Flaherty to slash public funding for federal parties

[jdobbin]

Yes, but what stopped them is that they can never agree on enough to sustain a government. Running a coalition is even harder than running a minority, unless you're being propped up by a weakling afraid to go to the polls. In this case you'll have a weakling being propped up by a pair of fire-breathers. And how is that going to be managed anyway? It would take some very careful diplomatic work and compromises - none of which Dion has shown any talent for.

I guess that is up to the Liberals to decide if they can do. The Governor General is only responsible for asking the Opposition if they can do it.

Adam Radwanski was uncompromising in his criticism of Harper's attempt to eliminate election funding for the opposition, but even he is incredulous at the thought of Stephan Dion running a coallition government.

Don't know that it will be Dion leading the coalition, do you?

A quick review: Stephane Dion is a notoriously stubborn lone wolf. In a cabinet made up entirely of federal Liberals, he had few friends and managed to irritate more than a few colleagues. Not only was he unable to rally his whole party around him; his own office was split into factions, and his national campaign was split into several more.

Quick review: Dion will not be Liberal leader in May. A coalition will be a very different animal and it is not entirely clear Dion will be PM.

This is the guy who's going to lead a coalition of Liberals, socialists and sovereigntists?

The Bloc is not part of the coalition. Where did you hear that?

I guess this has been sent out as part of the new Liberal Party line since I just heard if it from another party hack on TV. More anti-Americanism, more "Americans are hateful, evil bastards and Harper is a friend of theirs!!"

What utter crap. Even Tory spokesmen keep saying they are waiting to hear what the U.S. wants to do. Give it a rest.

I don't have a ton of enthusiasm for this government, as I've already stated a few times over the past few weeks, but the idea of a Dion led coallition only makes me giggle. I can't see any way such a government can function without the Liberals being irredeemably tainted by the compromises necessary to satisfy the separatists - and/or the absurdly wasteful and anti business agenda of the socialists.

I keep hearing Igntaieff's name mentioned as the new PM although that might be premature. I expect a few names other who is running for the leadership will be asked to lead. We could be seeing John McCallum since he one of the few bilingual guys to do the job.

And just what are the bobsey twins who hope to take power after Dion going to think of THAT? Bad enough they were hoping on ruling a party in tough economic shape, but now in addition to that it'll be a party with a seething mass of the population hating their guts because of how they bent over and took it from Gilles Duceppe and plunged us into an even deeper recession with an immense deficit because of having to accept absurd NDP tax programs. The prospect can only fill them with horror. Dion is an ass whose eyes are shining with the last minute desperate hope that he can STILL after all that's passed, be Prime Minister, but one would expect Rae and Ignatieff to be looking a year down the road to the inevitable calamitous collapse of this "coallition" and quaking in their Gucci loafers.

Again, you assume that Dion will be leader. I keep hearing differently.

[madmax]

You clearly haven't got the faintest, foggiest clue how government and bureaucracy works.

In order to put out a proper economic stimulus package you need to do a lot of consultation with industry and with the bureaucracy, otherwise you're just throwing money into the wind and hoping some of it does some good. That takes months on its own - which the Conservatives have done and which the libsocialseparatist party has not, of course, engaged in. Then you have to inform the bureaucracy and let the information peculate downward. New processes and programs require bureaucratic adjustment, the shifting of employees, the printing of forms and documents, the writing of operations manuals. You're going to give money to business? All business? Unlikely. Just certain ones who qualify, presumably. What are the rules going to be? Who is going to administer them? What will be the application process? Let's presume it will be my agency, CRA. After senior managers and the government have figured out exactly who will qualify and under what circumstances, those senior managers have to go back and brief their program managers.

All very true.

So, will the CPC MPs have to switch seats, and move to the opposite side of the house?

I heard Mr Harper held a press conference. He didn't want to talk to the press. This could be his last opportunity as PM to speak to them. I hope they are as interested in him when he is in opposition as he was to them as PM.

Apparently the gist of the press conference is this.... "ITS NOT FAIR".

This is all so bizarre how Mr Harper has messed this up so pathetically. Flaherty is finished, and they are hoping to make this go another week with procedural delays.

The media is right. The train has left the station.

Ironically, I have read numerous, numerous bloggers that say the NDP could benefit from the CPC position to change public funding. Most all of them say that the LPC and The GPC would be in dire straits and the BQ would be F(($#.

So, how did this go so wrong?

1) the guy uses a hammer to break eggs.

2) he forgot ...... Joe who.

[jdobbin]

With respect Jdobbin, you're arguing like a lawyer. Technically, yes it would be legal. Would the average man on the street find it ethical? It would be interesting to see!

Since the majority of people didn't vote for the Tories, I suspect most would not make a big deal of it. No need for an election if there no stomach in the country for it as the Tories keep telling us.

The only time we ever had a coalition government was war time. The Liberals not being in power is simply not as important to the nation to justify a coalition government today.

Harper always says we are are war. You disagree?

To me this seems like partisanship run amok. You disagree. Well, we don't have to convince each other. The final judge is the Canadian people. I think the Opposition may have forgotten them in their zeal to find a way to negate the last electoral choice.

Exactly. Harper has a minority and decided to follow Tom Flanagan's advice and to play hardball to crush all Opposition. He then decided to wait to act even though the OECD says Canada is in recession now. He has lost confidence of the House.

What's supposed to be the big issue to get Canadians to repent and change their vote away from the Tories? That the Opposition can't get ordinary people to donate even small amounts of money to them? That without donations from the rich and the powerful corporate barons they are bankrupt? That they can only survive on tax money rebates for getting votes?

That Harper wanted to change the rules to force all parties to rely on individual, reasonable voluntary donations?

It is about the economy. That was what Harper said this economic update was for. Instead, he said stay tuned.

I keep harping on this I know but it bears repeating. The Average Joe is NOT a political junkie! And contrary to the belief in some quarters, he is not born with a strong instinct to vote Liberal. I think that Canadians in the main will fiercely resent what is an obvious political coup, depriving them of the chance to vote. I don't think the Opposition parties have thought about what voters will think when they DO next get a chance to vote!

So you are saying the Opposition should not vote no confidence when they don't believe the government is acting on issues they think is important?

Just because Canadians usually seem politically apathetic is a poor reason to believe that you can pull any political game you want. There is always the danger that you might wake the sheep up. Historically, we sheep get angry when woken! There are certain buttons you should never push in politics. It's one thing to note apathy towards voting. It's quite another towards removing the opportunity to vote, rationalizing it by saying "It's technically legal! It's technically legal!"

It isn't technically legal. It is legal.

And I doubt we are about to see anger in the streets except for Tory supporters who seems stunned their brinkmanship has resulted in coming to the brink.

I almost wish the scenario would play out. I have faith that my fellow citizens would give the Opposition parties the spanking they deserve, eventually giving them all fewer seats than they have now! If they didn't, then maybe we don't deserve to be a free democracy. We should just let whichever party can come up with the best nitpicking constitutional argument govern unopposed.

You're free to vote accordingly in the next election. I suspect if Harper is ousted, his own party might question his prowess at strategy. How many kicks at the can will he get?

Demoting Prentice might have been a big mistake.

[Argus]

Really. When Canada makes a budget, the change can be made instantly unlike some other countries where the process churns slowly.

Again, you are completely clueless. Tax law is a complicated beast and takes quite a while to shift even a little bit.

You obviously disagree which means you really don't know or don't remember how fast a tax can be cut, increased or how fast a measure can take place.

Yes, just because I work for CRA and am involved in taxation and benefit programs and changes to those programs doesn't mean I know anything about tax programs.

Put $1 billion into infrastructure and it will increase employment by 11,000 people.

A billion bucks is chump change. Building the first stage of the subway in Ottawa is pegged at over that. So who is going to get it? Duceppe will insist Quebec get a ton of it. The NDP will insist lots of it goes to their areas. Which programs get the money and on what basis do you make your decisions? Who administers this new infrastructure program? What guidelines do they use?

Absolute and complete baloney. Infrastructure spending can start immediately. You don't need a huge plan. There is already a long list of projects in water, sewer, road and highway work that each municipality has budgeted but have to wait for money to do.

Oh of course we don't need no steenking plan! Money for everyone! Money for canoe museums and roads to nowhere, for fountains in the PMs riding and hockey arenas in Duceppe's!

But which projects are likely to accomplish the most? Oh we don't care about that! Just spend the money on stuff! Stuff in Liberal ridings, presumably - oopps, in Separliberalist ridings. Oh there won't be any fighting about THAT in the new grand coallition, I'm sure! LOL.

Any rush-rush program will be ENTIRELY designed for public relations purposes, without regard to whether it provides any stimulus to the economy. And one can assume that a lot of sticky fingers will walk away clutching bills, too. I mean, there ain't no rules after all! Maybe Dion's son wants some money to pave his driveway!

[madmax]

Again, you assume that Dion will be leader. I keep hearing differently.

IF there is anything you can do.... ANYTHING to keep that brainfartegghead away from the Prime Ministers chair....if you hear differently that there are other options then an idiot, get it out to as many sources as possible.

I cannot stomach that guy nor can I trust what hairbrained nutty ideas he can come up with. Not even for a day and hour or a minute.

You are replacing the Prime Minister for gawd sakes.....This is important.

The LPC finished with their worst showing because of him.

The LPC have been given an early christmas present because of Harper, not DION.

Dion is not a welcome sight within the LPC and certainly not outside of it.

Please don't make me puke on Monday.....

[jdobbin]

Help me out here: You don't agree with the deficits, yet you want an economic stimulus package passed out? Where is this money coming from?

A restoration of the GST and all of it aimed at infrastructure. Each billion equally 11,000 jobs.

Now, was that hard?

[Smallc]

Again, you are completely clueless. Tax law is a complicated beast and takes quite a while to shift even a little bit.

Ummm, you can make changes retroactive. Its been done quite a few times. You can also make changes at the drop of the hat. Its been done quite a few times. Paul Martin made changes in the fiscal update that either started 2 months later or were retroactive to the beginning of the year and took place immediately.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Smallc

[madmax]

A restoration of the GST and all of it aimed at infrastructure. Each billion equally 11,000 jobs.

Now, was that hard?

Bloody hell@@@

IT has frozen over.

Edited November 28, 2008 by madmax

[Smallc]

A restoration of the GST and all of it aimed at infrastructure. Each billion equally 11,000 jobs.

Now, was that hard?

I think that the three parties could support that.

[Argus]

So you are saying the Opposition should not vote no confidence when they don't believe the government is acting on issues they think is important?

Ahh, there's that shameless hypocrisy which I despise Liberals so much for.

This has NOTHING to do with the economic statement, and EVERYTHING to do with Harper's threat to take away their welfare money, and you know it. Now Dion has stars in his eyes, imagining himself as Prime Minister Dion, and is going for it. Screw the country. He couldn't care less. He's after power. This is for him, not the country. Same as Layton.

And if you think Dion once he's prime minister is going to gracefully give way to Ignatieff or Rae you really are a fool.

[jdobbin]

IF there is anything you can do.... ANYTHING to keep that brainfartegghead away from the Prime Ministers chair....if you hear differently that there are other options then an idiot, get it out to as many sources as possible.

I suspect that we will see someone fronted as acting PM. It certainly can't be someone running for the leadership since they have even resigned their critic positions.

It has to be someone that the NDP will support and while they might support Dion, the Liberals probably won't. I expect we will see an acting PM chosen.

That person has to be bilingual, experienced and someone who can juggle.

I think the people who might find this most awkward are the people running for the Liberal leadership since they will be out of government for six months. I can't see any of them holding a cabinet position while running.

[Argus]

A restoration of the GST and all of it aimed at infrastructure. Each billion equally 11,000 jobs.

Now, was that hard?

Ah yes, the old left wing solution to all problems. RAISE TAXES!

And just as we're entering a recession too. Good idea!

Take money out of people's hands - so they can't spend it - and spend it ourselves! Cause we'll spend it more wisely!

Of course, all those infrastructure jobs are temporary, and disappear the instant the money isn't there. Meanwhile the jobs you destroy by increasing taxation were permanent ones.

[madmax]

This has NOTHING to do with the economic statement, and EVERYTHING to do with Harper's threat to take away their welfare money, and you know it.

its not fair.

[Argus]

I think that the three parties could support that.

All you lefties seem to think that taking money out of the economy through taxation in order to put it back INTO the economy through government spending is a reaaall good idea.

No one on the planet who knows anything about economics agrees with you, of course.

[Smallc]

Ahh, there's that shameless hypocrisy which I despise Liberals so much for.

This has NOTHING to do with the economic statement, and EVERYTHING to do with Harper's threat to take away their welfare money, and you know it.

I disagree. This has to do with many things. Hypocrisy, back stabbing, lack of action, and attempts to remove rights. This economic update was terrible. There is no other way to describe it.

[Argus]

I suspect that we will see someone fronted as acting PM. It certainly can't be someone running for the leadership since they have even resigned their critic positions.

It has to be someone that the NDP will support and while they might support Dion, the Liberals probably won't. I expect we will see an acting PM chosen.

Hmm, and the front runner is Igantieff and the NDP hate him, so they'll veto him as leader. Gee, who will they permit you Liberals to put in as leader?

Bob Rae!

Rae will do for Canada in this election what he did for Ontario in the last one.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Argus

[jdobbin]

Ahh, there's that shameless hypocrisy which I despise Liberals so much for.

I'm sure you will despise them till the day you die so that isn't much of a change.

This has NOTHING to do with the economic statement, and EVERYTHING to do with Harper's threat to take away their welfare money, and you know it. Now Dion has stars in his eyes, imagining himself as Prime Minister Dion, and is going for it. Screw the country. He couldn't care less. He's after power. This is for him, not the country. Same as Layton.

Harper has lost the confidence of the Opposition. Harper has taken the issue of the party money off the table. He still doesn't inspire confidence. Maybe he will ask the Opposition what they would like to see in the bill. Instead he has been acting like the cock of the walk and said "no compromise!"

And if you think Dion once he's prime minister is going to gracefully give way to Ignatieff or Rae you really are a fool.

At the moment, I don't think they can even be in a new cabinet if they are running for leadership.

[jdobbin]

Hmm, and the front runner is Igantieff and the NDP hate him, so they'll veto him as leader. Gee, who will they permit you Liberals to put in as leader?

Bob Rae!

I doubt either will be leader. Can't hold any cabinet level position as long as they are in the leadership.

Rae will do for Canada in this election what he did for Ontario in the last one.

Actually, I think John Mccallum has the best chance of sitting as Acting PM.

Edited November 28, 2008 by jdobbin

[Smallc]

Actually, I think John Mccallum has the best chance of sitting as Acting PM>

Now that I would support.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Smallc

[jdobbin]

Ah yes, the old left wing solution to all problems. RAISE TAXES!

The old right wing one is go into deficit just as they did with Mulroney.

And just as we're entering a recession too. Good idea!

Take money out of people's hands - so they can't spend it - and spend it ourselves! Cause we'll spend it more wisely!

Of course, all those infrastructure jobs are temporary, and disappear the instant the money isn't there. Meanwhile the jobs you destroy by increasing taxation were permanent ones.

Didn't say that the tax measure was going to happen.

Since Harper says that a deficit is going to happen anyway, spend money to make money. Employed people pay income taxes.

Infrastructure has always been temporary jobs. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be done or that it is useful. Harper has been mulling over the same strategy. Stop mulling. Do it.

[madmax]

Hmm, and the front runner is Igantieff and the NDP hate him, so they'll veto him as leader. Gee, who will they permit you Liberals to put in as leader?

Bob Rae!

Rae will do for Canada in this election what he did for Ontario in the last one.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. LPC members and upper echelon members like Bob Rae. Members of the NDP hate and despise him. However, even the upper echelons and those attached to Chretian and Bobs brother are not stupid enough to back Mr Rae under the current climate, as it is not politically wise, nor can Mr Rae ever win the Party Leadership under any circumstance.

You will have to save Mr Rae for the show fear factor as he is a neutered politician to anyone but the media.

[jdobbin]

No one on the planet who knows anything about economics agrees with you, of course.

Not that Harper listens to what economists say. The list was very long on those that didn't support the GST cut.

[Smallc]

Not that Harper listens to what economists say. The list was very long on those that didn't support the GST cut.

The list of those who didn't agree with yesterdays statement and the information and decisions within was almost as long.

[fellowtraveller]

'Infrastructure'

Isn't that a French word meaning 'send billions to Quebec'?

[Smallc]

'Infrastructure'

Isn't that a French word meaning 'send billions to Quebec'?

Maybe, since thats what they should be doing. They should be sending more money to every province to keep this country from stalling as export markets weaken.