Learn French, Quebec orders immigrants

[AngusThermopyle]

Get a life Dancer and stay out of my threads.

i didn't know we could tell people to stay out of threads we'd started. Cool!

[guyser]

i didn't know we could tell people to stay out of threads we'd started. Cool!

it is one way to stay ignorant I suppose. Someone has sand in their mangina again I guess since facts always get him in a kerfuffle.

Anyhow..........

I have a question, if one moved to Que from Ont , say for instance me, how would the Que govt deal with my lack of French?

I suppose I could prove to them that I can read it, in fact I am pretty good at that, but I dont understand much of what I can read.

So, would the pledge be brought to me for signing?

(Of course I would answer the door in full Leaf sweater , hat , blue tattoo on the cheek)

Edited November 4, 2008 by guyser

[AngusThermopyle]

I have a question, if one moved to Que from Ont , say for instance me, how would the Que govt deal with my lack of French?

I suppose I could prove to them that I can read it, in fact I am pretty good at that, but I dont understand much of what I can read.

So, would the pledge be brought to me for signing?

Actually I was wondering about that very question myself. If one did not speak French and had no desire to learn it but was a Canadian citizen would they be barred from living in Quebec. Personally I don't think they would, they most definitly shouldn't be, but I don't know if they would. Or would they be forced to learn French?

[Wild Bill]

Actually I was wondering about that very question myself. If one did not speak French and had no desire to learn it but was a Canadian citizen would they be barred from living in Quebec. Personally I don't think they would, they most definitly shouldn't be, but I don't know if they would. Or would they be forced to learn French?

Once again no one seems to want to say that the emperor has no clothes, Angus! So I will.

These type of laws are simply a form of racism, pure and simple. The Pequistes can bleat all they like about protecting their culture. That's not the issue. The issue is really about their methods in achieving their goals. Some can be positive and some negative but one can't do anything one likes with the blanket excuse of cultural protection.

It's just another racist tactic from the "pur laine", pure and simple.

[Mr.Canada]

it is one way to stay ignorant I suppose. Someone has sand in their mangina again I guess since facts always get him in a kerfuffle.

Anyhow..........

I have a question, if one moved to Que from Ont , say for instance me, how would the Que govt deal with my lack of French?

I suppose I could prove to them that I can read it, in fact I am pretty good at that, but I dont understand much of what I can read.

So, would the pledge be brought to me for signing?

(Of course I would answer the door in full Leaf sweater , hat , blue tattoo on the cheek)

I lived in Quebec for a year at one point and I was forced to learn French. If I didn't I wouldn't be able to work. If you cannot speak French don't expect to get a job other than a labourer position. I'm sure there are exceptions but for the most part it's true. Even Anglos in Quebec speak French.

I have traveled this country from coast to coast to coast as I backpacked a lot in my youth so I speak from experience. Once people start traveling, they start seeing things around them differently and stop swallowing what the TV says whole as those people who do travel have experienced it.

Edited November 4, 2008 by Mr.Canada

[guyser]

Once again no one seems to want to say that the emperor has no clothes, Angus! So I will.

These type of laws are simply a form of racism, pure and simple. The Pequistes can bleat all they like about protecting their culture. That's not the issue. The issue is really about their methods in achieving their goals. Some can be positive and some negative but one can't do anything one likes with the blanket excuse of cultural protection.

It's just another racist tactic from the "pur laine", pure and simple.

Hmm...

Racism? Not so sure about that.

I feel it is done with culture in mind. The methods may suck , but how else can they do it?

My point is this. The world of commerce is all about protection. We see it in food commmerce and wine commerce all the time.(hang in with me here)

Olive Oil, Champagne,Truffles,Vegemite (ok j/k) all have regional qualifications. You cant have for instance Parmagianno Reggiano (Parmesan cheese) unless it comes from that region and is stamped.That goes to the culture and traditions of the region and they want to protect that. Same as with lots of products.It ensures the integrity of that product for the future.

So, Que does the same with language. (Leave aside all the other problems , equalization, welfare tit suckers and so on.)

I am not getting the concern here. I see a problem in that there are "people" and not products at issue here, but on the surface of it, I see a valid reason for them wanting to ensure the culture.This country sure would be more boring without it, not that I want to pay for it mind you, but it is a great part of what is Canadian.

[M.Dancer]

Actually I was wondering about that very question myself. If one did not speak French and had no desire to learn it but was a Canadian citizen would they be barred from living in Quebec. Personally I don't think they would, they most definitly shouldn't be, but I don't know if they would. Or would they be forced to learn French?

Franchment....il ya beaucoup des gen qui vive en Quebec qui parle pas Francias.....

your kis would go to school in english.....hardly any difference at all.....in time you would start ordering gros mols at the brasserie, buy milk at the depanneur and maybe even wacth le bye bye on new year's eve.

[M.Dancer]

Once again no one seems to want to say that the emperor has no clothes, Angus! So I will.

These type of laws are simply a form of racism, pure and simple. The Pequistes can bleat all they like about protecting their culture. That's not the issue. The issue is really about their methods in achieving their goals. Some can be positive and some negative but one can't do anything one likes with the blanket excuse of cultural protection.

It's just another racist tactic from the "pur laine", pure and simple.

Nice to blame the PQ but it is the Liberals who are in power.

[blueblood]

Hmm...

Racism? Not so sure about that.

I feel it is done with culture in mind. The methods may suck , but how else can they do it?

My point is this. The world of commerce is all about protection. We see it in food commmerce and wine commerce all the time.(hang in with me here)

Olive Oil, Champagne,Truffles,Vegemite (ok j/k) all have regional qualifications. You cant have for instance Parmagianno Reggiano (Parmesan cheese) unless it comes from that region and is stamped.That goes to the culture and traditions of the region and they want to protect that. Same as with lots of products.It ensures the integrity of that product for the future.

So, Que does the same with language. (Leave aside all the other problems , equalization, welfare tit suckers and so on.)

I am not getting the concern here. I see a problem in that there are "people" and not products at issue here, but on the surface of it, I see a valid reason for them wanting to ensure the culture.This country sure would be more boring without it, not that I want to pay for it mind you, but it is a great part of what is Canadian.

The problem is the gov't force feeding culture. I have a big problem with that. If I want to set up a farm in Quebec, it would be in my best interests to learn french, however that is MY responsibility and it should not be legislated mandatory. It is futile for the gov't to force feed culture, that is up to the times and people. Remember the stink of SSM brought up in parliament, lets face it, it was a social conservative attempt to force feed their culture on the rest of the country, and it was defeated and rightfully so. Lets say a big part of Toronto culture is being a Leaf's fan. Let's also say city council legislated that all newcomers are forced to become leaf's fans. A habs fan wouldn't appreciate that too much.

A big part of rural culture is christianity. Should rural Canadians town council's pass laws mandating all new comers become christians because "rural culture" is "threatened"? An outsider might pick up something based on Christianity to fit in, but by no means should it be forced on him.

It is far easier for the gov't to influence economics with policy and taxes, and those are done to ensure success. Gov't has a very difficult time ensuring success of a culture and this has been proven throughout history. Economics rarely change, culture changes all the time.

[M.Dancer]

The problem is the gov't force feeding culture. I have a big problem with that. If I want to set up a farm in Quebec, it would be in my best interests to learn french, however that is MY responsibility and it should not be legislated mandatory.

And as a Canadian, you would be free not to learn.

As a foreign immigrant...?

[guyser]

The problem is the gov't force feeding culture.

I see that, and it is a conundrum in my thinking. BUt how else do they ensure the longevity of that language. I suppose a well thought out campaign for pushing it as opposed to legislating it is valid. And in fact by writing that, I see that would be far superior an option. After all, my "cheese " analogy fails that test since to call it parmesan means it came from that region, but to be a Quebecois means you came from that area, english speaking or not. But it does not pass the "unique" test.(more later)

Remember the stink of SSM brought up in parliament, lets face it, it was a social conservative attempt to force feed their culture on the rest of the country, and it was defeated and rightfully so. Lets say a big part of Toronto culture is being a Leaf's fan. Let's also say city council legislated that all newcomers are forced to become leaf's fans. A habs fan wouldn't appreciate that too much.

Lets not go too far down this path. SSM was for equality for all, not force feeding. As for the Leafs, dont give Mayor Miller anymore ideas, he is dumb enough to try that one.

A big part of rural culture is christianity. Should rural Canadians town council's pass laws mandating all new comers become christians because "rural culture" is "threatened"? An outsider might pick up something based on Christianity to fit in, but by no means should it be forced on him.

I see what you say, but my only reply is that there is nothing "unique " about being a rural christian. The "unique" test is one applied to food commerce and copyright. That is what I was getting at in my ealrier post.

[Wild Bill]

Nice to blame the PQ but it is the Liberals who are in power.

This started LONG before Charest became a Liberal! Yet even the Liberals now find it politically expedient to cater to this attitude.

Ends do NOT justify means! As a society, HOW we go about attaining goals reveals our true character!

The "pur laine" movement can be pretty ugly. It was some Quebecois fellow workers who first explained this to me. They were of Irish and Italian descent. Although their families had been in Quebec for over a hundred years to a die hard Pequiste they were still "second class" and not "true" Quebecois.

Hey, have you forgotten Parizeau on the night of his loss telling us all it was the fault of anglo money and immigrants?

[M.Dancer]

This started LONG before Charest became a Liberal! Yet even the Liberals now find it politically expedient to cater to this attitude.

Hey, have you forgotten Parizeau on the night of his loss telling us all it was the fault of anglo money and immigrants?

Before 101 was Bill 22...before Parizeau was Bourassa...every premier has enacted some language legislation....wanting immigrrnts to speak an offcial language makes sense in any language

[blueblood]

And as a Canadian, you would be free not to learn.

As a foreign immigrant...?

It should be up to him to learn one of the two official languges, not gov't having a gun to his head. In Quebec, he is forced to learn one language, an even bigger gun to his head.

[blueblood]

I see that, and it is a conundrum in my thinking. BUt how else do they ensure the longevity of that language. I suppose a well thought out campaign for pushing it as opposed to legislating it is valid. And in fact by writing that, I see that would be far superior an option. After all, my "cheese " analogy fails that test since to call it parmesan means it came from that region, but to be a Quebecois means you came from that area, english speaking or not. But it does not pass the "unique" test.(more later)

Lets not go too far down this path. SSM was for equality for all, not force feeding. As for the Leafs, dont give Mayor Miller anymore ideas, he is dumb enough to try that one.

I see what you say, but my only reply is that there is nothing "unique " about being a rural christian. The "unique" test is one applied to food commerce and copyright. That is what I was getting at in my ealrier post.

We get Quebec is unique. What we don't get is why they have to pass laws inhibiting freedom of expression. They have a strong culture and a large portion already speak french and will continue to do so. Why pass silly laws when they don't have to? A great majority of Canadians aren't going to have an SSM, why was there a need to try and pass a silly law regarding that?

[guyser]

We get Quebec is unique. What we don't get is why they have to pass laws inhibiting freedom of expression. They have a strong culture and a large portion already speak french and will continue to do so. Why pass silly laws when they don't have to? A great majority of Canadians aren't going to have an SSM, why was there a need to try and pass a silly law regarding that?

But they arent passing "freedom of expression" laws. You are free to express in both languages.Their culture is strong because and in spite of these laws.

As for SSM, that was to balance a host of inequaties.

If I dont have kids, why pass that silly law about paying school taxes?

[Mr.Canada]

I lived in Quebec for a year at one point and I was forced to learn French. If I didn't I wouldn't be able to work. If you cannot speak French don't expect to get a job other than a labourer position. I'm sure there are exceptions but for the most part it's true. Even Anglos in Quebec speak French.

I have traveled this country from coast to coast to coast as I backpacked a lot in my youth so I speak from experience. Once people start traveling, they start seeing things around them differently and stop swallowing what the TV says whole as those people who do travel have experienced it.

Oh I'd like to add that any laws Quebec passes are good for us conservatives as they will create a precident for future use by conservatives who wish to pass similar laws. Quebec will again show us anglos the way to protect ourselves from political correctness gone wild. Vive Quebec, Vive la nation!

[blueblood]

But they arent passing "freedom of expression" laws. You are free to express in both languages.Their culture is strong because and in spite of these laws.

As for SSM, that was to balance a host of inequaties.

If I dont have kids, why pass that silly law about paying school taxes?

Wrong!!! Bill 101 was passed. If I set up business in Quebec, my sign HAS to be in French. Quebec was taken to the UN over this kerfuffell and had to introduce some "compromises". No such law would ever be allowed to pass in the rest of Canada without controversy.

What inequities? SSM ammendments not passing has ensured equity. Gays can marry and the churches don't have to perform cermonies end of story.

As for school taxes, Did you go to school? Pay the bill.

[M.Dancer]

Wrong!!! Bill 101 was passed. If I set up business in Quebec, my sign HAS to be in French.

It can alos be bilingual or if it is a political sign or just a non commercial sign, unilingual english.

[blueblood]

It can alos be bilingual or if it is a political sign or just a non commercial sign, unilingual english.

French has to be bigger though and noticably bigger. What you are stating was the compromise of Quebec's little adventure to the UN.

Why not make signs in any language you want? It should be the lack of business forcing Quebecers to make signs in French, not legislation.

[M.Dancer]

French has to be bigger though and noticably bigger. What you are stating was the compromise of Quebec's little adventure to the UN.

Why not make signs in any language you want? It should be the lack of business forcing Quebecers to make signs in French, not legislation.

I believe that was the case even before the UN. I was still living in Quebec when 101 became law.

[blueblood]

I believe that was the case even before the UN. I was still living in Quebec when 101 became law.

Regardless of the fact it is a silly law and does impede a person's freedom of expression. No where else in Canada would a law like this be allowed to pass.

[Smallc]

Regardless of the fact it is a silly law and does impede a person's freedom of expression.

It does not in any way.

[blueblood]

It does not in any way.

Start up a business and have your sign in only Ukrainian and see what happens.

[Mr.Canada]

Start up a business and have your sign in only Ukrainian and see what happens.

Don't move to Quebec if you don't like it, simple. The law isn't changing so go away please.