding something is not a reason to put your money here. It may be just as good a reason not to.

[Smallc]

Not when it comes to money. I'm sure much of the rest of the world does but just understanding something is not a reason to put your money here. It may be just as good a reason not to.

A large number of the worlds parliamentary democracies don't only know about this, but have experienced it. This will blow over and people will get over it. Investment will continue, even if it slows somewhat. There's not really much else to say.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Smallc

[Peter F]

Just pointing out that they have options. I wouldn't invest in a country that is undergoing some political insecurity that I didn't understand. Why should I?

Of course the investor gets to invest or not in whatever they wish for whatever reasons satisfy them.

But that doesn't mean we should pander to their every irrational whim. Lordy, what do these investors do during an election? Dump canadian investments wholesale?

Should we then not have an opposition that complains endlessly about the government? Perhaps a good system is where any opposition acts as cheerleader for the governing party? That would have kept Canada off the moron-fund managers radar and the investments would have stayed invested.

Sorry. Our politics outwiegh rediculous investment strategy's.

[Wilber]

Sorry. Our politics outwiegh rediculous investment strategy's.

No argument there but just be aware that there are consequences for everything. If you think that our politicians can en mass act like absolute asses and not have markets react, you're wrong.

[Smallc]

If you think that our politicians can en mass act like absolute asses and not have markets react, you're wrong.

I think that's the real problem. Its not much the system itself, but rather the fact that our politicians suddenly seemed to go insane.

[Peter F]

No argument there but just be aware that there are consequences for everything. If you think that our politicians can en mass act like absolute asses and not have markets react, you're wrong.

I would be wrong if I thought that, yes. But I know markets react to everything and anything. Hell, Prime Ministers and Kings passing wind affect markets. Even peace and quiet affect markets.

[Wilber]

I would be wrong if I thought that, yes. But I know markets react to everything and anything. Hell, Prime Ministers and Kings passing wind affect markets. Even peace and quiet affect markets.

Look, right now the world is falling all over itself to buy 30 year US treasuries at 3% because they are looking for stability at all costs. Who in their right mind ties up their money for 30 years for a 3% before tax return but they are. We are looking at big deficits to stimulate the economy which means our government will need to borrow lots of money. An investor looks at Congress struggling to work together and find a solution in the US, then they look at or Parliament which can't seem to get together long enough to organize a piss up in a brewery and who's paper do you think they are going to buy? If they do buy ours they will want a premium if we can't show them the stability they desire. Maybe they will want 5% for the extra risk they perceive, real or not. Guess who is going to get stuck paying that extra 2% premium boys and girls? You and I.

[Peter F]

I see. So under what circumstances should opposition parties actually oppose the government? Only when that government has a majority in parliament?

What should the opposition parties have done? Let the conservatives do whatever they want for fear of fund managers making decisions?

[Wilber]

I see. So under what circumstances should opposition parties actually oppose the government? Only when that government has a majority in parliament?

What should the opposition parties have done? Let the conservatives do whatever they want for fear of fund managers making decisions?

I'm not blaming all this on the opposition but our parliamentarians in general. I do think that most of these people are intelligent and well meaning and after they calm down, hopefully they will able to find it within themselves to act in the best interests of the country instead of partisan interests. On the downside, that will be much more difficult to do without some real leadership and I haven't seen much in the way of that from any of them lately. That leadership needs to start at the top which means the Prime Minister but it still won't work unless all the other party leaders are willing to step up.

[Oleg Bach]

Quebec is like a divorced unfaithful partner who demands support payments while she continues to betray you at a distance. Quebec is seperate and is offically seperated from Canada - now get on with it and file suit against this paristic entity..and cut off all support - If she decides to come home and be part of the family again..we can talk...in the mean time let her go to her father FRANCE...and ask for spare change. She was never loyal. Quebec should have been "Flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone - forsaking all others" Quebec never put her husband first..she was always stuck on dad...The marriage failed because of this immaturity on the part of this french bride.

[cybercoma]

Make no mistake about it, while the LPQ may not be a separatist party like ADQ and the PQ, they still hold a dualist view of Canada.